Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Rework Stealth killers into Chase killers
Stealth killers don't work. DbD isn't meant to be played like that, it's a lesson anyone who has played stealth games learns very easily with DbD.
Consider these facts: Survivors have smaller characters than killers thus their exposition is inferior when compared to killers.Third person Perspective gives survivors an advantage to look over objects, denying the fact killers can hide their presence, as such, abilities like Nighshroud, Pig's Crouch and any other stealth ability aren't very viable cause their visibility is assured to survivors but taken away from the killer. As easily as a Survivor can crouch in a corner or next to a barrel and killers won't see them. Survivors are the stealth killers...
Why do Stealth killers have TR and Red Stain? Those defeat the purpose of Stealth. Since having TR and Red Stain is NORMAL for every killer the moment a stealth killer loses those it's a MASSIVE WARNING for survivors.
Just imagine IF GF's weapon was PH's Great Knife... would that make sense for a stealth killer? No it wouldn't, so neither does all the PAINFULLY OBVIOUS WEAKNESSES they have.
Rework Stealth killers.
Comments
-
I love playing Myers and Jigsaw so no, dont rework them into chase Killers. If you dont like stealth Killers dont play them but dont try deprive people who love them the ability to play them, you have enough chase Killers to pick if you want that style.
If they are weak (I disagree) is our own problem not yours.
20 -
no. Your personal preference isnt the baseline for everyone to play.
stealth killers dont work for YOU. meaning you just need to figure out how to play stealthy. also known as GET GUD
19 -
Stealth killer used to be good but devs didn't liked it so they added circle of fairness so you cannot hit and run anymore :)
Only anti loop killers matters in dbd.
6 -
Stealth killers can do just fine with a smaller tr and red stain, I mean look at deathslinger before he got nerfed. The red stain part is debatable, but it gives less experienced or not as good players an idea of where the killer is. And even though stealth killers aren't great against people who expect it, there are still tons of creative angles in the game to catch someone offguard. Frankly stealth killers aren't weak enough to get reworked, but dbd lately has been getting unhealthy with the heal speed for survivors. Though to be fair that affects every killer even ones that can instadown.
1 -
Myers isn't stealthy at all, he just has small TR and no red stain only in tier 1..., you can spot Myers from the bottom of the ocean why you think everyone complains about managing to get out of tier 1? He is BIG, SLOW and HARMLESS in tier 1 in 99.9% of the maps. Think about it logically, DbD isn't played like a stealth game is, there is no way to effectively use stealth because survivors have better stealth than killers do, every killer is far easier to spot than any survivor, survivors have more effective means of hidding than any killer has.
It's not personal preference, it's a fact that stealth killers suck and all of them are in the lower tiers for a reason. STEALTH IS NOT VIABLE IN DBD. Tell me a high rated stealth killer... There's nothing above C tier. There's no base line to GET GUD. The game isn't meant to be played like that, you're meant to engage survivors and chase them, not jump scare them, it's not FNAF, it's a slasher game.
It's not about Hit & Run and Hit & Run didn't die cause of circle of healing, Hit & Run failed way before Circle of Healing existed, If the killer hits you and then runs away what does he really get? A single hit doesn't matter at all, same as a single hook, you need multiple hits, like you need multiple hooks so from the very start Hit & Run is a poor concept, even more so when none of the stealth killers has a means to quickly go anywhere. RUN is part of Hit & Run but if you can't Run then you're not doing Hit & Run.
Stealth killers have no speed at all and making speed perks like Play With Your Food work means you have to engage in chase with Obsession, but you won't always find the Obsession plus you're giving your position away to the whole survivor team, they'll know you're engaging with the Obsession and then immediatly leaving, thus it's really goddamn easy to understand what you want to do.
IT's about the game not being designed for stealth killers. Why does losing TR and Red Stain matter? If anything the killer losing TR and RedSTain during chase means the killer is trying to play a mindgame, the easy solution is just to break line of sight and leave the loop, HOLD THAT W. The killer will mindgame himself while Survivor just goes to another loop or disappears from the Map cause Survivors are the real stealth killers.
Why would stealth killers even have a TR and Red Stain? Those defeat the very concept of stealth. Using stealth mechanics mid game is a big tell sign of what type of killer you're playing against and what that killer intends to do so having TR and Red Stain is a gigantic flaw in their design. You can't design the game for the lower skill levels, otherwise you're given "dumb" people easy tools, those tools will be exploited by smarter people, which is what happens in DbD all the time.
Heal speeds have nothing to do with stealth killers. Stealth killers were already bad before circle of healing existed. Creative angles are way harder to use because the game is janky AF, how manny times do people want to Lean with GHostface and they can't cause they're not in the right angle? Continuing about angles, 3rd person perspective destroys stealth.
