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Kicking Gens Will Still Mean Nothing
The issue was the sad regression speed. 2.5% in the grand scheme is nothing. If you really want to make kicking gens worth it, just make the regression faster. Regression being 1/4 the speed a survivor does a gen is the reason why it doesn't matter to kick it. Only time 2.5% will really start to matter is if they tap the gen in your face... that's it. Other than that? Still no reason, to kick it, it's only shaving off 2 seconds and your kick takes nearly 2 seconds to do anyway.
If you seriously, for a second believe that a 2.5% kick is enough to substitute for a gen perk than idk what to tell you. It may be the base number they're going for just to be safe, but this will definitely need to go up or add faster regression on top of it, because that is just sad.
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Not to mention the ruberbanding, you hit a guy, drops a mile from you or they fall under a windows and instead of picking the survivor you vault.
Time wasted 5-10s easily.
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Except that it'll heavily disincentivise tapping the generator to stop the regression, since doing that means the killer can kick it again for another 2% progress chunked off.
The problem with the base regression speed isn't really that it's too slow, though that might end up being true as well, it's that it never sticks around for that long since it only takes a second of survivor time to stop it completely. This won't be a substitute for a regression perk, but this combined with the longer generator times in general mean that kicking a generator achieves something.
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Eh...
2.5 is more than it was before, plus regression starts instantly.
It's more discouraging people from going 'lol tappity tap' the second you kick a gen - now if they keep doing this, you can punish it somewhat.
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But it doesn't. Because killers don't just stand around a gen waiting for it to regress. They will leave to where it's safe for survivors to easily make up that 2.5% and more so that the 2nd 2.5% is meaningless as well.
Any good survivor isn't dumb enough to just loop around a regressing generator and just letting it happen.
Yes, but again. Good survivors don't loop gens. It's still meaningless. It's only meaningful if killers just stood around gens to make actual meaningful regression progress but that's throwing the game.
The gen changes were not nearly enough to butcher some perks acting as if they needed to be nerfed to compensate.
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With Overcharge & Eruption getting buff on top of the immediate 2.5% regression on kick and faster gen kicks. Kicking gens is more ideal than it was before.
It's much better than it was before where kicking gens was actually pointless, because survivors could just tap the gen immediately invaliding the time spent kicking the gen.
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Eruption is a good buff.
Overcharge won't see the light of day above 200% regression.
it has to build up over 30 seconds... a killer isn't going to just stand there for 30 seconds and camp it. So once the killer leaves someone will just touch it and move on. It's an overrated buff.
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It doesn't really de-incentivize tapping as he's spending 2 seconds to kick in order to take 2 seconds of, plus what little the survivor adds tapping it, and the time the killer wastes walk to and away from it as well...
So really it just makes it net neutral if even slightly still better for the survivor. That is until you take into account that it means the other 3 are still sitting on other gens during all this.
2.5% is pretty irrelevant over all.
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Credit where credit's due: Overcharge is REALLY good now. I would've just accepted them fixing it so that "if you tap a charged gen, it automatically counts as a failed check, even if you left it before the check popped up."
That being said, getting ANY gen damage is a step in the right direction. The percentage basically works out to around 2 seconds of lost survivor gen progress, which is roughtly how long the killer has to take to kick the thing in the first place. To make it ACTUALLY worth it, that number should be between 2x to 3x as long, since the two seconds a killer takes kicking a gen is potentially 8 seconds of survivor gen progress on up to four other generators. You can't compare killer-to-survivor time as a one to one when the game is four to one.
I'd love to see that "damage the generator" number kicked up to 5% or even 7.5%, but this is a start. It is, at long last, actually DAMAGING a generator, instead of just clicking it to "regress at 1/4th speed"
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It's 400% after 30 seconds and I remember seeing a dev post that says it builds up over that 30 seconds. So over that 30 seconds, it'll regress faster and faster.
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Overall, these are the proposed values. If it gets the response they want, they'll leave it at 2.5%. If not, they'll either bump it to 4 or 5% come live version or the next mid chapter. They're low balling the value because going too hard in the other direction will cause issues on its own. Playing it safe isn't an issue. If anything, I'm glad with the ground we've gotten. If we can get an inch... you know the rest.
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Don't forget they buffed kicking speed by 10% so it's 1.8 seconds to kick and the increased gen time to 90s means you are taking 2.25 seconds of progress off. Kicking a gen is always a positive drain now.
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Note that if they just tap it briefly, the gen explodes because Overcharge still has its original effect. Could use it with Surveillance to keep tabs on the gen.
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Well 2.5% is still 10 seconds of regression instantly, Possibly 12 seconds because they're increasing the amount of time it takes to do a gen.
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1.8 seconds for 2 seconds off. Literally nothing to gain. Especially because they will just get on that gen as soon as you leave. Is it better than what it is now? Absolutely. But it's not enough to butcher some gen perks that were fine as is cough ruin and pop cough
They don't need to tap it.
It's 10 seconds of regression in terms of killer regression time but that doesn't matter. It's 2 seconds off a survivor that they need to get that 2.5% back... but it takes nearly 2 seconds just to kick it and get that off. There's no gain.
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Still better than nothing and since call of brine overcharge is gonna become meta probably that will just add up on the regression.
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Well, if they stay on and Surveillance catches them, you go back and kick it again. Eventually, you'll catch them.
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IT's 1.8 seconds for 2.25 seconds. You gain almost 0.5 seconds from the interaction.
Whether or not it's worth to kick every gen immediately is a different question, but you can't say "it's nothing gain" when it is.
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In the grand scheme of things. It's nothing. 0.5 seconds on a gen is nothing.
So what play a game of back and forth until you catch someone? And what just let everyone else do gens?
Again, the base gen changes are NOT enough to straight up butcher pop and ruin.
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If you got Surveillance, it won't take nearly as long as you think. :P
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It's an improvement and perks with kicking effects are going to be more valid now.
I think that change is great. It will kinda help survivors too, because let's be honest, killers just never wasted time kicking gens unless they had pop and lot of killers will do it more than needed with those changes and I think slowdown options you are going to see will be way more interesting.
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Well as i mentioned in the other post even with that extra .25 it's still not even close to a positive drain when you account for the other 3 survivors sitting on gens during this. Every 1 second you spend as killer is 3-4 seconds given to them. So 1.8 seconds kicking is actually 1.8x3.
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Lol, a good survivor will stay close and go in and start repairing again anyways. I always have to have Tinker + Oppression or the likes to get anywhere.
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The killer buffs to gen regression were truly disappointing, fortunately DS will only last 3 secs after stun and deactivated at endgame, the best slight buff to killers, but not good enough since the tinkerer and PR nerf were awful
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i don't think kicking gens was pointless because of gen tapping.
It was pointless because a gen that is say 80% complete would take 240 seconds to fully regress. 240 seconds is 4 MINUTES. that is an insane amount of time in DBD terms for 80 second gens
thanks to overcharge, generators after 30 seconds will regress 1:1 ratio and overcharge can punish gen tapping if the survivor fails skill-check.
kicking generators at base is still pointless but with perks, you can make generator kicking very rewarding. Its just another case of use perks if you value fixing generator kicking part of the game.
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I was never implying gen tapping was what made kicking gens worthless, I was just responding to his point about it.
I agree with all your other points though.
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I never actually understood why survivors could just tap a gen with a fraction of a second, while killers needed to kick it 2s long; this never made any sense to me at all. How about giving them one round of a skill check to start it up again? Doesn't even have to be hard one, just a blank, empty skill zone like with Audodidact, but at least it takes a second to do and can't be cheekly done during a frigging chase.
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