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Every Nerf that Dredge needs
I know some some people will not like to hear this, but I personally do think certain aspects of Dredge need to be toned down just a tiny bit.
None of these nerfs will impact his effectivenes when playing as him in a big way though, these are all just smaller changes to make him more fair for survivors. I do think that he is a lot fun to go against, but there are certain aspects that should be looked at.
First of all, his tunneling potential. It's too much.
- The range to a hooked survivor in which lockers are blocked should be increased from 12 to 16 meters
- Lockers should stay blocked for 3 seconds or so after the survivor is unhooked
The range of 12 meters is not quite enough in my opinion. But the second change is the more important one. He shouldn't be able to teleport back to where the survivor was hooked immediately after they were unhooked. That's just too strong.
Second is his Nightfall ability. Some people are having too much difficulty with it, and I can understand why. The biggest problem in my opinion is the fact that sometimes, it's unnecessarily hard to see even within the range that you are supposed to see, because certain maps, or certain areas of certain maps, become too dark.
One of my main problems is the blackening of the screen edges. You can only see within a limited space in the center of your screen, and that really needs to be toned down, if not removed completely.
Whether the visibility range should be increased could then be seen. Because I am not sure if that is needed or not. Interestingly, it says that the vision radius around survivors is 18 meters, but it doesn't really feel like that in game.
The Gloaming Cooldown during Nightfall should also be increased from 4 to 8 seconds, it being 4 seconds means it pretty much has no cooldown at all, which I think is a bit overkill.
Third is regarding his anti-loop.
- Bloodlust should be canceled as soon as Dredge starts charging his power
- Increase the time it takes to teleport back to your remnant from 0,25 seconds to 0,6 seconds
The one change that 100% needs to happen in this category is to cancel bloodlust and bloodlust buildup as soon as he starts charging his power, and not only when he teleports. Since chaining loops is one of his main counterplays, him gaining bloodlust while trying to zone you or leading you away from certain loops is absolutely bad. That should 100% not be a thing.
The other nerf I would suggest I am not 100% sure is needed, but I do think it would be good, as it would add just a bit more counterplay for survivors. I would simply increase the time it takes to teleport back to you remnant from 0,25 seconds, to 0,6, maybe 0,7 seconds, or maybe even just 0,5 seconds. This way, survivors would also have the option to counteplay while looping loops that don't break line of sight, instead of just chaining pallet loops or running away from the loop to force him to dectactivate his remnant.
This would only be a very small nerf, because survivors already have other options to counterplay Dredge, but it would make looping him at simple pallet loops, at least the smaller ones, not impossible, but mindgameable. That means Dredge could still get hits with the help of his remnant, but if survivors predict when Dredge will teleport perfectly, they have a better chance of getting back to the pallet the other way around the loop.
The odds of getting a hit as Dredge will most likely still be higher, and increasing the time to teleport beyond 0,7 seconds I am pretty sure would be too much. It would make camping pallets a bit too good for example.
Making sure a killer has fair counterplay for survivors as much as possible, without stripping him from counterplay against survivors, is the best way to design a killer. I do think the devs already did a good job with this regarding Dredge, but it could be improved with this very small nerf. Dredge has some counterplay against holding w, survivors should also have a bit of counterplay while looping at least most loops. Right now, it's only the ones that break line of sight that allow for mindgaming his remnant while looping.
Comments
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Dredge is fine. Give it a couple weeks before we start asking for nerfs. I remember people thought nemesis was A tier when he first came out ffs.
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Well, that was fast...
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I really hope Dredge doesn't get nerfed because I really like playing him. But I will admit, I do think he's a powerful killer, very close to Blight in power-level. However, if Blight and Nurse aren't being nerfed, then I don't think it would be fair to nerf Dredge.
Honestly, I don't understand BHVRs logic to nerfs anyway. Blight and Nurse have had a free pass on nerfs for a long time, then they go and nerf Deathslinger.
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I largely agree, but I do think him channeling the remnant should cancel bloodlust. Every other killer power resets bloodlust when used so it's just an inconsistency with his power that I would like to see fixed.
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It's an anti-looping ability, so canceling bloodlust kind of defeats the purpose of it.
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Considering other anti-loop abilities do reset bloodlust when the power button is used, this is not a valid point.
Huntresses do not get to keep their bloodlust when pulling out hatchets. Billys/Leatherfaces do not get to keep bloodlust pulling out their chainsaw. Nurse doesn't keep bloodlust charging her blinks. Etc.
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If Dredge is outperforming Blight after a month, then I could see a reason to nerf him.
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I mean that's fair. Blight and Nurse are overdue for a nerf anyways. But I seriously think that these small nerfs will not impact dredge in a big way, it's just to make sure he is fair for survivors at all times.
