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Am I going crazy, wasn't DS stun time increased to 5 due to enduring decreasing it?
I am pretty sure DS was 3 seconds stun time but was increased because enduring used to decrease the time from all stuns even ds stuns making it nearly impossible to escape. Then they increased it because it was an issue because since everyone ran ds all killers started using enduring because they hated old ds that much. Then enduring got changed so it didn't affect all stuns, but ds was never decreased back to 3 seconds until the mid-patch coming soon. Is this correct or am I misremembering things?
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That's what happened yeah.
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I wasn't going crazy patch notes 2.6.3 Ash VS Evil Dead
BALANCE:
- Changed the Decisive Strike stun time to 5 seconds, with the Survivor being free to move after 1 second.
- The Enduring perk now affects Decisive Strike's stun.
With feedback from the PTB and Live, we have changed the Decisive Strike stun time to 5 seconds, with the Survivor being free to move after 1 second. This should allow for the survivor to have ~ 4 seconds at a base to try and escape the killer after the stun is successful. When Enduring is used, the stun will be reduced to ~2.8 seconds. Of those 2.8 seconds the survivor will get a head start of ~ 2.28 seconds which makes escaping possible but much harder.
(Later on, enduring was changed, but DS wasn't reduced back to the original stun amount when it should have when enduring was changed.)
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Yeah, but it should stay 5 seconds. It really should especially NOW that it deactivates end game.
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I will have to disagree in my opinion DS stun should have reverted back long ago during the enduring change to only affect pallets, it was strange how they kept it the same time for so long. I highly doubt if it goes back to 3 seconds it's going to make it any less powerful as the old ds was still strong, sure new ds has more restrictions, but ds is an anti-tunneling perk, not a free escape perk.
Endgame DS had very few counters and wasn't healthy for the game, tunneling during the endgame is fine, it's more of tunneling at 5-3 gen, which is what people really hate, but the endgame is fine in my opinion. It's kind of like saying the killer should have gotten them all to death hook, which isn't as easy as it sounds as an efficient team will really make you struggle sometimes.
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What's worse is that the survivor is in an animation for some time while the DS stun activates, so you won't even be getting the full 5 seconds of distance.
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Which justifies, that they now toogle it down to 3 seconds again.
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I say we go in between and make it 4 seconds
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I dislike DS, never use it. But I agree with this 100%.
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DS being 5 second stun has been the case much longer than DS being a 3 second stun. Considering the animation to drop a survivor is around a second, the effective stun time is a second less.
If they must really nerf the stun duration, it should be 4 seconds not 3. A n effective 2 second stun doesn't accomplish much.
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As far as I remember it used to be like that but then they changed that and seperated "stuns" for enduring from perks. So a perk stun like head on and ds is not getting reduced anymore from enduring, its just pallet stuns.
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At least make the timer longer if you're gonna make it be available in such a really specific situation. 60 seconds and removing it in the endgame makes the perk not even function as an anti-tunneling perk since 60 seconds can be easily waited out
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It doesn't. DS is not a strong perk, since it requires active cooperation from the killer which can't be forced outside of the post 5th gen situation. That's getting addressed (Though poorly), so DS is in a considerably worse state than it was when it was buffed to 5 seconds. But now it's focused much more tightly on just punishing an early tunnelling killer, but then the punishment got cut by 40%.
It was already bad, now it got a fair nerf and should've gotten a fair buff to compensate. Instead it got a second nerf, and is now basically trash tier, even if OTR didn't get reworked into a more broken version of current DS.
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DS is not a strong perk?
Yeah, this totally explains why it was meta... even after several "nerfs".
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Outside of end-game, it won't fire against a competent killer. It won't do anything for you. The killer will just chase the other person or slug you out. It doesn't save you and your team any time.
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Depending on where the survivor gets downed. It can start a complete new chase. Another 30+ seconds of chase make a huge difference. That could mean enough time to repair the last gen, or reach said survivor for a body block.
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The killer doesn't lose much time to a DS bodyblock, because it's just the hit cooldown. Yes, if that three second delay is enough for the actual target to reach a new loop, that can make a difference, but that is garbage levels of situational, and it still lays out another survivor for a minute, leaving them unable to contribute.
