The Dredge is the best killer you've made since Blight

I fully agree, but I do think Nightfall should be toned down a bit. Maybe increase the visibility range a bit, but it seems the biggest problem some people are having is even just seeing in the range they are supposed to be able to see, because even there it's sometimes to dark.

I like her design but I think one problem many have with her is her rather limited counterplay, making her not the most enjoyable killer to go against.

I agree. Right now he has brought the fear back to the game. I went to lock a locker and he grabbed me from within. It literally scared me.

I think he was designed to be fun for survivors, not killers.

He's miserable to play, there's too much noise and his gameplay is clunky and slow.

i agree, super fun to play as. I'm trying to be objective with balance when reviewing him tho, and I can't deny how difficult it was for me to lose a single match, even in the matches where i was getting so wrecked that i was about to give up.. but then late game, it turned around from them finishing 3 gens before I even got my first hook, to me killing everyone because they couldn't do gens. My perks weren't even good either, I just leveled Dredge to around ~20 and used some random mediocre perks.

Regarding how to play against him? like, there really wasn't anything they could do, it was completely my choice to focus on regressing the generators. Survivors can't really force me to chase them, it was just a matter of patience on my end, which isn't something that can be affected by survivors in any way.

there was one match when there were 3 survivors left with 1 generators left to do. 2 of those generators had all 4 pistons moving and I thought "oh man, this is it". But nope, i managed to regress them all back to 0 progress and kill all 3 survivors.

so you're saying he needs a nerf because survivors in your games 3 gen and screw themselves over?

The dredge makes dead by daylight feel more like a horror game and I'm all for that. Definitely fun to play on both ends, and doesn't feel oppressive, even with his antiloop

Once people start getting meta perks and figuring out how to use his power, he's going to be beyond stupid to play against. Another killer with oppressive mobility and oppressive chase. Oh and I get to stare at a black screen for half the match. Feels balanced...

Yeah I just played against one with killer meta build and it was just painful. Maybe when people are more used to playing/versing him it will feel more balanced though. Give it a little time.

I mean, survivor players probably also still need to get used to him more. I don't see him being stronger than other A tier killers. His mobility is great but his chase really isn't that oppressive at all. But who knows, both sides probably still have some improvement left.

Can't really agree. He is powerful, but not S tier or anything. He definitely has great map control, but it's not insane or anything, to the point where survivors can't complete gens. Not even close. I would say it's pretty much on the level of Blights, maybe a tad weaker, but that's it.

His anti-loop is not bad, but in my opinion, Demogorgon's is probably a tad better. It moves survivors away from pallet loops but it doesn't have any range or can hit over pallets and windows. Plus he moves slower than survivors while his remnant is active.

Of course he does have Nightfall, which definitely makes his map pressure as good, if not a bit better than that of Blight's, on top of other advantages. But it's not too crazy either. I do think Nightfall needs to be toned down a bit though.

I definitely do not agree with Sadako or Freddy being solid. And most of the community agree with me on this it seems. Freddy isn't bad, to be fair. I think he is stronger than some other people think, but not quite viable. And Sadako is definitely not solid, which most people agree with.

Killers need to be strong to be viable, it's simply like that. And Dredge, in general, is really well balanced actually. Not to strong, but also not to weak. He might just need a few very small nerfs in certain areas, mainly Nightfall.

i am wondering if difference in opinion on balance may have to do with playstyle?

Different people think differently, so it's natural that different people naturally "click" with different killers.

perhaps a reason why some people don't see how strong his kit is yet is because he's so new, and those people haven't practiced enough yet.

Dredge immediately "clicked" with my way of thinking, and I went from being a mediocre skill level killer to not losing a single match with him since his realease. The only survivors that have escaped have been ones that I give the hatch at the end.

You really don't have to commit to chasing. Nightfall makes him stealthy, and teleporting charges nightfall. So all you need to do with 1-2 gens left is to aggressively regress the generators and ignore chases, then once Nightfall triggers you have a good chance of creeping up close enough to a survivor to get a hit in without needing to commit to a long chase. After the hit, teleport back to the most active gen, sneak attack other survivors. Eventually you'll get a down.

Not to mention, you would be surprised how often I've managed to pull people straight off the gen with this tactic. i've pulled people off generators more than I have been able to with any other killer, and i'm not even particularly trying to do it.

This is my experience at least. So far I've had one loss (3 survivors escaped) out of however many matches I could have played the past 3 days, been playing for about 8 hours per day.

