No Mither
I think No Mither as a whole is conceptually flawed. It all around is more of a handicap than a perk really.
It brings you down a healthstate permanently, and it's only real strength disregarding other perk synergies, is getting up from a downed state, which can be summarized as a far worse and situational selfcare.
Not only that but it requires at least 2 other perks from 2 different survivors to even be remotely effective.
But none of that will matter, because the general gameflow wouldn't allow you to make use of the perk because 99% of the time the killer will pick you right up and hook you.
I think no matter what kind of buffs the devs give this perk, it will always remain a detriment to those that equip it.
Perks that require you to be injured are not strong enough to make a build around it and carry the risk of a permanent injured state.
The devs need to rework this perk, but the perk in itself is so flawed that they would need to make a new perk entirely.
Comments
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For all those people out there, no one cares it’s meant to be hard mode, it should get a buff. If devs says killer was unbalanced because it’s hard mode, you’d flip your #########.
Anyway, I suggest 100% noise reduction, not 50%, 10% faster recovery, 25% crawling. Recover while crawling. No aura to killer while downed. No injured music. And less body sway from being injured.
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@Jack11803 said:
For all those people out there, no one cares it’s meant to be hard mode, it should get a buff. If devs says killer was unbalanced because it’s hard mode, you’d flip your #########.Anyway, I suggest 100% noise reduction, not 50%, 10% faster recovery, 25% crawling. Recover while crawling. No aura to killer while downed. No injured music. And less body sway from being injured.
See, now we're getting to the problematic issues.
The buffs you suggested (recover while crawling, faster recover, full noise surpression, faster crawl) all exist already as seperate perks.
Even then having all of those perks combined into one still doesn't seem worth being down one healthstate.
And there's still the issue of the gameflow having Killers pick up immediate downed targets, making the self recovery for the most part absolutely useless, unless you meet that one once in a blue moon killer that actually leaves you alone.0 -
@StickyCheese said:
The buffs you suggested (recover while crawling, faster recover, full noise surpression, faster crawl) all exist already as seperate perks.I don't see how that's problematic.
Even then having all of those perks combined into one still doesn't seem worth being down one healthstate.
No one said it was necessary to combine all the perks. Iron Will, Tenacity, and Unbreakable are perfectly fine to exist standalone. If it still isn't worth it, then more can be suggested. Again, not problematic. These changes would make No Mither more viable and less pointless than it is now.
And there's still the issue of the gameflow having Killers pick up immediate downed targets, making the self recovery for the most part absolutely useless, unless you meet that one once in a blue moon killer that actually leaves you alone.
So? It's far better than the buttload of nothing it does right now.
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Not all perks are entirely beneficial, but exist as gameplay alternatives. Laurie gets a risk-vs-reward in being able to see the killer, but can be seen in exchange. That's why her other perk can limit the killer's vision on her, granting her a significant advantage in certain situations. No Mither is also such a perk, in that you get a few benefits at the cost of some great penalties. I love that other options like this exist in the game, and wish more people would consider using them as they seem to have it pretty easy with their friends/strong perks/etc. If you're really good, adjust the challenge so you can feel an accomplishment at winning.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gewbR10ekeoto anyone who still complain about no mither... rly?
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@Coriander said:
Not all perks are entirely beneficial, but exist as gameplay alternatives.It's so damn wonderful that over half of the perks in the game are near worthless and we have an endless meta of the same handful every single game outside of Rank 15-20.
We can't buff Wraith and Freddy because they are "GaMePLaY ALterNAtIvEs". Now imagine that.
I can't believe people ######### and moan about DS, SC, and SB and then clutch their pearls when anyone suggests buffs to any of the twenty or so crap tier perks in the game.
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@Visionmaker said:
It's so damn wonderful that over half of the perks in the game are near worthless and we have an endless meta of the same handful every single game outside of Rank 15-20.We can't buff Wraith and Freddy because they are "GaMePLaY ALterNAtIvEs". Now imagine that.
I can't believe people ######### and moan about DS, SC, and SB and then clutch their pearls when anyone suggests buffs to any of the twenty or so crap tier perks in the game.
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@Visionmaker said:
@StickyCheese said:
The buffs you suggested (recover while crawling, faster recover, full noise surpression, faster crawl) all exist already as seperate perks.I don't see how that's problematic.
Even then having all of those perks combined into one still doesn't seem worth being down one healthstate.
No one said it was necessary to combine all the perks. Iron Will, Tenacity, and Unbreakable are perfectly fine to exist standalone. If it still isn't worth it, then more can be suggested. Again, not problematic. These changes would make No Mither more viable and less pointless than it is now.
And there's still the issue of the gameflow having Killers pick up immediate downed targets, making the self recovery for the most part absolutely useless, unless you meet that one once in a blue moon killer that actually leaves you alone.
So? It's far better than the buttload of nothing it does right now.
That's a poor philosophy to go by. Most of Freddy's perk are ''better than nothing'' but that means jack when there are FAR better choices to pick from.