Stealth killers are all of them simple M1 killers in a game that never gave M1 killers a chance no wonder every M1 killer, stealth killers included don't make it out of C tier....C tier is the best they can ever be...Being C tier is getting getting out of the 7th circle of Hell into the 6th circle of Hell, you're still in Hell. It's same as going from working in McDonalds to work for BurgerKing, you're still in the same line of work dealing with the same #########.
0 -
More than 50% of players play in a SWF; this means they are telling their friends what the killer is doing constantly. Stealth killers are completely ruined by SWF. You always know where they are because you have radio intel.
Personally I would love to see : Michael Myers, Ghost Face, Ringo, Wraith & any future stealth killers not have a red light in chase. That one small change would make these killers much harder to loop.
If we took very strong survivors and killers and rotated to about 10 maps you would find that stealth killers don't really work most of the time. Overall they tend to have either no mobility or no chase lethality. Removing the red light in chase would make stealth killers far more formidable as it would like cause more pallet pre-drops.
It's not really worth playing DBD as killer if you pick an antiloop killer. What a simple way to revise stealth killers : remove their red light in chase. It's not exactly antiloop but it will definitely make them MUCH harder to loop.
4 -
Rework survivors into sacrificial lambs coated in herbs and spices
I mean most of them die anyway
0 -
Stealth killers might not be meta, but I don't see a good reason to remove them from the game.
Some people like stealth killer gameplay more.
6 -
There is no stealth gameplay. None of the stealth killers work properly cause the game isn't meant for stealth and 1 shots, you're meant to chase people, and to chase people you have to be running after them, running after them is quite the opposite of stealth. So by CONCEPT ALONE STEALTH DOESN'T WORK IN DBD.
I don't want Stealth killers to be gone either but as the game is it makes no sense to have killers designed for something that just doesn't exist. Repurpose those assets it's all. And even then i am giving suggestions to keep stealth elements, like the removal of a TR and the removal of the RedStain. I fully understand it will be hard for new players to play against a killer like that but Survivor gameplay is piss easy what's wrong with giving them a little bit of a tough time? Plus you're making more killers more enjoyable to play, so you won't be seeing always FACECAMPING Bubba's, Nurses and Blight's...The single reason you see those killers alot instead of everyone else is because they simply work when every other killer doesn't.
Loops hide the survivors better than killers. Killers have gigantic bodies that can be seen from across the map. Survivors 3rd person perspectives means they can see around corners and above manny objects, meaning they're safe from stealth killers while also being able to see them. How can a stealth killer aproach a survivor if killer doesn't know where the survivor is hidding but the survivor can see the killer aproach while hidding?
Who's really the stealthy one then?
The fact that stealth killers have a TR and a Red Stain but have the ability to remove those things also works against them. If you're midchase and suddenly those things disappear then you know the killer is trying to mindgame and the better solution is just to find a moment where you break line of sight, which is easy because survivors have smaller bodies and round corners much better than killers, and go for another direction, hold that SHIFT W and no stealth killer can do anything about it. If they try to stalk you more then they are slowing themselves down meaning you've escaped, since every stealth killer is an M1 killer, they have no mobility to catch up to you, meaning you've escaped, even Wraith suffers from this, he has to cloack and uncloack, which give survivors a decent enough head start and chance to get to a pallet or window before Wraith can attack again.
Stealth killers have way too much against them vs most of the other killers. Stealth clearly isn't guaranteeing wins and they have nothing else to use. What's the point in having 5 or 6 stealth killers if they just don't work? Rework their powers.
Why can't GF have pre fixed cameras that do passive stalking? Why doesn't Myers have an add-on to start at Tier2? Why is Condemned so damn useless? Why is Pig's crouch so unusable? Why is GF's cooldown so long when that's everything he has?
THere's so much wrong with stealth killers that keeping them as stealth killers only makes people not use them or only use them when they have offerings for in door maps...
0 -
No, they shouldn't be reworked just because they are stealth killers. However, I do think that most stealth killers need some buffs, especially onryo.
5 -
DbD isn't meant to be played like that.
Im glad I trust BHVR to not destroy some of their best Killers based on your opinion here.
2 -
Myers is stealthy, you just dont know how to play him and your whole post shows it, what are LoS? what are high walls? what are outer rings of the maps riddled with high objects?.
And again if they suck its our problem, the people who play them, not yours, dont deprive us of their gamestyle just because reasons.
0 -
From the developers when they released stats years ago. About 70% of games played include people in a swf when you consider 2-4 man games. They presented the stats in a way that made it look confusing but it was clear that most people play most games in a SWF.
