Why is Overzealous getting Changed but not Prove Thyself?

I didn’t even realize earlier that it wasn’t on there. I agree they should change it.

Prove Thyself is not that much of an issue.

- Your average Discordance enjoyer

Jokes aside, I do like to rind Discordance but Prove Thyself shines when there are two or less gens left and 3-4 survivors alive. In ideal scenario you will generate pressure at that point that means two people don't even have the time to be on a gen together. If that's not the case, you were probably going to lose this one either way. At the same time, Prove Thyself can be a bit of an issue if the Baby Dwight is following me all over the map all game long, hoping to do a gen with me. 😅

Trust me, I know the feeling. 😂 But at least with Discordance I'll know where they are and can decide if I need to prioritise one gen over the other as it's in a good three-gen. Without it, both gens might be popping in my face. 🙈 I like Lethal Pursuer as well because having a decent early game.js so valuable - but like you, I've sometimes had that feeling I've lost as I spawn in. Discordance is a great endgame perk as well though (and that's where it really counters Prove Thyself well).

I think people really overestimate prove thyself. It's not a bad perk by any means but it's hardly OP.

It saves about 6 seconds with 2 people, 8 seconds with 3 and around 11 with 4. This time save is also not nearly as efficient as soloing gens as the time save comes from negating the efficiency loss of working together. As in, it takes 80 seconds to solo a gen and 41 with prove thyself where otherwise it'd take 47.

It's more useful for knocking out a problematic gen and maxing objective rather then straight up rushing them.

For reference, the base brown toolbox with no add-ons saves around 5 seconds while the commodious saves around 11, again no add-ons. Toolboxs can also be brought by everyone without needing to waste a perk slot or needing someone else to get the benefit.

I think Prove Thyself is perfectly fine as it's basically just a toolbox in perk form.

Exactly. It's also more strategic to split up on gens. It's far easier for the killer to get survivors off one gen than 3-4 scattered across the map. If everyone sits on a single gen and the killer interrupts then progress is completely halted. If they were on separate gens, only one would stop progressing while the others continue. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Prove Thyself only really shines when preventing or breaking up a 3-gen.

I only recently started running Prove Thyself in response to the meta of killers bringing 3-4 slow downs in almost every game. Along with the toolbox nerf, of course, and killers who passively stop you from playing the game, like Pinhead, Nemesis, the Artist, and even Sadako with the tapes. It's your job to stop survivors from doing the gens. And I hate to tell you, but Prove Thyself only works if your teammates are willing to do gens. Play solo for a while and see how many times your teammates ALL stop playing and expect everyone else to finish the last few gens for them. If they even start doing gens at all.

In all fairness, Overzealous is a bit weak, considering how you must first find and break a totem, then avoid the killer at all cost, to maybe get a 6% increase to gen-speed (In other terms: shaving off roughly 4 seconds from a standard repair), while co-op'ing with Prove Thyself takes roughly half the time to finish (I think it takes 37 seconds to two-man a gen with PT, and 76 to finish one solo with OZ).

Toolboxes and BNP's can shave off even more time. I heard a full 4-man SWF set the record at 6 seconds for a single gen.

But they do have a point all of the killer perks that take 25% of like pop to other ones like ruin are all getting nerfed or changed, but yet there not touching any survivor perks that speed up getting gens done its kinda saying a lot right there.

While I agree overzealous is useless, I disagree with your assessment of Prove Thyself since again, the time save only comes from negating the efficiency lost. Solo gens and then cooping the last is nearly as fast as Prove Thyself and a bit more consistent since you don't have to worry about 2 people getting knocked off a gen. Prove Thyself also doesn't give 30%, it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.

Let's compare solo gens to two Prove Thyself group gens with no interaction from the killer at all.

Solo- Four gens done in 80 seconds with the 5th gen done together in about 47 seconds with two people. 127 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.

Two Prove thyself groups- Two gens in 41 seconds, followed by another Two in 41 seconds and the last one in 41 with two people. 123 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.

Not including movement time Prove Thyself will only save 4 seconds altogether. With 3 people coop-ing the last gen, the time difference is 7 seconds and four people is around 9 seconds. Again for reference, a single commodious with no add-ons saves a flat 11 seconds.

I'm not saying Prove Thyself is bad as the extra time you do get can help destroy a 3 gen or slam out the final gen which those few extra seconds saved can be the difference. The perk just isn't as extreme as people think it is.

I'm not sure why survivors even have perks that make the gens faster. Prove thyself + toolboxes are a big issue right now.

Not even gen defense skills can help with gens popping less than 5 minutes sometimes and there is no way i can get 12 hooks in that time.

This event made this obviously clear even more, because survivors literally gen rushed to get the doors open to get their masks as fast as possible. I was lucky enough to get few hooks in the game.

I personally think gen speedup perks are bad for the game as it is now.

As a killer main, Prove Thyself is perfectly fine.

It is not really a repair speed increase, it's a "I don't have to go to another gen" bonus. All it does is (almost) negate the penalty for stacking survivors, so they can work on a gen together.

As a killer that's what you want. Gen rushing happens much more effectively when survivors split up on gens, you want them all grouped together, so you can pressure them all at once. It's neutral at best and actually works in your favour if you run Discordance.

It also doesn't stack with itself, so multiple survivors running PT means they've wasted perk slots.

I did not want to go into detail for how it works, but thankfully you went through details to explain it. I would say for the user reading a tooltip, they would expect the perk null repair penalty speed. 15%-15% is suppose to be 0. how it works in back end for programmer should not concern the user/player, though you could argue the tooltip is wrong as it inaccurate displays information for the user.

Why is this entire forum filled with posts on changing survivor perks because they're "too" OP even though they're working as they're supposed to?

With DS, CoH, DH, IW, and now even Prove Thyself that gets picked once in a blue moon seems to be an issue. Maybe just replace all survivors with perkless bots, maybe then all the killer mains will be happy sheesh.