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We need a new anti-tunnel perk
DS just doesn't work well enough for anti-tunneling, it's more like a get a 5 second break from tunneling perk. Cause they just continue coming for your a-- even after you stunned them, so it's not the most useful.
Not sure what could be implemented that would be balanced but still be better for anti-tunneling. Does anyone have some thoughts on what you'd like to see?
Comments
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We don't need a new perk, we need baseline changes. Perks that address camping and tunneling are bandaid fixes. We need actual changes.
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Yes.
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I would say that survivors need a brain.
Kindred, gens, every killer genrushed in 4 minutes.
Just pull head out of your ass and use stuff you already have.
Edit: Why there even needs to be anti-tunnel perks btw? Give killers more anti gen perks then, blocking all generators for 3402582497 seconds, because getting genrushed is not fun either.
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Omg you're so right there are like no anti-gen perks. Like, if only there were perks that slowed gens, regressed them, or blocked them completely I mean omg I wish those existed-
Call of Brine, Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, Deadlock, Dying Light, Eruption, Grim Embrace, Pentimento, Ruin, Jolt, Merciless Storm, Oppression, Pop Goes the Weasel, Gift of Pain, Pain Resonance, Thanatophobia, & Thrilling Tremors: "Are we a joke to you?"
Borrowed Time, Breakdown, Decisive Strike, Guardian, Kinship, & Off the Record are the only survivor perks that you could classify as anti-tunnel. And I'm being so EXTREMELY generous with a few of those. One of which you'll only get ONE use out of per game. And two that requires someone else to be running them...
Ik we've got this whole "Omg survivor players bad grr" thing going on. But like let's be real here.
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Yes! I'd love some base stuff that address camping and tunneling. But everytime I see someone mention it people complain 😅
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Exactly exactly
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Because people automatically see unlimited BT/DS or Unbreakables. AL of these meta perks are band-aids for something......
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indeed
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implementing more anti-tunnel perks would just be creating multiple versions of dead hard, decisive strike(100% instant wiggle-off) and borrow-time(grant endurance-type perks).
A bigger question is, why should the killer spread hook-states evenly across entire team? There is currently no benefit for doing so. A survivor that is on 2 hook is same as a survivor that is on 0 hook in term of doing generators and healing. You just end up killing survivors slower as killer with no real reward at base-kit.
Killers would be less inclined to tunnel if they could win the game by not tunneling. Hex: Devour hope for example grants mori's after 5 unhooks have occured thereby disincentivizing tunneling as who get hooked does not matter. The killer get rewarded either way. Too bad the perk is a hex perk. Why do you think perks like pop goes weasel, pain: resonance and even BBQ get used? All of these perks activate when a survivor is hooked and reward the killer for hooking, so that the killer has less of a reason to directly tunnel and is more rewarded for hooking everyone.
If you watched 2022 anniversary stream. Matt.S stated that he(design team) aims to eliminate these clearly over-dominate perk trends. All the survivor perks mentioned are dominate perks so I can't imagine more anti-tunnel perks. The keyword eliminate sounds like developer team want less anti-tunnel perks, not more. You'll just have to wait and see for what changes after the 40 perk reworks have been revised.
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I mean I never play without DS. It might not always prevent me from getting tunneled, but it punishes the killer for tunneling, giving the rest of my team chance to do gens for longer.
Not only that, but it lets me reposition, so at least I can still have a fun chase if the killer chooses to keep tunneling me.
But what this game really needs are nerfs to camping and tunneling, and small buffs to the more fair and skillful gameplay of killers. BT basekit would be a great start, but I think that actually wouldn't be enough. There is so much the devs could do. Just increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 80 or 90 seconds would also go a long way against camping in particular. I am actually quite baffled it's still only 60 seconds.
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There is no way on earth you are for real, or?
Tunneling and camping are beyond unfun to deal with, especially if you "just rush gens". Not to mention that that doesn't even work a lot of the time. If the killer got an early down, you won't be able to get all gens finished in time. Solo survivors often don't have the coordination to counterplay camping and tunneling. And slap on NOED and Dead Lock and you are pretty much guaranteed a 2K, often a 3 or 4K for almost 0 skill.
It's honestly of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in an online video game at this point.
And killers already have many strong gen slowdown perks. Hell, pretty much every recent chapter has released a pretty good slowdown perk. Deadlock with Pinhead, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance with Artist, and Call of Brine with Sadako.
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There’s nothing “unfair” about hooking someone twice in a row, aka “tunneling”.
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Try Sprint Burst. It allows you to run away if you got unhooked in front of killer. That will make you an unappealing target compared to your rescuer.
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Why would a killer not tunnel one survivor? Is there anything that tells killers to go after someone else? You get nothing out of NOT tunneling. Even if survivors had 2 DS that would not stop killers from tunneling because it's literally the MOST effective playstyle they have. Survivors want to play as efficient as possible as well or do you start a gen and do it to 50% just to then go for the next gen and repeat that for no reason other then to make the killers match more enjoyable? Pretty sure no one does that. The logical way to play is to complete your objective in a way that it can't be taken away.
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It depends. If you manage to find the weak link first and manage to tunnel it out before multiple gens pop, then yes but all too often the killer just COMPLETELY throws the match cause he starts to tunnel, loses all gens, then face camps while the rest escapes and then has the balls to actually complain about 'gen rushing' - like dude if all you do is chase ONE survivor without ever giving a ######### about defending gens, guess what the other three people are gonna do in that time... LMAO
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The devs mentioned in their MMR update blog that they are currently working on tweaking the MMR calculations to treat survivors as a group for purposes of whether it goes up or down after a match. That way if, as in the scenario you described, you sacrificed yourself so that the other three can escape your MMR will go up instead of down.