Best killers? I think not. Myers,Wraith, Pig, Ringo, and Ghostface are nowhere near the best kilelrs. In fact most people rate them as nearly the weakest killers. Let's look at why : they have almost zero anti loop. To put this into perspective : imagine that female survivors could not equip dead hard. This would make it so that David = nurse, and Meg = Pig.
Nurse is the best killer in the game because she has the power role in chases. Every other killer requires you as a survivor to make a mistake. When you play against a nurse (and a spirit - but oh wow was she nerfed) you are required to make her make a mistake or she will hit you.
0 -
Some of their best? They can be fun despite being basic M1 killers but best is not a word i'd use to describe any of them.
0 -
Myers is definetly not stealthy at all, you can spot him from across the map due to how big he is. He gets so so slow when stalking that survivors require minimal effort to not only not be stalked but also keep him in tier1 where he can't do anything dangerous. Every time you Tier up as Myers you lose "stealth": Your TR get's bigger, you regain Red Stain. Myers is not stealthy, Only Scratched Mirror Myers is stealthy and that only works on basicly 2 Maps, Lery's and Midwhich and considering the long corridors in Midwhich then you're gonna have to open all the shortcuts and even then it's still barely if at all in Myers's favor.
Stealth isn't a gamestyle in DbD. IT does not work at all, therefore i'm not depriving anyone from anything. If all the water in the planet was Salty and we couldn't turn it into usable water in a reasonable time frame would you still consider ddrinking it? IT'S NOT VIABLE. Stealth isn't viable in DbD, you don't have time to be stealthy and the stealth tools that stealth killers have are miserable.
0 -
Myers is stealthy, he has a 8 meter TR with M&A in EW2 which means once you hear the hearbeat you have literally 1,75 seconds to get away before he is in range to stab you and yes, he is big and can be seen out in the open, thats why you stay out of the open unless you are already chasing someone and he runs there, you use the outer parts where the jungle gyms will block view so you can go unnoticed and getting out of EW1 is super easy.
If you think being stealthy is being invisible with 0 TR you are dead wrong, being stealthy is being hard to detect or notice which can be done by Myers easily if you play him the way Im telling you.
And again, if stealth doesnt work (it does) its the players who play those Killers problem, why do you even want Myers, Ghostface or Jigsaw reworked and gutted of their basekits if you dont even play them?, its like someone who doesnt like ranged Killers demanding Huntress, Trickster and Deathslinger reworked into chase Killers, the answer would be the same, "go play some other Killer and leave us alone".
0 -
I mean, the ONLY reason I started playing killers was because of The Ghost Face. I prestige III'd him, and I've gotten to Iridescent I every "season".
He's certainly not S tier, but he's still a lot of fun. My main gripe is stealth DOES tend to go to the wayside at higher MMR and it ends up just charging up stalks then doing boring M1 chases. Stealthers are great on indoor maps, but not so great at outdoor maps. I feel that stealthers need some sort of additional ability to make up for the lack of ability to stealth with how people can just aim their camera down and see over walls to see anyone coming a mile away.
A simple suggestion for addressing it at least for GF ties into lore. The entity typically empowers killers in someway. The GF is just a dude with the knife. The entity could empower him by making him not visible (or at least a low to the ground smoke cloud) to anyone further than 32 meters away. This would allow him to travel from a distance unseen, but once he's within 32 meters, he's fully visible.
A more creative suggestion for The Ghost Face is that, much like where his inspiration comes from, there are actually TWO killers. This is simulated by Ghost Face being able to "mark" a locker. Once marked, another "The Ghost Face" hides inside. After that, the killer can enter another locker somewhere. This will essentially "teleport" him to the marked locker where he comes out as the "other killer", and now the locker he had just entered is the new marked locker. This will help him get around the map a bit better and have a better approach to an area than just walking there and being seen coming a mile away. If a survivor opens a locker with an inactive "The Ghost Face", there's a jumpscare, the survivor is exposed, but the inactive The Ghost Face closes the door. Either that, or the locker has a "The Ghost Face" outfit hanging inside, so the survivor knows that's a marked locker, but can't go in the locker. Maybe give The Ghost Face 3 marks to apply to lockers. Would be kind of like the Dredge, but he'd have to hop into a locker to activate the power, and he'd be limited to what lockers he could swap to.
Long story short, stealth killers are just fine and give a new take on going up against a killer. However, they DO need some sort of crutch due to third person cameras on the survivors.
