I fear the Dead Hard changes have missed the mark
To clarify what I mean with that:
The main strength of Dead Hard, at least in my opinion, did not lie in Dead Harding for distance, but rather in the fact that it was usable at any time without having an actual activation requirement that needed to be fulfilled.
In fact, the oh so hated "Dead Hard for distance" was but a symptom of this issue.
And the new Dead Hard I fear won't change this. While DH for distance is technically speaking gone, the gameplay around the Perk and its main strength remain completely untouched.
Instead of just DHing for distance before the Killer can get into range when greeding a loop, Survivors will now simply DH as soon as the Killer starts a swing attack to tank the hit, which means Survivors can still greed loops just like before and Killers can still not attack Survivors unless they are animation locked.
You don't need to DH for distance around a loop when you know the Killer can't attack you anyway - and if they do they get punished a lot more now, as they enter a wipe off animation while you get the on hit speed burst, allowing you to even save the loop and go to a different one alltogether.
The Perk feels even more like a third healthstate now, as any time the Killer tries to go for an attack, the Survivor will simply hit E and tank the hit.
I think one of two things needs to happen:
- Add an actual activation requirement that doesn't allow Survivors to simply use DHs effects any time they feel like it
- Change the Perk to be a predictive action taken by the Survivors rather than an reactive action. If Survivors were the ones who had to predict when the Killer attacks them and use DH accordingly, then the gameplay around the Perk would feel a lot more fair IMO. But for as long as Survivors are the ones reacting to the Killers actions with the Perk, it stays problematic because Killers will have to continuously "respect the possible Dead Hard" just like they have to now.
To me the changes thie Perk is about to get just don't really feel like they are going to actually change up the way the Perk is used and instead just make it even more obvious that the Perk is what it is: a third healthstate for free.
Then again, those are some Day 1(ish) thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right - only time will be able to tell.
But those are my predictions for the Perk: I don't think it is going to be any weaker than it currently is, it might even be stronger, due to the punishment being a lot harsher for the Killer.
Also just to clarify: I haven't seen any of the big content creators videos on it yet (but I have heard that a few of them do view this as a potential buff to the Perk as well), meaning in this post are 100% my own thoughts on the matter - so it is entirely possible that I might have missed something that they addressed and vice versa.
So let me know your thoughts! Do you see this similarly or do you think I'm wrong?
Thanks for reading and I'll see you in the fog!
Comments
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I’m not sure how to feel about it. I think against certain killers like trapper it’s definitely a bit weaker since it won’t allow you to DH over a trap anymore, but in other situations it may be better. Also, what prevents me from just pressing E and then fast vaulting a window? Either the killer hits me and I get a speed boost, or they don’t and I just vaulted for free.
Maybe I’m wrong though. I’ll definitely be spending some time on the ptb next week, but I’m starting to think an on-demand activatable exhaustion perk like DH just isn’t good for the game in any form.
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Tbh, it all depends if you're animation locked or not during the E. They did mention you still do the same animation.
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What I thought they’d do is keep it as it is currently but remove invincibility unless the survivor had the Broken status (Synergy with No Mither).
I think you’ve made a good point, my concern with the changed perk is going to depend on things like internet connection and we’ll get interactions with Dead Hard that seem unfair if one side is lagging.
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I'm pretty convinced it will be stronger except against Trapper, Legion, and Deathslinger.
You'll still be able to use it to tank a hit and killers will still have to bait it out. If a killer whiffs, the penalty is worse. They get an extra speed boost, lose collision, and the killer does the longer weapon wipe instead of the missed attack.
At the current moment, if you miss, you can usually body block and get a second chance to hit when it's used badly. That'll be gone.
For Legion, he can put people in deep wound easily and prevent the attack from being used. His frenzy won't be interpret by hitting in dead hard.
No dead harding through a trap.
Deathslinger just hits straight through it.
Every other killer comes out worse. M1 killers still have to bait it so it can be used to get extra distance to a pallet. Killers that hit with powers can't aim to hit at the end of the dash. Think Plague and Pyramid Head.
It's definitely a buff to an already strong perk.
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You forgot that Endurance doesn’t protect against grabs. The current version allows you to lunge forward to be entirely out of reach of a killer when you vault so there’s no possibility of a grab. This new version doesn’t do that, if the killer is close to you when you trigger Dead Hard and then vault they’ll be able to grab you during the vault animation. This isn’t an uncommon scenario, either, a lot of current Dead Hard lunges are literally lunges for distance when a killer is almost but not quite in range to swing and the survivor is almost but not quite to a window.
