Killers and survivors need changes - Discussion and friendly post #stoptoxicity
I don't want this post to turn into Killers Vs Survivors so please keep this in mind and only add constructive comments.
Killers and survivors are at each others throats and it is getting less fun to play either role. For the most part players seem to want to completely thrash the other side as everyone seems to see 4 man killer game and 4 man escapes to be the point of the game and this creates pressure, stress and toxicity on both sides. In this post I want to cover some of my observations and add some positive tweaks I believe could be implemented that would make the game a bit more fun for both sides. I will cover tunneling, camping, looping, SWF/ Ranking, basic balances and the hatch/end game. I have a lot I can say about this game but I am going to get to the point and if you have any questions please discuss (no arguing with anyone).
1) Tunneling: This sucks. It is not fun to be tunneled and spend the most of the match running and being on a hook. A point can be made to just get good at running but then why are their stealth perks if this is the case; thus please let that comment not be stated because we are now all aware that some in the community are able to do this.
Solutions: Killers don't get a notification when you unhook/cobe (maybe even not see hooked survivors auras - this could be an added benefit to deerstalker) - preventing tunneling and giving more time to escape, as the HUD would still tell the killer this has happened it becomes down to the Killer managing his HUD to be aware of this. Survivors who are unhooked her a slight speed boost as if they were hit - you are down 1 health state and have no momentum and often kills will go for you over the guy saving you.
2 Camping: I don't know how anyone can play like this, the fact is this happens a lot and killers can get two or three kills this way because survivors know what this is like and more often than not go for the save.
Solutions: While in x number of meters to the killer/ in the killers sights (like the same way Spine chill works) the survivors hook time does not decrease or decreases slower the longer they spend in range. This can't be a get stacks while they are in range and then loose them by leaving for 10 seconds, these need to accumulate and stay for the duration of that hook. Players also need some form of boldness points bonus to be generated by tunneling and camping for example "killers favorite". This will make it a larger chunk of the game and they will loose all other points; player has more time on hook but they do have the option to try cobe and sacrifice themselves. Lastly I think if the killer stands still for too long they should be reviled to other players. ######### Insidious.
3 Looping: Looping is fun for one side but can be so frustrating when you are a killer. I think this is made worse by the fact you can trade hits through a pallet stun. I see this is very unfair when I am survivor but when I play killer I know that without this people would rarely go down.
Solution: Bring back vacuum pallets at half way through the pallet for less trades. Make pallets have a health bar that the more it is jumped over the faster it will be to break. Pallets are the hardest thing to balance, I don't know if this is fully the right move but I want to get the ball rolling here so please discuss and put our minds together.
SWF and ranking: I think SWF giving you coms is a damn good advantage and killers need something to balance it. Rank means nothing in this game as there are only one off achievements. I think that the higher your rank you should get a bonus to blood points. For a guess of how this would work is ever rank grants you 0.1 increase in BP after the game (this is a made up number I don''t know it it should be this high). Adding to this I think a SWF game should create additional length in opening gates, doing gens, cleansing totems and damage to gens on failed checks. I don't think saving and healing should be changed in this scenario. Might help, again this is the ball rolling.
The Hatch and End Game: The hatch can never be removed as the lore of this game is there is hope for the survivors. What I think need to happen is that if a survivor does not do a gen or get to the hatch in a amount of time (e.g. 2 minutes) it closes until they do another gen. Also if they are the last survivor alive and they have not done a gen or left in 5 minutes they get birds. I find in a lot of my games the survivors will just hide when it comes to the hatch and I have to just leave it. More than once I've killed 3 before they have done one gen and 25 minutes went past of me searching the entire map and the survivor didn't even try do a gen, they just hid so I would quit. This added in with hatch stand offs aren't fair. Tbh, if you killed all other survivors you probably deserve the four man. No more rules of "You have to let the last one go.'
Some balances: Qualities of life that I think need to go.
- NOED does not work on abilities related hits, so coming out of invisible as the wraith with the speed buff and spirit phase hit. Abilities like there are often free hits once you know your killer, NOED carries too hard. I should not be so game changing since the totems are now much harder to find. (I would actually like this to just say delete NOED, learn to kill before before the gens are done or make this perk crazy but for a limited time.)
- Clowns toxic cloud: You should be immune to this once he hits you; after you are hit you snap out of it. Its also pretty punishing especially since he is so fast. Cant he like have a power that when he kicks a gen he can place a bottle inside so when they hit a skill check the bottle breaks and gas clouds them, that could be cool. Also can he refill his bottles in lockers like the huntress. I feel they are similar in a lot of ways. Also maybe he should only slow you that much with a direct bottle hit not a cloud. Make skill a thing.
- No more crazy hit boxes. Balance the ######### game don't make it a joke. I will post a video of me on Doctor doing dailies by 360 smacking people. Or the trapper hitting me through the time space continuum.
- Can perks work better on the people that they belong to. Eg; self care is at 60% speed on Claud but 50% for everyone else. Make the survivors and killers have meaning and substance to who you main. It would also help killers have an idea of what to expect.
- Doctor is the tunnel king. Enough with all the extra gimmicks he has. Lower his basic pool of bullshit and limit how much annoying ######### he can have at once. Not only can't I use items but i can't use pallets or windows and after unhook he is immediately chewing on my stirrups.