0 -
Killers are biggger than structures, there's no way to go around without being unnoticed, survivors can crouch next to barrel and be invisible, they can go on bushes and be invisble, they can stand behind a tree and be invisible. Myers and GF are always bigger than everything even when Gf is crouching and to stalk they have to have line of sight which means they have to expose their bodies even if ever so slightly but they have to expose themselves.... You can only look 1 direction while the other 4 can look pretty much everywhere. And Spinechill exists for those who don't want to make the effort of looking around. Simply seeing the icon go off gives you all the advantage, you just start going away and killer is forced to leave you alone prematurely or the survivor will spot them pretty soon because spinechill warned them... You can't counter Spinechill by looking away, if you look away you can't stalk if you can't stalk you're not using YOUR BASE KIT. So tell me exactly how are stealth killers supposed to play when stealth isn't really a thing and stalking gives your position away anyway... IT?S POORLY THOUGHT OUT AND EVEN WORSE OF AN IMPLEMENTATION.
Gutting killers of their basekit? What base kit? Stealth killers have a horrible base kit. Ghostface got no changes at all for 3 years straight. Myers got no changes for about the same time. Pig has been nerfed how manny times now!? And you tell me i'm the one gutting their BASE KIT? THEY DON'T HAVE A BASE KIT CAUSE THEIR BASE KIT DOESN'T WORK.
Ranged killers make sense in DbD. They trade movement speed for long range lethality. Stealth killers aren't stealthy cause the game doesn't work like that and they're not lethal, every stealth killer is an M1 killer and even Pig's Dash is pretty uneffective in most loops. A Survivor can just Shift W and the be safe because the time it takes to crouch, charge and lunge is way too much for the Dash to be effective, plus there's always the Magical E key from the Blessed Dead Hard to counter your power, same thing happens to Myers's Tier 3 Lunge, you can avoid it. GF however doesn't have Dash or extra Lunge so screw him even harder. And Wraith got his Post uncloack lunge NERFED because of LOW MMR SURVIVORS complaining that a BEGINER KILLER was killing BEGINER SURVIVORS...
0 -
I started because of GF too but after 1 month it was super noticeable there was nothing for him in the game. Reaching iridescent ranks/rank 1 is a matter of how much you play. It's not really an achievment, even in the MMR era. You might stuck for a bit in whatever rank/grade but with time you'll surpass it because you can't derank anymore so even if you lose a couple of matches, you'll just keep the same rank/grade but lower MMR so you can get easier opponents so eventually after time you can just reach grade 1 and be done with it.
I can't find him Fun anymore because there's no fun to be had in playing and trying something that obviously just doesn't apply to the game. You could have superman as a killer in DbD and he'd have to be affected by Pallets...Would that make sense? No but it's how DbD works, killers have to be affected by Pallets even if the killer is Superman. By default killers have to be depowered.
0 -
Funny thing with Stealth Killers is that they tend to be slower when using their stealth. This is counterproductive, because these killers are sacrificing map pressure and slow down powers for their stealth, which doesn't award them any advantage when actually in a chase. You're forced to not use your power while you navigate the map to reach a survivor, and when you do reach a survivor, it's too late to use it.
You actually make much better Stealth killers by simply sticking Tinkerer on literally any other killer, they get Undetectable AND normal movement and map traversal.
So stealth shouldn't come with a movement speed penalty. Ghostface/Pig crouching, Myers Tier 1, should all be regular movement speed, so that they can traverse the map AND use their power.
2 -
Killers are taller than jungle gym walls, cranes, harvesters, main building walls? Spine Chill being a problem? Do you even play this game?.
Im going to go with what Hexdaddyissues said, you really need to git gud.
0 -
No.
I LOVE scaring people.
0 -
Gym walls, Cranes, Harversters, Main buildings.... What are those? Loop spots, if you're at a loop, you're at a chase, if you're already chasing them then that's that. Spine chill is a problem because you could be literally be impossible to see and they will just know you're there regardless. Plus to stalk you have to look in that direction so you are making spinechill trigger.You won't avoid the perk. The only way to avoid the perk is to be able to hit & run which you can't cause stealth killers have no good mobility and navigating maps isn't always easy or fast, and the other option is to have good angles from which to stalk from which doesn't happen often. Do you honestly think that when BHVR designs a Map they purposefully study and prepare stalking angles or do we just discover them through experimentation?
If by design the maps don't support the killer then how do you expect certain killers to work? Would it be boring if you're forced to play a certain map every time you play a certain killer? Yeah it would be but at the same they could design maps that make sense for the killers you're playing. Myers in Corn Maps is a pain to play regardless of how good you are cause those maps just don't give what Myers needs. Same thing happens to all killers in all maps, even the ones with realms designed for them. Plus GF is literally just a killer, no survivor and no map, he's basicly a foot note.
They got the license and they're happy with that and that's that. It's sad cause they can do so much more with such a beloved character.
0 -
How do you know they are actually scared? DbD isn't a horror game.
0 -
More like game should be reworked to make stealth killers work.