The only nerf that would be a bit noticeable I would argue is the nerf to his remnant teleport, and it taking 0,6 seconds or so would still keep it pretty strong at loops. I guess I just wouldn't mind if it didn't completely shut down medium and small sized loops. I'm fine with it shutting down big loops though, those allow survivors to chain loops very well anyways.
All the other suggested nerfs seem to be no brainers to me, that you can already tell even just after a few days, the Nightfall nerf and the tunneling nerf in particular. There's no reason for me to not implement these nerfs. To be fair bloodlust not deactivating after you start charging your power also just seems like an oversight to me.
I think the thing is that with Deathslinger, and Spirit as well, the main reason for the nerfs were because they had so little counterplay. It was less about their power level. Even though Nurse, and Blight with Hug tech and certain addons, are quite busted, they allow for counterplay. At least blight to some degree. Nurse it's more the fact that 98% of people don't play her optimally.
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That's fair, but I would argue none of these nerfs except the last one need a lot of testing. Bloodlust not deactivating after you charge your power is surely just an oversight. Nerfing his tunneling potential is just a no brainer, and toning down Nightfall so it doesn't do more than the intended effect is also a no brainer in my eyes, and I believe could even happen in a hotfix.
The nerf to his remnant teleport is the only more "advanced" nerf, which is why I also said I am not 100% positive about that nerf yet.
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Yes thank you, I feel like it's probably just an oversight.
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The bloodlust is probably an oversight, honestly. However, if Dredge ends up being a B-tier killer, I hope they don't nerf him to C or D tier.
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The bloodlust one I can understand since it probably was an oversight. But all the others just straight up make him weaker. Which he doesn’t need rn. Give it time, people will learn how to give him a hard time.
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None of these nerfs need a lot of testing in my opinion though. Nerfing his tunneling potential a bit more is an absolute must, it doesn't take long to see that. Toning down Nightfall to not affect some people more than it is intended also seems like a no brainer to me. Just like canceling Bloodlust after charging your power, that being a thing is probably just an oversight.
The only nerf that might need more time is t he nerf to his remnant teleport. Fair enough, that's why I am also not completely sure it needs to happen, but at the same time, I think it would further improve him from a gameplay design point, and it would also not affect him much.
I guess the increased teleport cooldown duration during Nightfall is also a bit early to say, but 8 seconds is still not much at all.
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He doesn't need any nerfs, he needs a buff imo.
Separate his Locker and Remnant Teleport cooldowns, that way his 1v1 is a bit more usable
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I don't think he needs any nerfs personally but if I had to nerf the tunnelling potential, all I'd do is make the entity blocked lockers have a small lingering effect after an unhook. It wouldn't need to be super long, only like 5 seconds or so. This would give the unhooked person a chance to get to safety
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Why nerfing B tier killer? He is just fine. If anything I would maybe buff him haha.
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There already is a lingering effect. From personal experience, it takes about a second before you can teleport to the lockers blocked by being close to a hooked survivor. Then if it's not nightfall, the travel time takes a few seconds to arrive as is. There's already plenty of time for a hooked survivor to leave the area.
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Dredge is literally 3 days old.
Stop asking for nerfs immediately and give people some time to actually learn to play with and against it first.
Also, you're literally asking to nerf everything he has. You wanna hit his map pressure, Nightfall and chase ability all in once? really?
That's a hard no from me.
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Please stop trying to ruin things. Just learn to play around it. Especially Nightfall.
Imo the blackened screen edges should be added to Blindness!
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No to the blackened screen edges. That should be unique to Dredge.
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To people defending 'just deal with blindness' you sure AF dont have vision disabilities do you?
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This killer should never have been released.
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I like how asking for a nerf this early is a huge no no but asking for buffs is OK and totally fair. Just look at how Spirit, who was already insanely strong in the PTB, got buffed to oblivion because people cried she wasn't strong enough as they didn't know how to use her. Make up your minds killer mains, either neither is ok or both are lol
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Huntress doesn't reset until you actually release a hatchet, bubbas doesn't reset unless you fully charge the chainsaw, billys doesn't reset unless you fully charge the chainsaw, clown doesn't lose it while holding a bottle ect
Not a great example since plenty of other killers keep bloodlust
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Dredge is a fun and balanced killer.
To weaken Dredge, it would be better to directly give the survivors a "victory button".
When the survivors face Dredge, they can deal with Dredge well as long as they plan their route.
But many people don't experience the game and just want a "victory button"
When the button is pressed, the survivor wins unconditionally, as in the past.