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My understanding is that Dead Hard will have an animation so you won't be able to vault or turn during it. Maybe that's not true though.
I am worried about the endurance effect though.
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It's hard to say without testing, all I know is that it will be either useless or broken, nothing between.
It depends on activation animation a lot.
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Here's the thing, we shouldn't need testing for this. Dead Hard was THE most oppressive perk in the entire game. THE perk most deserving of being crushed by a nerf so that metas could be shaken up. However the change to dead hard is one that leave sufficient room for debate to be had about whether it was even a nerf or if it might have even been a buff? While the killer meta perks were objectively nerfed in fashions where there is no doubt that they're weaker than they were before. The meta isn't going to change at all. Dead Hard will still be king. Borrowed Time is now basekit. DS functionally is replaced with off the record. Killers replace their slowdown perks with more slowdown perks, just weaker ones.
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That is true, but only for slow and medium vault scenarios.
With the right pathing, a Survivor would be able to fastvault and trigger DH right before that to, in theory, have the endurance status effect throughout the vault as well.
Now of course, we don't know the details on how this will work. Maybe the Devs have thought of this and removed the Survivors ability to interact with things during this second of Endurance, in which case this is a non concern. But that remains to be seen.
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Well if they have the right pathing for a fast vault in the first place then it wouldn’t matter if they had Endurance or not, they’d get through unhit eiher way.
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No you can absolutely hit people during fastvaults.
Thats the whole thing I'm on about: Survivors will still be able to greed a loop and make actions that they should not have been able to using just this Perk, so they could affort to be in the Killers range for a while, because the Killer won't be able to attack them just like it is the case now (they'd E the attack, which has an increased punishment for the Killer now AND it won't screw them if they do it in a bad spot, because they are no longer dashing into one direction that might screw them out of a loop / force a medium vault on them), but they might potentially even be able to have DHs effect during an animation lock now, which previously wasn't the case.
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Yeah but if you would be hit mid vault animation, regardless of which type of vault, and you’re injured then the killer gets a grab instead, but Endurance doesn’t stop grabs.
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Killers can not grab you out of fastvaults.
Maybe if you are vaulting into the Killer, but if you are vaulting away from them I do not believe a grab from a fastvault is possible. At least I have never seen one happen ever since they introduced the multiple vaulting types. And I do believe the old grabbing animation for when only one vault type existed (fastvaults) where the Killer grabs the Survivor at their foot and pulls them back in has since been retired.
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I’m not sure that’s actually correct, there’s no distinction I can find in the wiki or elsewhere that says window grabs are different based on vault speeds. Fast vaults just have a shorter animation time, 0.5 seconds instead of 0.9 for a medium and 1.5 for a slow vault, so there’s a smaller window (no pun intended) to land the grab. Having only 1/3 the time to get the grab does mean you’ll see it a lot less often than with a medium, it’s not impossible though.
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The worst thing is that the perk can still force lose/lose situations for the killer and in those cases - the survivor gains more distance than before.
DH used optimally today: Killer eats 1.5s missed attack cooldown and survivor gains 4m.
DH used optimally now: Killer eats 2.8s successful attack cooldown and survivor gains ~12m
The 'distance' aspect of the perk is actually GREATER if used correctly.
This being said, the most frustrating thing about it - as stated - is that it is FREE.
It can be used at any time without any repercussions to consider.
There are no drawbacks. It can be used at any time for any reason without consequence - and can be utilized to force the killer into impossible-to-win interactions.
In honesty, they didn't even need to nerf the dash or invincibility - all they needed to do was make the user PAY for its employment. If you use Dead Hard, you must be READY to deal with the consequences. Until they add payment to counterbalance its strengths, the perk will remain broken until they otherwise give it the Ruin treatment and mori it.
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I find it interesting that they changed the distance aspect of dead hard due to it being uncounterable. The common idea with exhaustion perks is that the survivor gets distance so they can get to a different loop, break chase, or carelessly put themself in a dead zone. Sprint burst does this, overcome does this, lithe, etc. The issue with Dead Harding for distance seems more about how it can be used whenever, *without* meeting a requirement that adequately limits it.