0 -
Yeah the game needs to be redone , regardless of stealth killers, but's it's alot less complicated to just rework stealth killers than the entire game. Plus they can make the killers more effective and still keep stealth aspects, they just don't do it. GF and Myers spent years without any meaningfull changes...
0 -
It would help a lot if Undetectable means Undetectable. That type of detection immunity Myers had in EWI before that status effect was introduced. No Spine Chill warning, no Premonition (no body uses that anyways), no aura reading.
3 -
Yeah Undetectable sould mean no Perks or abilities work but then you're still dealing with the issues of visibility and possibility to hide yourself while also making progress, you might be able to hide but you're not making progress thus to make progress you can't hide, which is what every stealth killer suffers from. In order for them to progress they need to expose themselves, you can't stalk if you don't look at them and to look at them you're also giving them a line of sight towards you. Visibility is anti-stealth so if a killer has to be visible to use his power then what's the point?
1 -
If you are completely Undetectable, it would be op as hell. Imagine a Wraith who is always invisible.
0 -
I've watched some playbacks on twitch streamers that I match against. I usually get some fun reactions.
0 -
We're not talking about invisibility. We're talking about killers that you can see clear as day having undetectable not trigger spinechill\auras and such. They need the crutch. Wraith has freaking invisibility, he's fine as-is.
0 -
If you don't like them don't play them, it's simple as that.
0 -
Nah, you don't speak for me. I wish downvoting was a feature but your post is ugghhhhhhhh no
0 -
If i didn't like them i wouldn't be here writting about it, i just wouldn't play them. I care and i like them but the game is not designed for them to work and it's far easier to change them then it is to change the whole of the game for them to fit. What's the point of stealth killers if they lack mobility, they lack pressure, they lack chase. They can't even stealth right cause they're far easier to see than survivors are.
What good is a stealth killer in an open map where everyone can see you? How good is a stealth killer if he spawns on top of a hill where everyone can see him spawning? How good is a stealth killer whose power is stalking when he is much easier to stalk and reveal than survivors are? Who's the real stalker then?
How good are stealth killers when they have no way to move around quickly, when they have no special abilities to deal with loops? Every stealth killer is an M1 killer and even SADako is a ######### killer, not just a ######### stealth killer. Wether you like the characters or not is completly irrelevant to how they are designed and how they perform. Stealth killers are in the bottom tiers for a reason. THEY DON'T WORK cause the game is not designed for stealth, it's designed for chases and to be in a chase you and the survivors must be seeing each other, seeing eachother completly dismantles the concept of stealth. You can't find 1 person alone without getting spotted, grab/1 shot/ chase them and expect that the other 3 survivors don't see or hear anything.
Even GF's Nightshroud in chases ends up being useless most of the time cause there's cracks on the walls everywhere so survivors can see the direction you're going and then avoid you. And they can just sit in a corner and know you're coming while you can't see them because of the 3rd person perspective.
Every match is comprised of moving parts so if you can't control movement, which you absolutly can't, then you can't be stealthy. And even in the best scenario where you can quickly and quietly down a survivor and hook them, sooner or later you're gonna be exposed, they will pay more attention, they will see you, you will have to go somewhere where they can see you and if you don't go then you're telling them go ahead do your business in those areas without pressure. Stealth killers don't work cause they have to expose themselves and they are very very easily exposed and spend most of their time exposed and they lack any other form of pressure, except for Pig but Pig still has to work her ass off to get pressure so again what good is Pig's stealth? Not very good.
The fact people do good with certain bad characters doesn't make the characters good, it makes the players good. Call me a bad player all you want, but that's not the issue, the issue is stealth does not work in DbD and stealth based killers don't work because they are based on something that doesn't work.
Do you honestly think that Gf is terrifying because he is stealthy or is it because he's able to strike anyone anywhere at anytime? Does that sound like stealth or mobility? To me it sounds like mobility. Does stealth help in mobility? YES IT DOES HELP but STEALTH IS NOT MOBILITY. How manny GF's exists in the movies? Multiple, how manny in DbD? 1! How can 1 guy be anywhere at anytime without MOBILITY?
EVEN with Mobility, you're still not guaranteed anything, look at Wraith and SADako, Wraith is a beginer killer, easy to pick up and easy to master but not much progression. He can move fast and he has stealth yet why is it that he's still not that high up in power? Because he trades all of that to be able to do anything...He needs to give up his two strongest aspects in order to attack. Without stealth and without Speed he sucks at CHASES, that's why even Wraith with Stealth and Mobility is still not a very high rated killer.
Why are the best killers the best killers? BECAUSE THEY ARE OPRESSIVE IN CHASES. Nurse, Old Spirit, Old Billy, Old Slinger, all were strong because they were opressive in chase. GF and Myers aren't opressive in chase, neither is SADako, Pig or Wraith.
