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Tips for Countering Hold W?
I play a lot of Deathslinger, and he gets bodied by Hold W. At a certain range (about 10+ or 12+ meters), survivors can juke your shot on reaction to the sound of you firing. So you have to hold W to catch up and get in 8m or so range before you can land a shot.
Takes about 10 seconds or so to get into 8m range if they start holding W at exactly 12m, and a whopping 40 seconds to get into 8m range if they start running at 24m. Keep in mind that we're just talking about how close you have to be before survivors can no longer juke your shot on reaction.
Any tips, perks, or strategies for making Hold W less viable?
Edit: Play XYZ killer is NOT a helpful tip. There's a reason why the devs don't listen to us, and it's because it's very clear most of the community lacks any sort of capacity for critical thinking.
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Not really unless you're clown and plant a slowdown bottle in advance beyond the loop. The whole formula for chases is just... not all there. You cant have less resources or anti loop killers become too powerful or you have to make them feel horrible to play and you cant keep them cause people will just shift W.
This is where I think blight comes in at somewhere good in the middle. You can hold W against him to 1-2 other tiles if you successfully dodge his power depending on the amount of rushes you count which is easy.
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that's the neat part, you can't... before his low terror radious paired with monitor and abuse was an excellent way to greatly soften up this problem. but you know, devs nerfed that poor killer into the ground (before the nerf he was my main) cause his 1vs was "unfair and too much strong" without taking into account that it was the only good thing about him (a 4.4 without map pressure/passive slowdown like the one that pinhead has and he couldn't sniping people like huntress from the other side of the map or behind a pallet neeeded those nerfs after all, he was too much strong /s)
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Slinger is actually still pretty insane in terms of power, the biggest part of the nerf was the terror radius change. I think he has Nurse levels of chase power, but it requires actual skill and predictions to get value (Nurse takes no skill, you can't change my mind).
If you miss M&A Slinger, you should try out Plaything Slinger. You either get stealth hits or free slowdown, so it's a very good perk on him. But for sure, stealth perks + StBfL makes Hold W pretty much impossible since you're getting a down before they can get distance.
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Throw hatchets.
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Well, you are playing Deathslinger. at a lot of loops the only thing you can do is hold w.
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Hard disagree, but I haven't played against a good Deathslinger in like two years.
If the tile is tall enough, you can crouch on reaction to him entering ADS. If it's short, you slam the pallet down ASAP to force shots into being chain breaks only. Any tile with tall walls you can focus more on just keeping LOS broken so he can't make a shot, and only taking vaults if LOS is broken.
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There’s nothing you can do. Waste time chasing the hold W or just hit and leave while they reset at the CoH and still lose.
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That’s deathslinger’s main counterplay so the best you can do is try to cut them off and only shoot when you know you’ll hit the shot
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My favorite to is to aim dead ahead and walk slowly in a straight line until they just walk into my shot xD
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You can counter it by playing strong killers
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Yeah that’s quite effective especially since he moves faster during his ads now. Still has a hard time dealing with W gamers though
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Hold W stronger, you need to pierce your kerboard.
Now serious, no idea i feel like poop when i play a low tier killer and i need to hold W and hope xD
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You play Spirit
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You play Blight or Nurse with range addons. That's it.
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>There's a reason why the devs don't listen to us, and it's because it's very clear most of the community lacks any sort of capacity for critical thinking.
Clap.
Clap.
Clap.
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Never chase survivors.
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Play a mobility based killer that's about it
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Survivors: Im gonna hold W forever!
Survivors: Why do we see so many Blights?
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A couple things you can do on all killers.
Check to see how greedy they are. Briefly cycle off as if you're giving up and then whip back around and try to catch them cheating back towards the gen they were on. I do this all the time with Nurse. It can gain back the distance you lost to Sprint Burst if nothing else.
I'm always playing for a 3 or 4 gen unless I have a crazy good start or I can teleport. It doesn't eliminate holding W, but it reduces what they gain from it and turns it into a stall. It also forces them to position poorly or rotate into their teammates if you approach from the right direction. So yes, you can hold W, but you're going to have to actually think about it or potentially throw the game.
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Probably the best strategic advice is know when to break off a chase or not take a chase in the first place. Sometimes you’re better off not chasing someone who is running into a remote area 20 meters away if it will take you too long to catch them and should instead ignore that survivor and go after someone who is actively on gens instead. Picking your battles based on what’s going on mapwide among all the survivors is at least as important as actually being good in a chase.
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Why should a killer be able to counter his counter?
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Also, (and I say this with some irony), play Myers or Ghostface. Myers with Dead Rabbit and M&A means a 6m terror radius at EWII without being in a chase, which is just large enough to let survivors know that they just got hit. They'll also be confused and jumping on and off of gens all match (Ruin/Undying helps here) since your TR is randomly going to jump around from 6 to 40m, depending on what your EW level is and whether or not you're in a chase.
Ghostie's buffs help him a lot, but the increased ability to reveal him can be annoying (but also function as a poor man's survivor finder and can be a serious boon in the late game).