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Get better at looping so if a killer is tunneling you then it works in your and your teams benefit.
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[I play both]
I agree about there is a game design problem : the game allows 3 hooks per survivor, but with camping and tunneling first hook = death for most of the time. And it's not fun.
Not camping, not tunneling is not a part of the gamedesign. And in my mind, there is the big problem. Fairplay and fun for every gamer is not implanted. The fun of 5 players is left at sole appreciation of the killer.
To counter this, survivors play swf and meta perk. And killers complain about that. So there are buffs of killer. So survivors play more meta perks and more swf. It some a vicious circle.
There could be a combo system, that gives extra points if you don't hook the same survivor twice in succession (except the last one), and gives extra if you go at x meters of the hooked one.
There could be a penality system, and gives less points if stay at y meters to the hooked one and you hook the same one twice in succession.
I have no hope that devs will control camp and tunnel. That's why i won't pay for any DLC as long as camp and tunnel are allowed. I think my wallet was my more powerfull means of expression.
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If the match goes like that there are multiple things wrong. First a very obvious distribution in the survivors's abilities to loop or an overall badly balanced match in terms of skill and second a killer that seemingly doesn't know what they're doing. I get it tunneling feels anything but fun when you have to go against it. But in this specific scenario you stated the survivors still win. I don't like to tunnel because I know how it feels to get tunneled but sometimes you just have no choice but to play more efficient or else you'll lose the match. And when I do tunnel there really is nothing you can do to stop me other than giving me free downs on othere people and help me get my objective done faster or trying to delay me for as long as you can. DS can only keep you save for so long. Same as pretty much every other second chance.
Also there is no way for the killers themselves to protect gens other than applying so much pressure on the survivors that they just can't sit on gens. Gen defense is always done by perks. There is pretty much no gen regress in the killers's base kits. Kicking a gen is pointless without a perk that supports it and just wastes the killer's time. It takes 80 seconds to complete a gen (actually less, considering you get skill checks, which speed it up) without any perks or items for that but it's 320 seconds (322 seconds considering you need to kick it first) to completely regress a gen which can be stopped in the blink of an eye.
Again I ask you, do you stop doing gens because the killer DOESN'T tunnel? Probably not, because why would you? So there will always be 3 people humping the gens while the killer chases the 4rth.
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As a survivor main, I see killers tunnel because either they just aren't good, or mostly because someone is being toxic. Players who spam their flashlight typically get tunneled. Overall, killers need more loving. Right now, the game is so unbalanced in favor of survivors. What I mean by this is that they can gen rush without gen rushing addons or perks. Also, survivors have plenty of movement speed increase perks, it's easy to get away from the killers. Then you have pallet loops, not that many anti-loop killers, just overall unbalance in our favor against killers. AND THEN we have a community where most players are survivor, and the majority get's favored out of fear of losing customers.
I can say right now, the Dredge is the right direction when it comes to killers. It's tough to play against. Anti-loop, map control and a passive ability that obscures vision. Most survivors are good against killers, until someone brings up tunnelling, camping and slugging. The only way to resolve this is to make tougher killers so they don't have to do these things to win a match here or there. AND I think the devs are looking in this direction (at least I hope). If they aren't, then we will continue to argue about tunnelling, slugging and camping, and how this side is better than the other side.
These are just my thoughts because I keep seeing the same discussions with little to no other thoughts or ideas outside of what was said here. I guess I'm trying to think outside the box on this one. Hope it helps.
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Sometimes tunneling is just the best play and there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day, it's just being chased by the killer, and complaining that its not "fair" that the killer isn't forced to take turns and cycle through all survivors until everyone has had their first hook.
A lot of the time people only think they're getting tunneled when they actually are not. Were you unhooked safely and the killer wasn't around but you just happen to bump into them later, or they just happen to check the generator you're on and no one was downed between then and now? That's not being tunneled, that's just happenstance.
You're on a hook, not a cross. Stop assuming every instance is malice when most of the time it's just bad luck. Survivors do not need more second chance perks. They just need to accept that getting hooked is part of the game, and there's nothing wrong with it.
Killer players seem to be the only ones shouldering the blame for survivors unhooking too quickly, unhooking unsafely, and throwing their own teammates under the bus out of pure selfishness and a laser focus on their own survival rather than the health of the team as a whole.
I'm tired of hearing survivors complain that they need more second chances as if all other things are equal and there's literally nothing else they could have done or a better play they could have made to have changed the outcome outside of another second chance perk.
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I definy tunneling as chase the unhooked one just after the unhooking. Not like every one has a first hook.
In general, it's a pack : camp + tunnel. Not just tunnel. So no too quickly unhooking, no real safety unhooking (BT didn't change mind of killer), no heal or being healed. Camp + tunnel isn't bad luck, it is the voluntee of the killer. Bad luck is to matchmaking with this kind of killer.
In mirror of your words, killer just need to accept that the second chance for a survivor is a part of the game, and there is nothing wrong with it.
Survivors don't need more second chances, they need a real second chance.
I've no complain of survivors, on the contrary, by playing fair in killer.
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On contrary, I stop gen to take a chase on my own risk if the killer doesn't tunnel. Even I have to cross the map to take the chase and let someone else unhook.
If the killer tunnels, why should I move ? This guy is already dead. I only lost my time to go on the hook. That's not the fun for the first and the second unhooken ones (and i could be in those ones), but the best chance for the two last ones to go out.
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