- Leatherface: Everyone who mains this guy is a salty peace of work I swear to our lord and savior, Mathieu Côté. Can his Chainsaw actually bump into anything because I watch it go through walls. If you are gonna let him have this attack can he not have M1 changed to have shorter lunge and a bigger cool down for when he misses. He in all honesty doesnt need to be changed if you delete the tunneling and camping drama.'
- Freddy: Being in his terror radius for too long should put you to sleep. His ability should mark you to scream or always hear his terror radius for a period of time. Basically, take some bullshit off the doctor and give it to Freddy. He has been a meme long enough.
- The Wraith: This killer doesn't use bloodlust as going invisible is better. Him not having a terror radius in chases defeats the purpose of some perks like Diversion and whatever that ######### one is the Tapp has. I think with his buffs he should have a terror radius. Since his ability is MUCH better than it was.
- The Legion: Everyone eats everyone else ear off with how much they hate the legion. I will just say. When I herd the name the legion I thought there was gonna be the ability to switch between personalities. It would be cooler if you could switch between 4 people and they all have their own abilities. Maybe he jumps in a locker and comes out with a different skin/gender or he can switch in his mind and move a different speed or whatever. I think his ability is stupid ill leave it at that.
Okay that enough from me. This has been a good rant from me but lets turn it into a good team building exercise! Please comment with any ideas or tweaks to whatever I have mentioned. Please don't spread any hate for survivor or killers. Happy chatting.
Comments
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I appreciate you don't want to be toxic or further a killer vs survivor main mentality, but I have to say your suggestions have a LOT of nerfs to killers and only a small handful to survivors.
I do like the idea of swf increasing gen time and have no problem with something being done to noed, but taking surprise hits or phasehits away from wraith and spirit would make the perk pretty much useless to them.
I also like the freddy and doctor changes you suggest, though memes about him being weak aside, freddy autosleeping people by just being nearby would make doing the last gen or two extremely difficuly since he can see you when you're outside the terror radius if you're asleep. I don't think it's a bad idea but some tuning would be essential and I'm not super confident the devs wouldn't overkill it one way or the other.
I also don't think killers should be further punished for camping. Defending hooks is essential and a change like increasing the hook time just for staying nearby wouldn't just punish camping. It would also severely punish a killer for just defending because they see someone going for the save and making anything take longer than it does for a killer right now also compounds the problem with generators getting done way too fast. There just isn't enough time for a mechanic like that as a killer unless the survivors aren't even trying to get generators done.
Hope my comment was at least a little productive and that it doesn't just come across as me shooting the ideas down, but I won't pretend I'm not a bit biased toward killer. I enjoy playing it much more when matches aren't too stressful and it just has far more appeal to me than survivor. That said, I do play both and have made it to rank 1 on both of them and even from the survivors side of things (where I play with 1 or no perks 95% of the time) I think a lot of these changes would make matches both even more predictable and even more easy than they already are even without swf.
Hitboxes do need to be fixed, though. No arguments there at all from me. Appreciate the effort to encourage less back and forth toxicity and I'll be watching the post to see what others say.Post edited by CyanideCandy on1 -
Nice survivor main balance changes. Just like every other main 99% of these changes are horrendous and is completely survivor sided.
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@ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:
Nice survivor main balance changes. Just like every other main 99% of these changes are horrendous and is completely survivor sided.You shut down dialogue when you use the "them vs us" mentality. This is a community. It's killer vs survivor during the game, but why wouldn't you be interested in listening to what the other side has to say and why would you expect them to listen to you if you won't return that favor?
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LOOOOL
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CyanideCandy and ThirdSealOPplzNerf thank you for taking the time to read my post.
@CyanideCandy I agree with the Freddy changes not being the most ideal but my reasoning for that was this gives him more map control. While I agree it would make the last gen a ######### with my current model, with a developed and thought out PTR there could be changes that could work. Maybe you wake up easier or something. I am not sure with this.
A reason I add a lot of things to killer is because a lot of the ######### is just annoying. Its meant to be a game and thus fun. It is my thought that too much annoying ######### just makes the other side angry and not want to play. I feel that with less annoying things the DC rates would drop when some ad-dons are and abilities are changed. My hope would be that with changes all killers would be meta. While I will admit my ideals on some killers may not be ideal (I play Billy, Huntress and Myres almost exclusively) i have a good idea of how boring or lame it can be from a survivor side to go up against it, get downed fast and then be chased straight off hook until death.
I would like to draw a difference between camping which is not leaving the hook and defending because I feel survivors are quick to scream "camping"and "tunneling" as soon as they see a killer. I feel that in defending my model above would not count stacks if there was another player within X range of the hook as the current punishment does. But when you don't know there is someone close by and you choose to stick around it makes for a lame experience. I would ideally like to discuss changes where killers don't need to care/worry that the survivor has been saved because there is more ######### to do.@ThirdSealOPplzNerf I am sorry you found my defense against killers lacking. There are some things I am saying simply to ruffle some feathers and push the envelope and others I am saying because I feel they need to be said. If you could please share you thoughts and reply to the points and offer your tweaks or adjustments I would love to read it.
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