The prefered method for Stealth Killers, the Hit & Run playstyle doesn't work aswell and why? Because the moment survivors understand what you are doing they will just not care, they'll just gen rush even harder and you won't be everywhere at everytime to stop them. You can't juggle 4 people as an M1 killer without insane mobility. Nurse is an M1 killer but her mobility surpasses the game itself, that's why she's the undisputed Top of killers, and always will be.
Why you think people don't bother healing against Legion or Plague? Because those killers get easy injures but not easy downs. Unless Plague drinks from a fontain her only options is to M1, the green puke will never down you. Why heal against LEgion? IF he's in Frenzy you have nothing to fear, and even after the changes to his base kit he is currently BUGGED so even the 5th hit down with Frenzy isn't working. Point is Legion needs to be an M1 killer in order to down you. M1 killers suck in chases, why you think Legion isn't a high rated killer? Despite Legion's moderate mobility, he still has to trade mobility for lethality. Old Spirit and Nurse and Blight don't trade they opressive power for lethality, they get both. They get by pretty well on any map while majority of killers do bad in almost every map...
0 -
i think a lot of people enjoy Ghostface, Myers, and Sadako. They could use some tweaks or buffs.
Just because a killer is bottom tier does not mean people are not having fun. Not every killer has to be "S+ TIER". Not everyone is playing like it's MLG or DBD Twitch finals, some people just wanna have fun.
You can write a wall of text on this but I enjoy Sadako in her current form, she could use some power tweaking and shifts but its fun. I main blight and spirit, and I sweat on those two.
*shrug*
1 -
If i didn't like them i wouldn't be here writting about it
I'm sorry but how can liking stealth killers and wanting to completely rework not be mutually exclusive?
0 -
"Not everyone is playing like it's MLG or DBD Twitch finals, some people just wanna have fun." "I main blight and spirit, and I sweat on those two."
What can i say....
So it's my fault that i like and main a BAD KILLER? You're right it it absolutly is, i should just learn a strong killer and naturally increase my chances of winning by playing a stronger killer.... SO it's better to play something opressive instead of fixing what's wrong?
Cause that's what i'm getting from you. Which is exactly what DbD has done all this time, ignore what's wrong just make opressive ######### instead to circumvent the real issues.
Me suggesting that stealth killers get a rework is circumventing the real issue, BAD GAME DESIGN but i don't want stealth killers to just be = to Nurse, i just want them to have an actual ability that doesn't have riddiculous constraints. i want them to have a power that actually helps them.
I can't tell you a single killer that doesn't feel half baked. Even the strongest killers are half baked, Nurse will never leave the top of killers because she has to fill the role of the strongest and BHVR will never make a killer that can dethrone her while she remains the way she is. they'd have to seriously nerf Nurse in order to create a new top killer.
0 -
Because reworking them doesn't mean they stop having stealth properties. What i'm saying is their stealth properties alone aren't enough.
What is GF's power? Being undetectable and stalking survivors. What is his weakness? He's not undecteable at all, losing TR and Red Stain doesn't mean they can't see your body from far away, if they see you then what's the point of not having TR or RedStain? They already saw you....What good is stealth when that stealth isn't real because stealth killers are the mercy of wich map they play, at the mercy of that maps rng, at the mercy of spawns, what good is a stealth killer if he spawns on top of a hill or a machine that can be seen across the map? If they see you spawn then it's gg EZ baby killer.
Only Wraith comes close to true stealth but Wraith needs to get slow and get visible in order to injure survivors so again what good is stealth when it doesn't lead to anything?
GF doesn't get 1 shots because of stealth, he gets them because of STALKING. Myers doesn't get 1 shot downs because he's stealthy he gets them because he STALKED, and for a long time.
To STALK you need a line of sight which means they can also see you and run away. SO You're not being stealthy and stalking, you're doing 1 or the other. And while you're stalking someone else can see you cause you can't account for everyone's location all of the time. You can believe you're alone stalking some survivor and another survivor ends up sneaking on you and just reveals you.
Plus against an SWF there's no stealth, as soon as 1 survivor sees you, they all know. In that scenario how good is stealth?
I'm giving you the scenarios and these are very frequent as to why stealth doesn't work. Stealth killers can't be just stealthy, they need more, much more. Myers, GF, SADako, WRaith need major help. They're simple M1 killers with a power that doesn't benefit them.