I don't know what to tell you really, from my experience the cooldown is short enough to regress all remaining gens.

let's say there's 3 gens remaining, Gen A, B and C. What you do is stand at Gen A, you teleport to the locker closest to Gen C while making sure to pass through Gen B. This way you're putting pressure on all 3 gens simultaneously, because.. You have Gen A covered, and you hear if survivors are at Gen B, and you're about to be at Gen C. You never have to search for survivors to be at the correct place. And 12 second cooldown on a teleport is a joke. I didn't realize it was that low.

Imo the cooldown needs to be much higher to fix this issue. Something like 30 seconds. But in some situations this will be too much. It's only really needed to prevent the constant gen pressure

So here's my suggestion: You know how he has teleport charges? You usually use this to teleport additional times between lockers. Instead, allow Dredge to teleport with a very short cooldown for as long as he has charges, but each charge takes something like 30 seconds to recharge.

For example, if you then have 3 teleport charges, you can teleport 3 times on a short cooldown, but it'll take you 30 seconds to get each charge back. This way, you'd be more encourages to follow up on chases, and would make it harder to gen camp like i've been doing.

About me being good? I'm really not. I am pretty bad as killer, 90% of my playtime is as survivor but i try killer from time to time. Most of the gen grabs I've gotten happen when i teleport to an unlocked locker around a corner from the generator, during nightfall, and then i just go in for the grab. I have to admit that when I play as survivor, I can't always hear him during nightfall either, there's so many weird ambience noises and it's super dark, so i understand people messing up like that

30 second cooldown would throw this killer right into the trash bin, but you realise this yourself.

The idea with charges taking 30 seconds is also too extreme in my opinion. Though to be fair, I do get the idea behind it, being able to teleport up to three times with very low cooldown, but being balanced by the higher downtimes Dredge would sometimes have on his teleport, to force him to go for chases or patrol gens like an M1 killer. But this would nerf him too much in my opinion. 60 seconds with no teleport, just so you can teleport twice again? That would hurt his map pressure way too much. Not to mention that his locker teleport is used for chases as well, to counter holding w. It's one of the aspects that makes his chases so interesting.

Keeping all that in mind, 20 seconds would maybe work, with a base cooldown of 8 or 10 seconds to his teleport in general (you can't make his base teleport, such as his remnant teleport, have too little of a cooldown, or outplaying him with his remnant wouldn't have enough impact), but even that might be a bit much, killers need good map pressure, and he uses his locker teleport for chases as well.

It would also make the part where he can teleport from one locker to the next using his charges completely obsolete, unless those would be affected by other charges? And I doubt the devs would want that.

12 seconds is definitely enough in my opinion. Demogorgon has a 10 second cooldown on his teleport. If you just regress the gen A, and then teleport to gen C, why on earth wouldn't survivors hop back on gen A? Even if survivors are working on gen B, he will have to walk to gen B from where he teleported to near gen C. If a survivor is at gen C, and he kicks it to regress it, a good survivor will just hop back on gen C. Or the Dredge commits to a survivor at gen C, then he won't be able to defend gen B or A. After 12 seconds, he can teleport back to gen A or B, however one also has to take the travel time into consideration. Again, he comes out of the locker, and if he just kicks the gen, to then patrol other gens, any survivor at gen A will just hop back on it.

He will need to put time into chasing survivors, hitting them, and at some point also downing them, picking them up and carrying them to a hook. Survivors will still be able to do gens despite his great map pressure.

And this is also only when gen B is somewhere right between A and C, which is not common. You have to move pretty close to gen B while teleporting to hear if someone is working on it or not, because the teleport sound itself is quite loud. Not to mention that in many cases, gens don't spawn right next to lockers, only close. And survivors can just wait and lock lockers during the late game as well.

I can maybe see BHVR increase the cooldown to 15 or 16 seconds, but that's it. And probably only if the upcoming perk update will add some form of basekit slowdown into the game. But 30 seconds per charge never.

I guess not having to wait for all 3 charges to be recharged would balance this out a bit. But it still seems so overboard, because at some point, dredge will only have one charge, he teleports, and now he has to wait almost 30 seconds to use his teleport again. Or I spend 45 seconds wondering around the map as an M1 killer with no map pressure, just so I don't have to wait so long for my next teleport after I teleport once. It's just way too long. And even though I obviously don't know what BHVR plans, I am pretty sure that they will not nerf his teleport like that. It already goes against the design philosphy of Dredge.