Hit cooldown's also been reduced, so that nerfs the only use for the perk that doesn't rely on full killer cooperation.
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Yes. It also didn't deactivate upon performing any action, nor getting to the endgame. With these current stipulations, 4 effective seconds seems more than fair.
It being that way once shouldn't be the sole reason it's reverted, unless you wanna go all the way and run Enduring for the rest of your life.
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I'm sure the devs will adjust the timer depending on how the perk performs on the PTB or after the change goes live.
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They need to see how the Survivors who used perks outside of their normal parameters use them again.....4 sec might of been a better change but everyone has to remember that Das causes you to get off behind the Killer so that 3 secs or 2 secs is plenty of enough time to reach a safe spot to lose LoS.
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But that might be hard to spot
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No matter how people gonna put it, a perk that can revert literal death is certainly a strongest perk of all.
It's like reverting an finished generator.
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If you want to remove the Perk, sure. Then you can call it "justify".
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But they do need to do something about camping and tunneling. This change in conjunction with the gen speed change means that camping and tunneling is an auto win.
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I don't think any perk got removed by this mid chapter, did they removed anything?
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DS being changed to 3 seconds makes the Perk useless. You cannot get any real distance. If anything, the Stun Time should have increased or other measures should have been taken.
We are talking about a Perk which SHOULD be an Anti-Tunnel Perk. Even if it clearly is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk (its Anti-Tunnel is too bad), they changed it to something which made tunneling more rewarding in an Update, which should introduce basegame changes to stuff like tunneling and camping.
When someone has played back then when DS was 3 seconds (AND countered by Enduring), they should know that even without Enduring the stun was too short.
DS will probably still be used. But Perks like Ruin or Self Care will also still be used. Does not mean that they are any good now.
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DS was already worthless against the best killers in the game AKA the high mobility killers Blight Nurse Spirit will just catch up to you in a few seconds making distance against them was just impossible if they really wanted to tunnel you out of the game.
Now with this nerf to DS the top tier killers are stronger once again they keep giving indirect buffs to the already strong killers and the weaker ones are just left out...
3 seconds DS will still be good against a killer like Pig but against a Blight ehhh not so much...
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people ran enduring back then specifically for ds because taking the stun was not worth taking. and I doubt you could find any posts from back then complaining about the stun duration pre-buff. also the 3 second stun is enough for head on so logically it should be enough ds. even after the buff to 5 seconds, enduring would bring it below 3 seconds and it was still enough back then.
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It wasnt enough. From 3 seconds you will use 1,3 seconds for the animation, so the actual distance gained is 7 meters (1,7 seconds, should be around 7m with 4m/s Movement Speed). So unless you are very, very close to a Pallet or Window, you will not make it.
And well, Head On is bad. It is one of the worst Exhaustion-Perks and people just take it for the lols. So what is your point in bringing Head On into this discussion?
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i brought head on into the discussion because nobody has complained about the stun duration of that perk.
and why did no one complain about the stun duration of ds pre-buff if it was such a problem back than?
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Head On: Because people who run Head On know it is a bad Perk and just for the Memes. DS on the other hand is supposed to be an Anti-Tunnel Perk and you can expect that this Perk does something against tunneling.
And back then there were complaints about the Stun Time, however, DS was also not really used that much. One reason is because it was a recent Nerf (Nerfs tend to cause a drop in usage) but also because it was just not worth picking up with 3 seconds.
I mean, even 5 second-DS is not good at countering tunneling. The stronger Killers just ignore it, a Nurse or Blight will just laugh about it. But with 3 seconds, basically every Killer will laugh about DS and just tunnel through it. And while DS gets neutered for the sake of changing the Meta, you will still face Nurses and Blights on a regular basis (but due to other changes now with even less distance gained when they hit you - yay!).
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But... That's the thing, people did complain?
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find me a post of people complaining, I can't find any.
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Head-on isn't really comparable to DS. DS's purpose it to make the killer stop chasing someone who was just unhooked. Head-on is to interrupt the killer when they're chasing someone else, and possibly make them change target.