SADako's TP is slow, survivors can turn it off, and she has nothing else = M1 killer. GF has stalk but it's faster to reveal him than it is to stalk, has nothing else = M1 killer. Myers starts slow AF and he is gigantic, has no stealth, corn maps? goodbye stalk. Tier3? Comeback Mechanic that only happens if you stare at survivors for a really LONG time. Mori? ONly if you find the dumbest survivors on earth and possibly the universe, = M1 killer. Wraith? has to trade everything to be able to attack = M1 killer. Pig? Her slowdown is RNG, stealth is the slowest thing ever, Dash isn't very usable, = M1 killer.
Do you see a trend here? Stealth doesn't work so give them another tool. GF's add-ons got reworked and most of them are this: After the Survivor is Marked .... How are you gonna Mark survivors if you can't aproach steathly because stealth is a myth in DbD, how can you stalk when it's far easier to reveal GF than it is to stalk? How are you gonna mark people if your cooldown is massive everytime you are revealed?
His add-ons aren't any better. They all involve doing the hardest part already. What's more rewarding than getting the stalk? I want the 1 shot not extra effects on top of the 1 shot. If i one shot them then what does it matter if they were exhausted or if the gen regresses? Those only apply under specific conditions AFTER i've done the hard part. Just let me stalk without having to be stealthy.
A real stalker doesn't need to hide, he can be stalking you in the open, in front of everyone. Myers can stalk whenever but GF needs to use Stealth to STALK? What kind of backwards thing is that? If he gets revealed then he loses both stalking and stealth...
0 -
You're right, the game is poorly designed but it's not an esport game. So not sure why you're expecting League of Legends level of gameplay nuance and balance.
0 -
Because it's a PvP game, that naturally brings competition to the table. People will want to do better than everyone else and win. It's Human Nature. It's the same thing as with Work, why work hard if you're still getting payed? You work hard because you want something more, it may be so that every task of that day is completed and you don't have extra work the next day, it may be that you're helping others, it may be because your work is relaxing to you so you just do it gladly and time flies, it may be because you need more money so you put in extra hours, whatever the case may be. Same thing applies to DbD, you will want to win, you will want to get more BP, you will want that Archive Challenge, etc.
DbD can't have a crisis of identity. Either it's full on casual or it tries to be Balanced. Why have MMR in a casual game? Yet the truth is we do have MMR in a very unbalanced game because it's a casual game. Why have a BP cap of 1 million in a casual game? Why would you limit how much BP you can get? IF the game is casual why is playing killer so damn frustration and why is there such a big difference between the difficulty of the objectives? Why are some killers so riddiculously strong and others have riddiculous weaknesses? Nurse is the undisputed top of killers and Trapper and Myers for example have been in the bottom tiers since ever.
Having a minimal power difference would be acceptable since it's reasonable that some kilelrs might be better equiped for this or that but a power difference so Big like DbD has is not acceptable. And the way to fix it isn't by making mid tier killers, cause mid tier killers will still come short of being good. They should just make it so that the bare bones basic mechanics of killer are the same for every killer and fair for killers.
And i don't even need to bring Survivor vs Killer here because the disparity among killers is so big already. Talking about Survivor vs Killer is another conversation that proves yet again how messed up and casual minded the game is yet again there's non casual systems mixed in which solves nothing but creates even more problems, problems in the Survivor vs Killer and Killer vs Killer discussions.
I don't want it to be LoL because LoL is toxic AF but DbD is toxic AF already so improving the game wouldn't hurt it at all.
0 -
killers in general shouldn't have the red stain at all
0 -
Well i won't disagree, they're pretty visible and have plenty of audio cues, so yeah they could go without the stain. And most loops allow for visibility through holes so there's already sufficient means of counterplay. What's the point of being a stealth killer around killer shack? It has so manny holes from which to see killers that stealth is barely any help.
THe only reason for TR and stain is so that less attentive players don't get caught of guard. It's a safety mechanism basicly.
0 -
Uh they all are absolutely weak and there's really no argument that can be made against that
0 -
TR and RS would be understandable if the survivors played in 1st POV.
I as a survivor would actually love to not have TR or RS on the killer because I already can see literally everything around me. If a killer gets to hit me, it's because I wasn:t paying attention.
0 -
TR and RS would be understandable if the game wss all in 1st POV, not just the killer.
But as it is, itcs completely unnecessary. If I as a survivor get hit, it's because I didn't see the killer and wasnt aware of my surroundings, especially when survivors can see everything aroudn them all the time...
0 -
Agreed to disagree, but even if it was the case, I dont want the developers to deprive me of their gamestyle, especially if they get reworked into something we have plenty of already. If I wanted a Killer with a chasing power I would be playing Nurse, Blight or Spirit, as I said if they are weak and I underperform is my own problem, noone is forcing me to play them.
Demanding buffs or tweaks? I can understand, demanding full reworks and extinguishing an entire gamestyle in the process? Nah.