Maybe if it only worked while broken? It‘ll still be a great perk in action, just with harsher conditions for use that limit it's desirability in the meta.
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dead hard will grant sprint bursts like every other exhaustion perk(excluding head on which only grants 3 second, the time it takes for killer recover from a hit).
Dead hard in theory is still best exhaustion perk, but its skill-cap is way way higher now. not many survivors will be able to use dead hard for guaranteed value like it was previously.
The other exhaustion perks like sprint burst, lithe etc. have a much easier trigger condition. I would imagine most of the player's playing survivor will move to these way easier exhaustion perks.
Veteran players that are good at looping don't really need exhaustion perks to loop m1 killers with basic tile design. the basic pallet design for survivor is already survivor-sided as is. The main threats for survivor at higher-levels of play is anti-loop killer powers.
Killers like Nurse's blink, Blight's lethal rush, Trickster's blades, huntress hatchets, Artist crows etc. etc. are main threats/difficult for playing survivor and dead hard will still be strongest second chance perk against killer powers.
so for people that say: "Oh yeah, dead hard, its just dead perk, nobody will use it". think again.
I think the better survivor players will still use it, but pick-rate of the perk will go drastically down, especially at lower-levels of MMR.
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One thing that I'm little bit concerned about is that although current deathslinger is trash killer in current iteration of the game, His redeemer does counter new dead hard.
I'm fairly certain that there will be killer posts about deathslinger is weak and eventually. I do see them changing deathslinger. It won't happen any time soon, I mean it took 2 years for them to revert the very basic legion changes, but I'm fairly certain that say in 2024 or whatever, there will be a mid-chapter patch regarding his add-ons, and you'll see something like "Changed Tin-Oil can to decrease scope time by 0.2 seconds" and changed "Gold Creek Whiskey no longer requires aim down sight to reduce terror radius by 8 meters".
I might fear slinger without old dead hard in the very distant future of DBD. that's going to be an interesting experience in 2 years time.
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Window grabs only exist for slow and medium vaults; on a fast vault you cannot grab the survivor even if they're injured.
On pallets you can grab an injured survivor on any vault.
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Again, from what I can tell you can grab someone out of a fast vault, it’s just a much smaller period of time so doesn’t happen often.
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Oh yea, as a Legion main, I am loving the new Dead Hard.
Current Dead Hard. You're in a Frenzy, closing, closing, SWING and MISS because he just used Dead Hard... he got distance and you missed and are now stunned out of your Frenzy.
BUT new Dead Hard? Closing, closing, swing and hit... oh he's used Dead Hard, he had the Endurance effect so you applied a deep wound... that suc... wait... You're a Legion... your hits in a Frenzy already apply a Deep Wound, so you're fine... continue on to the next survivor as normal. The fact that he has Dead Hard means NOTHING to Legion now because Legion can ignore the new Dead Hard the same as they do Borrowed Time. Even if you Dead Hard the 5th hit, you're still going down. Legion in a Frenzy ignores Endurance effects completely.
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I think Legion's fifth hit doesn't ignore deep wound, it just becomes an instant down. If you use the fifth hit on someone currently affected by BT or a styptic, I think they get out safely.
It also appears from the PTB you can use Dead Hard while already in deep wound and you'll stay in deep wound so Legion doesn't counter it nearly as much as I thought they would. I suck at survivor though so I wasn't able to confirm that because I suck at timing the Dead Hard in general.
It'll definitely be better for Legion for hits 1-4 as someone won't be able to Dead Hard to interrupt your chain hits from frenzy anymore.
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Hmm, good point. That's actually maybe something I should see if a streamer or someone can test that...
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- You can greed loops even with the old DH
- It takes good prediction/reaction time (skill) on m1 killers and its good vs nurse and blight
- Yes the new DH can greed windows and pallets aswell but its better than dashing to it with "i" frames after you get outplayed
- The whole purpose the the rework was to make it used less
- Get good (joke)
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You know, seeing it in action now I think if Endurance stacking is removed (i.e. a sort of Exhaustion mechanic for Endurance where you can not activate multiple of them in quick succession - maybe make it so you can not get Endurance while inflicted with Deep Wound) the Perk is actually fine.
Because in that case while it would still be a free third healthstate any time you need it, said third healthstate would however have some restrictions / downsides attached to it that might warrant its very strong effect.
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good thing i play deathslinger lmaooo
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