Like why would they want to make their new killer too weak, especially one they obviously put so much effort into? And why wouldn't they not just nerf his remnant teleportation first, to allow survivors for even more counterplay during chases? Or tone down his Nightfall, where he is particularly strong? Map pressure is something that should always be a good part of a killers basekit. Killers without map pressure suffer greatly, unless they have an insane anti-loop power, like Pyramid Head. And even he still has a bit of map pressure in form of not needing to hook survivors, and his immense tunneling potential.

Also, not once have I been caught off guard by a Dredge during Nightfall. You can always hear him from a decent range, and see him. You simply have to pay attention. He also makes a loud noise when exiting a locker, that can be heard within a decent range. So I have absolutely no clue how you were able to get those gen grabs. Since you yourself said you aren't an experienced killer player, and don't play killer a lot, it's very likely your killer mmr is just very low at the moment, too low thanks to your experience with killer as survivor.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And you even have said you enjoyed your times against Dredge. But I would advise you to play more and increase your mmr on killer. Again, I am not sure if Dredge might need a cooldown increase to 15 seconds or so, but I think you'll notice that survivors can still get gens done despite his map pressure, if they play well enough.

I am not against nerfs to Dredge, because I can't say for sure if he is perfectly balanced or a tad overtuned, but I am positive Dredge doesn't need any big nerfs, if anything, just very small ones. My favorite idea still being a small time increase when teleporting back to your remnant, so survivors have a bit of mindgame potential when looping Dredge at pallet loops that don't break line of sight.

only way i have learned to play against him is by pressing w away from loops and when he tps back track like u would with spirit pallets are not ur friends when hes using his ability distance is and when he tps pallets are ur best friends again. my problem with this killer is he is so over kited that new players like my friends are actually turned away by the nightfall mechanic because they feel helpess they cant see where pallets are they dont really know map layouts well and even when they do find pallets they have to worry about his tp back most new survivors hang around the edge of the map as well and they hide in lockers and this killer 100% forces them to be in bbq at all times pretty much or get pulled out of a locker. Im sure hes fun to play against but i think bhvr is going to have an issue like they did when legion was first released of people A.) dcing out of matches b.) just giving up and going next match c.) leaving the game like a good chunk of the player base did when legion was released a swift fix to nightfall would fix this for new players tho.

Yeah I do get that part, but I still think it's way too much, because there will be situations, especially early on, where you are going to use yout teleport more frequently. And I am absolutely certain BHVR will not nerf dredge this hard.

I really need to know though, are you using Call of Brine with him? You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress, and that's only when one survivor is working on the gen? How are you staying close to one gen that long, without survivors just finishing another gen? Any smart survivor team will split up on at least two different gens.

There is no way that works against good survivors, not even withg Call of Brine. And as I said, in many cases, you won't have lockers right next to gens, and you won't have one gen right between the other two gens, so you can hear the third gen that you are just passing.

During Nightfall of course his map pressure becomes stronger, and he can definitely defend gens very effectively, of course at the cost of downing survivors most likely, if he is really just teleporting from one gen to another.

In general though this all just doesn't add up. 12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all, and it seems like most people agree with that. The more I play with him, t he more I think his basekit is totally fine. The only thing I could see needing a nerf in the future is his Nightfall, aside maybe from a few minor aspects, but maybe they'll also just increase the time it takes to activate Nightfall, or the duration of Nightfall, we'll see.

I really don't know what to tell you, I'm talking from my experience with him, not some wild theories based on numbers.

And as said earlier, i'm facing meta slave teams frequently with the usual dead hard / borrowed / decisive.

No, I'm not using Call of Brine with him, I used whatever perks I had by the time I levelled him to 20. Only perk I had that felt like it did something was Fearmonger since that is pretty useful against dead hards.

you're saying "You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress" and "12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all"

You do realize that the survivors won't even get 10 seconds of progress if my teleport cooldown is 12 seconds? Like i said before, I end up knowing exactly where they are, so I am THERE the moment the survivors touch the generator. By the time they've given up on the generator it's been minutes of me aggressively protecting it. I mentioned this before but there was a match where there were 3 gens left, of which 2 of them had all 4 pistons moving. I managed to regress both those gens back to 0 progress, and kill everyone.

It's all about patience. If gens are about to pop, don't commit to a chase.

Edit: I also forgot to comment on that you're saying there aren't lockers near every gen. Yeah that doesn't matter. If there aren't lockers near the generators, i just let the generator complete. basically, let the survivors do the gens that you know would be harder to defend when there's only 3 gens left on the map. Most of my matches start off with survivors doing 2-3 gens before my first hook, i just make sure they don't do the generators I want to be there for the "endgame". That's when I start killing.