0 -
But not every survivor is paying attention. "People just wanna have FUN" = CASUAL GAME. For this reason you need to give these systems to people that don't want to invest time in learning.
0 -
Hard disagree. There should never be a reward for doing nothing. If you don't wanna or simply can't invest time in learning, then I'm not sorry to say this but that's tough luck. There are some things that you should never get for free, specifically nonessentials. This is a nonessential, therefore it should not be free.
2 -
The game is based around chasing survivors, if you don't have a power to chase how do you expect the game to work for killers? Why you think Stealth killers don't break out of the C tier? Even SADako is trapped as one of the worst killers. Stealth isn't a viable option and this doesn't have to do with wanting to win, it has to do with basic game design. If the premiss of the game is to chase and hook survivors than there has to be direct interaction between both sides, which means there's no stealth, you have to be face to face with them plus you're at a disavantage, you can't see what's around you in 1st person perspective as killer vs survivors who can see around them because of 3rd person perspective. They will be hidding behind a corner watching you and you will never know... Who is really the stealthy side then?
If it were 1on1 situations then yeah you can try to be stealthy and get gen grabs or 1 shots very easily but it's 4v1, a survivor you can't see can be seeing you and you won't realize, and that can mean all 4 of them can know where you are, in that scenario there's no stealth. There's survivor perks that literally deny stealth, Spine Chill, Object of Obsession, Kindred, etc. How do you feel when a single perk completly destroys a killer? It makes no sense for a single Perk to completly nulify a killer especially when all that killer has or most of what that killer has relies on stealth and denying the other side information about their location.
GF is extremely easy to counter. He is extremely easy to spot and has a long cooldown ensuring his power usage is limited. Myers is way too big and starts out way to slow and only get's menacing after quite a while in 99% of the maps and in some indoor maps, for example Midwhich you can just use the long always to completly evade Myers, you'll see him coming everytime. Using a tier 3 for a single down is a waste of Stalk unless a miracle happens and other survivors just throw themselves at you. Pig gets more from her RBT's than she does from stealth. Wraith has to trade stealth and Speed to be able to attack. SADako can move around but that's it.
Stealth in DbD is a way of being able to move without survivors being aware but the problem is it's very easy to be aware, there's 4 vs 1, there's the camera perspectives, there's the character model diferences. IT's easy to spot killers coming even if they are stealth killers.You can't play indoor maps everytime and even then you can get absolutly screwed by RNG in those indoor Maps and there's no way for you as killer to know how the survivors will play and what they are bringing. So even in the better maps for stealth killers it will always be an unfair struggle. You will still have to play very very well and even then the chances are always small. Cause stealth doesn't work and you're meant to spend more time out of stealth than in stealth anyway so if you can't use stealth you need to have something else.
Why are people afraid of Myers in the movies? It's not because he's stealthy or stalking you, it's because he's an unrelentless killing "machine", nothing you do matters, he'll get up, he'll keep chasing, he'll keep slashing. Why are people afraid of GF? Because anyone can be GF, because GF can come at anytime and anywhere, and while yes that does count as stealth what else does GF do in the movies? He isn't a single person, and GF is always prepared, in DbD you don't have a way to be prepared, you don't have a way to move quickly and disappear. You can't hook a survivor and pop Nightshroud cause the hooked Survivor will just reveal you, they don't have to do anything, just move their camera and bam you're left with no power and a long cooldown, you have to first not be visible so that you can use Nighshroud to mask TR and stain, so if Nighshroud, which is stealth, only works when you can't already be seen then what's it's purpose? The issue is that you can't use stalk whithout also being in stealth. It's such a dumb thing. How manny times do GF players extend chases just to get their power back to get that 1% stalk? How manny times wouldn't it be faster to just M1 twice and get the down? Stalking is useless against injured survivors cause you get no benefits at all, if they're already injured then the next hit will down them anyway and since you don't have any other type of power it means you're left with NO POWER and you're at the Mercy of Map RNG, survivor skill and survivor perks. GF is useless as a killer against injured survivors. PURE M1 killer. It's not worth to use Nighshroud for a Mindgame either, you're in a chase, survivors will be looking at you, they'll reveal you and even if you get a hit then you're revealed and go into cooldown again. GF is such a terribly designed killer that it hurts my brain to just try and find reasons as to why he is so terribly thought out and made. Wether you use Nightshroud effectively or not the end result is always going into cooldown... You're always forced to no matter what spend time, alot of it without a power.
I don't know the original japanese version of SADako but as far as i know she rarely interacts with anyone and when she does she's not stealthy, she just pops out.
And Pig, again RBT's are her main power. Stealth is optional or useless, same as the Dash.
0 -
They tried that whole not being detected with Spine Chill and Premo a while ago before GF was even announced. The community revolted.
0