In general, with any killer, just adopt M1 tactics. The way you counter "hold W" when you're a Michael, a Sadako, or a Ghostface (and got spotted from far away) is to loop mercilessly. Eat those pallets, cycle through those windows a dozen times until the entity blocks them, and then take your kill. Sometimes, there isn't a better or easier way, and you'll thank yourself when the survivor is hooked and half the pallets in the map are gone in the process.
It also helps to know which chases to engage in. In every team, there is usually at least one god-level looper and at least one weak link. You're going to have to go after the god-looper eventually if you want to win, but pick them as your first real chase and you'll spend 5 gens playing with them at the jungle gym. Instead, find the weakest link and commit to that person. When they're gone/incapacitated, it drags the entire team down, and the decent looper(s) will have to leave gens to come and rescue them, putting them in a vulnerable position where holding W can't help...
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I use Monitor, Nurses, and Sloppy besides BBQ. It allows me to get close to land shots and interrupt healing. Obviously no gen defense but I usually kill them all by the end by denying heals.
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While much easier said than done, you want to avoid following survivors to where they want to go - try and herd them into worse areas (or catch them while they're forced into suboptimal pathing to reach the better areas and then disengage). When it comes to avoiding the hold W strat, you need to be thinking not just about the immediate loop but which adjacent tiles are worse. If you're playing a killer who is primarily countered by holding W, anticipate survivors doing so and loop in a way that maximizes your visual information so you can catch those disengages and adjust to stay on their tail.
It's daunting on paper, but if you make a habit of thinking ahead, you'll be surprised far less often and open yourself up to a world of reads and mindgames that involve more than just hiding your red stain around corners.
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Get better at predicting where survivors are going to juke for long range shots. You can absolutely hit shots at 12m, you just need to anticipate where they're going to go.
A more general tip if they're holding W often is don't try and mindgame tiles, some survivors will start running at the first opportunity that they break LOS to try and make extra distance.
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The greed check is a good one. I haven't done it in a while, but I remember it being very effective.
Indeed! Although, I overdo this a lot and end up dropping too many chases in a row if I find people back to back that can reach ultra-safe structures. With faster killers or with info perks, it's easier to tell which survivors are where and which gens you can interrupt.
The edit was more directed to the half-dozen people that just said "play my main instead of whatever killer you're playing" instead of giving helpful advice. Stealth makes Hold W way less effective, so I often run at least one stealth perk. Also yeah, sometimes brute forcing a hit is absolutely the play if it means you can get an meaningful down.
That's good advice, I need to drop my 3D chess set and pick up a 4D chess set. I'll try to think more about the entire chase as a whole rather than just whatever tile we're looping. Running I'm All Ears is a decent alternative to having superior game sense, however.
Indeed! I have no trouble hitting long range shots, and I'm pretty good at hitting those 17.9m shots on my good days. I'm mostly having trouble with highly attentive survivors with fast reflexes. I'll try predicting the juke direction next time I play against someone like that.
Break LOS and hold W is generally my strat as survivor, and it works a few times in a row before the killer starts punishing it. I need to find a good Litmus Test mindgame for quickly gauging a survivor's skill level and playstyle.
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"That's good advice, I need to drop my 3D chess set and pick up a 4D chess set. I'll try to think more about the entire chase as a whole rather than just whatever tile we're looping. Running I'm All Ears is a decent alternative to having superior game sense, however."
I'm All Ears is terrific! I had a "Nonstop Nemesis" build I ran for a long time that was BBQ + All Ears + Lethal Pursuit + Hysteria that was dedicated to starting a chase as soon as the match loaded in and being in chase until the game ends. All Ears on Nemesis in particular is choice for sneaking surprise M2 hits through vaults as survivors very frequently double-back past them after vaulting. I eventually traded Hysteria for Hex: Plaything, and I'm considering No Way Out for it now. Obvious gap is the total absence of gen control, but honestly I enjoy chasing on Nemesis to the point that I contentedly cede the objective control game just to keep scootin'
That said, All Ears is a terrific tool for remaining sticky in chase. In addition to the immediate value, it'll help you sharpen your sense of how survivors route.
And as for more intentional pushing survivors around to where you want them to go - the most common consideration I make when approaching a gen is which direction I want them to see me coming from.
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I also like to run mostly chase perks, hah. If I'm playing a low-tier though, I'll usually bring three slowdown perks so I have enough time to turn half the map into a dead zone.
Forcing survivors to unhook and pick up slugs is also a form of gen control, but only if you can keep up the pressure and get constant downs.
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One of the strats I use is to keep popping up ADS and lowering it so they keep juking back and forth. Don't do it so much that it slows you down much but the juking slows them down. They'll either:
A) get close enough to M1 them from them slowing themselves down or not watching where they are going.
or B) they'll ignore the ADS and run straight where you should be able to get a shot.
If neither A nor B works because they are too aware and can dodge shots, are too good at utilizing terrain, or just have too much distance, that's not the chase you want to be in. Find someone else and hope you can catch the other guy off guard later in a more favorable situation.
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