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I am honestly not sure what to tell you if you think these nerfs would be giving survivors a "victory" button. Especially the tunneling nerfs, which would only nerf that strategy. Bloodlust not canceling when using your power also has to be an oversight, I am positive that will be changed, it has to, or survivors counterplay of routing and chaining pallets simply disappears after a certain amount of time, which really shouldn't be a thing.
Making Nightfall a bit easier on people that are affected by it more than intended is also nothing terrible. The intended effect of limiting your vision range should probably stay for now, and only if Nightfall still remains too good after my suggested changes, they could maybe nerf it.
The only two changes that I maybe aren't needed are the cooldown increase during Nightfall, and the nerf to his remnant. But again none of these nerfs would impact Dredge in an impactful way. They are both very small. I do think that Nightfall happens a bit frequently for the insane map mobility and pressure it gives Dredge, so if they don't increase the cooldown of teleport during Nightfall, maybe they could have Nightfall build up just a bit slower. But admittedily I am not sure if that is needed yet either.
Maybe if killers get some baseline buffs in the perk update, then he'll need a few more small nerfs. However, the tunneling nerfs, Nightfall effect being toned down a bit, and Bloodlust cancel at usage of his power definitely need to happen in my opinion, and it wouldn't impact Dredge in a particularly noticeable way at all.
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I 100% disagree with. I can see why people don'tr want him nerfed, although a nerf like canceling Bloodlust when using his power I am sure will happen, because I can't imagine that being intended. There is no reason for that.
But I disagree that he needs any sort of buff, especially this one. His 1v1 is already strong enough for how much map pressure he has, his remnant and locker cooldown should not be seperated.
If anything, I could see them causing differently long cooldowns. For example, if the devs ever wanted to increase the cooldown when teleporting to lockers, they could also decrease the cooldown when teleporting to remnant. But they should still share one cooldown.
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He's A tier in my opinion. Perhaps even in the upper half of A tier. And none of these nerfs would push him down a tier, I am pretty sure. He'd still be very strong.
I understand that nerfs like the one to remnant might not be needed. But making Nightfall a bit easier on people that are struggling too much with seeing within the visibility range, which surely isn't intentional, or canceling Bloodlust as soon as he charges his power, really needs to happen. It makes no sense for him to get to use his power and still keep his Bloodlust.
And tunneling nerfs are always a must in my eyes.
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It's 1v1 is worthless if Survivors ShiftW, it needs buffs
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It' true that outside of Nightfall, there is a bit of traveling time, but during Nightfall, not really. I guess if Nightfall didn't happen as frequently, the tunneling nerfs wouldn't be quite as urgent to me. But I still think they need to happen, no matter what.
I also personally haven't noticed a lingering effect, at least not one that lasts 1 second. There has to be one that lasts at least 3 seconds in my opinion, and nothing will change my mind on that. There is a reason why perks like Make your Choice are so good on him, and dear lord I hope I never go against a Dredge running that build. Might not even want to unhook survivors anymore in the first place. Killers should be incentivised more to pressure survivors off of gens and go for chases, not defend hooks and make unhooking harder, which is the most annoying part for survivor.
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It's not. Survivors won't always be able to shift W, sometimes they'll have to get creative or in rare cases just take a hit. Dredge can also make good use of his locker teleport in chases, especially during Nightfall. His 1v1 also doesn't need to be that strong considering he has a lot of map pressure.
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Bruh...............
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I agree with everything except the remnant nerf. Chaining loops, pre dropping and W keying are already pretty strong counters because of the massive movement speed penalty dredge gets while upholding the remnant and unlike killers like artist it also can't get hits over pallets and windows. So the counterplay is already there.
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That's fair, happy to see you agree with the other nerfs. I do think the remnant nerf would make him even better from a gameplay standpoint, because I do think the more counterplay both sides have when a certain killer is in play, the better that killer is designed. Which is why I think Demogorgon is liked by so many people. But I do agree that he has a fair amount of other counterplay, so I am not completely sure about it myself.
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Ah yes good comment.
None of these nerfs are in any particularly impactful.
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Lmao don't just look at the quantity of his nerfs, but the effectivenes. Some of these changes don't need a lot of testing. There is not much to learn about countering his tunneling potential for example, that's BS. Meanwhile, Bloodlust shouldn't ever stay active when a killer uses his power, it's no different with Dredge, and I hope it's just an oversight that will be fixed soon.
My suggestions to toning down Nightfall also aren't even necessarily a nerf, as the intended effect would be the same, it would just tone down the visual effects that make it unnecessarily hard for some people to see what they are still intended to see.
The only two more noticeable nerfs, that might not be needed admittedily, are the nerfs to his remnant and teleportation cooldown during Nightfall. The latter one wouldn't be a big deal at all, as 8 seconds is still not much. I guess maybe 6 seconds could also work, I just personally think 4 seconds is a bit extreme, because it is basically no cooldown at all. Although I get that was probably the intention.