I don't think bloating the perk with several effects from other already existing ones is the way to go,
especially when my main issue is that the perk's mere concept, not it's numbers and parameters, but the concept of it.
No mither aims to make the Injured state your healthy state and the downed state your new injured state from which you can recover yourself. But killers in 9/10 cases pick you up right away when downed, so why go with this perk when you can run self-care, and optionally not heal yourself if you have any perks that require you to be injured.0 -
@Coriander said:
Not all perks are entirely beneficial, but exist as gameplay alternatives. Laurie gets a risk-vs-reward in being able to see the killer, but can be seen in exchange. That's why her other perk can limit the killer's vision on her, granting her a significant advantage in certain situations. No Mither is also such a perk, in that you get a few benefits at the cost of some great penalties. I love that other options like this exist in the game, and wish more people would consider using them as they seem to have it pretty easy with their friends/strong perks/etc. If you're really good, adjust the challenge so you can feel an accomplishment at winning.See in the case of Laurie, she has perks that have a synergy with her other perks or like you said, mitigate the negatives.
How does David fair here. The only perk of his that works with No Mither is Dead Hard. But DH is much better used without NM, which essentially gives you one free hit + the DH dodge instead of just the dodge.
And NM actively works against WGLF, since it denies him to ability to tank a hit for a teammate, 1 of 2 oppurtunities to make use of the perk at all.
The other perks that would boost NM effect are not his perks at all and the shared ones that require one to be injured are far to insignificant to run a build based on being permanently injured.1 -
I see your point, but perhaps that's just an added level of challenge for him? What if they add a survivor with three perks that do different things, and don't worth with each other (or, actually, prevent the use of each other?) You could get three different play styles from one survivor, although I feel they would better save that for three separate survivors, using ideas down the line instead of all at once.
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@StickyCheese said:
That's a poor philosophy to go by. Most of Freddy's perk are ''better than nothing'' but that means jack when there are FAR better choices to pick from.
I don't think bloating the perk with several effects from other already existing ones is the way to go, especially when my main issue is that the perk's mere concept, not it's numbers and parameters, but the concept of it.
No mither aims to make the Injured state your healthy state and the downed state your new injured state from which you can recover yourself. But killers in 9/10 cases pick you up right away when downed, so why go with this perk when you can run self-care, and optionally not heal yourself if you have any perks that require you to be injured.Buffing something incrementally until it is viable is a poor philosophy? That's pretty much the simplest way to do it without bludgeoning the game's balance.
I am not a fan of its concept either. However, I am open to any direction that chooses to buff weaker perks over obsessing over the overpowered ones. Buffs to weaker perks have been far and few in between, and if changing numbers will deliver these much needed changes without having to wait two more years, I think everyone should be on board.
A different forum member suggested additions to No Mither that increase survivability for chases, and obviously everyone has already suggested to remove indications of No Mither to the killer as it stands. While I much prefer a redesign, I think any step in the right direction should be made.
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I've always thought about DH being able to stun Killers if the survivor hits the Killer, almost like a Rugby tackle. But I think No Mither is just so poor due to the lack of survivability it has compared to being able to heal yourself without a medkit or sprinting away as fast as lightning. Perhaps they should add a new effect: an increased struggle rate. Think about it. Lore wise I can imagine King packing more of a punch than any of the tinier survivors. But gameplay wise it would make up for No Mither's initial lack of survivability. Though it might be a little unfun for Killer...0
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Only thing No Mither needs in my opinion is a survival bloodpoint bonus.
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I would like to buff No Mither in only one way to keep that "hard" mode concept: The noise reduction should be 100% at tier III and not 50%.
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@Jack11803 said:
For all those people out there, no one cares it’s meant to be hard mode, it should get a buff. If devs says killer was unbalanced because it’s hard mode, you’d flip your #########.Anyway, I suggest 100% noise reduction, not 50%, 10% faster recovery, 25% crawling. Recover while crawling. No aura to killer while downed. No injured music. And less body sway from being injured.
Devs clearly stated they made that perk for the sake of making survivor harder to play, which is very different than making killer harder to play, since the game REQUIRES killer, while it doesn't require you to pick no mither if you don't want to.
Also, devs are also aware that killer is hard mode anyway.
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buff no mither so they arent injured and can pick them self up everytime... then i would use it
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@xxaggieboyxx said:
buff no mither so they arent injured and can pick them self up everytime... then i would use itIt’d ruin the synergies then.
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The No Mither buff I think should exist is that you start out uninjured, but once you get hit once, you can’t be healed. You’d also not have the no heal icon next to your name so that the killer won’t know you’d have it (whether or not the survivors should see the icon, I’m not sure). This would add uncertainty to if the survivor has the perk, and it would still keep the perk’s original purpose; a hard mode with some added pluses.0
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I didn't realize there was another thread on No Mither, so I already made a new one (oops). Here's what I think though to make No Mither more balanced for BOTH killers and survivors while not taking away the vulnerability that No Mither gives:
https://youtu.be/Bqm948QKmyg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xkrDqzsoHs