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I think it should be 4 seconds since 3 seconds is nothing. Now just make it remove all charges from Nurse and Blight, begins recharging after the stun is finished and DS is perfectly fine. Increase time on hook to 80 seconds to prevent camping then finishing someone off when they're on second hook state and there you go, less tunneling.
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the perk would still do something, like I said there were no issues when it was a 3 second stun back in 2019 and I can't find any posts of people complaining about the stun duration back then (you're welcome to take a look and post me a link). and because it was already that duration we don't even have to speculate how it would go as it was already a thing and it was fine back than.
I do agree that nurse and Blight is a problem but that isn't a ds problem, that's a nurse/blight problem and they should be nerfed accordingly along with these changes, (losing charges seems like a good one).
Just to reiterate the 3 second stun was fine historically which they changed due to enduring. so if it was good when enduring wasn't a factor back then than it shouldn't be a problem now since enduring still can't affect it.
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Back when it was a 3 seconds stun people slugged more. To get around it. That "worthless" 3 second stun was being played around. Dont believe me look at zubat lel old videos. A 3 second stun is very good.
Remeber you also have the ms haste increase + enduramce status to reach a non dead zone. But hey take it off next patch. See what happens I gurrantee you everyone will throw it back on the first game there tunneled. I feel like im seeing the old bbq complaints all over again. Bbq range was nerfed by 8 to 10 meters. The reaction oh this perk is worthless ah it does nothing. Reality everyone comtinued using it because 100% bloodpoints.
Ds might give you less time but its still the only perk that give you another chance vs killer who will tunnel you. Do you really want to be schmuck without ds?
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If you are talking about the stun before the Unhook-Requirement, this is not really worth a discussion and a poor argument. Back then DS was far stronger, because it can be activated on any Down. So Killers either slugged the Obsession or dribbled them to a nearby Hook.
Comparing the 3 second DS-Stun when it was at its strongest with 3 second DS-Stun when it is suppose to be an "Anti-Tunnel Perk" is really wrong.
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Yea but it will take players as well to spot that since we have greater numbers then BHVR does
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the 5 second stun came after the unhook requirement.
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I mean... people called it useless whenever it was "nerfed" and yet it still remained like a unmoveable object in the meta.
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This is incorrect. The 3 second stun also existed after the Unhook-Requirement was added. Which got buffed to 5 seconds.
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1,7 seconds are not enough to get away. 3,7 seconds are already not enough against the strongest Killers, with only 1,7 seconds you wont be able to get away against any Killer.
So the Meta will shift to Off the Record because BHVR failed to implement anything against Anti-Tunnel, except for another Perk which will be run.
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Of course the meta will shift to Off the Record. But runners will still use DS in combination with OtR, Adrenaline and MoM.
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the unhook-requirement was added in march 2019 2.6 then the 5 second stun was added in april 2019 2.63
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Yes. Which means that the 3 second-Stun existed while the Unhook-Requirement was already added. And it was too less.
You just cannot compare old DS which did not have any requirements with DS which requires to be unhooked to justify 3 seconds of Stun.
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i get that, what Im saying is that in that time period, you won't find anyone that complained about the stun duration.
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Yeah good luck escaping high mobility/ranged killers with a pathetic 3 second stuns, 1 second of which you're animation locked. Imo if the change goes live, DS will become a dead perk and tunneling will become even more prevalent.
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The solution to stop tunneling is to first of all change off the record to do something different, and make ds basekit, and it should trigger twice.
Only this way killers will feel the incentive to go for the guy that saved
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But your neglecting the haste effect and baseline bt to get out and reach a non dead zone. As said if 3 second stun wasnt an issue then why did killer play around it. Why not eat the apprently meaningless 3 second stun?
Inconclusion survivors are getting baseline bt, astronger version of bt and movement speed post unhook. Wjen you weoght up the pros and cons your actually getting way more ppwerul anti tumnel tools many of which are basekit. Ds existed when those were non existent bar bt. Which didnt even give haste.
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The stronger BT only works out of the Survivor who unhooks you has BT. Which is the same flaw with current BT.
Yes, there is a baseline Endurance and a Haste-effect, however, those are also really short. A Killer just has to count to 5 to counter that. And most Killers will be able to do that.
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