The former I am not 100% sure is needed, but I do think it would improve him gameplay wise, because it would give survivors one more counterplay option at medium to small sized loops. And in my opinion, the more counterplay options both sides have at any given time, the better. And since Dredge already has different counterplay, this would nerf him only just a very small bit, since it would encourage survivors to sometimes try and loop him, and then mindgame his remnant, instead of running away from the loop and chaining pallet loops.
All of these nerfs together would still only have a pretty small impact on him.
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I definitely disagree with the buffs, but I can understand why people wouldn't want the remnant nerfed. I just think it would allow for another counterplay option, so survivors could also try and loop you, by mindgaming your remnant. Currently this is only possible when the loop breaks line of sight, I just think more counterplay options is always better. THe remnant teleport would still be strong, survivors would just have another option of counterplay in addition to chaining pallet loops or just running away from the loop in general.
I am happy if they just remove the bloodlust gain while using his power though, which is a must in my opinion.
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Dredge is fine for me. If survivors are inteligente enough they can avoid him, as when he stops using the remnant he is not able to do a thing for a little bit on time while still being slow, so the survivor can win distance. Then mindgaming him into using his tp by faking going to places leaves him on cooldown for a while, while his tp is kinda slow most times. But survivors do not want to think anymore. It seems, they just want to Tbag and click without giving the killer a chance to answer back.
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Bro the Dredge is already a Nerf himself...
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What on earth are you talking about?
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So the thing is, if the Dredge can see the survivor while they are looping the pallet loop that you placed your remnant at, there is no mindgame. Because he can just teleport right before the survivor runs into the remnant, and get a guaranteed hit. That's the one thing I would like to change, by increasing the time it takes to teleport back to his remnant, there would actually be a mindgame, at least at medium and small sized pallet loops.
To be fair, it is quite early to say whether he needs that nerf or not, but I do think that it would improve his chase gameplay just a bit more, even though I already think it's pretty good.
However, nerfs like canceling Bloodlust when he charges his power I think is a no-brainer, it doesn't take long to realise that probably shouldn't be a thing. Again, not a noticeable nerf, but it's needed.
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There IS a mindgame using the remnant, I have seen it. Again, there is a small window in which dredge cannot do anything but watch the survivor comming towards it or fleeing from it, and that also applies to comming out from lockers. And if another survivor is close by and destroys the remnant, then the antiloop is over. So making the remnant TP slower would basically end it's purpose and nobody would use it, making dredge a mere stealth killer and one of the weakest in the game. The same applies to bloodlust, when charging tp, he becomes much more slower and he will need to catch up if The survivors change loop or press w. Those nerfs would remove his chase potential completely.
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So make a D tier killer F tier. Got it.
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I remember people saying he was really weak on release lol
To the OP I don't agree with a lot of the nerfs. I like killers that are easy to play but also decently strong. The only nerf I really agree with is the no bloodlust while using remnant. I'd also personally like a slight audio cue for anyone near the dredge (12 metres) to let them know he's left a remnant behind.
The anti-tunnelling part I have no option on since I haven't faced a proper tunnelling dredge yet. Maybe in the future I'd agree.
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Camping and tunneling is bad again, guys disperse
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The entire reason i've not even bought him.
Waiting to see if enough people whine and complain to the point he becomes a joke like half the killer roster.
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Dredge is fine.
Vs good survivors & SWF he's pretty crap in all honesty. His anti-loop is predictable, locker power is inconsistent and readable. The only thing left for him is great map presence, but that doesn't mean much when dredge has nothing he can do in a chase.
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Vs good survivors dredge can't do anything. He's got his anti-loop but it's still very readable. Dredge is fine, if the game was balanced around high MMR he needs a buff but it's not so he'll be left as is.
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Every nerf that Dredge needs:
- A slight reduction to the darkness in Nightfall for Survivors.
This is the only nerf I could genuinely see him needing, as yes, sometimes it really is too dark for survivors. I personally don't think a 60-80 second power really needs any nerfs, but I can still see why people are asking for it. If this does happen, I'm fine with it as long as it's only a slight change and we never go back to the joke that was the PTB version of Nightfall. That was hilariously god awful, so I'm thankful it was just a bug that was fixed when Dredge came to live. Other than that, Dredge is fine. He has counterplay that survivors can't just perform by hiding or looping like normal. I think he's balanced honestly. It's nice to have a killer that can actually do what killers are meant to do, so even if he isn't S tier, he's still great, fun to play, and still has counters. Survivors just need to learn not to loop him (because he has a countermeasure for that), or hide from him (because nightfall lights them up). It's a learning curve like with any and every new killer.
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Nerf's The Dredge needs:
None.
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