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Not an esport don't try to make it one
balancing the game around 2 survivors escaping is just going to piss off killer and survivor and make the game unfun. Adding game mechanics that force killers to play a certain way is bad, insecure, lazy game design - if all you are concerned about is the survivor experience then hire a team to create a decent killer AI that plays exactly how you want them to.
When did this game become hide and seek instead of a horror game?
If people are so upset that they're being camped or tunneled as a survivor then the real problem is that person is more concerned about continuing to play hide and seek than they are about actually "beating" the killer and getting the win for their team. This is very obviously the real problem here - even though survivors have the advantage in 4 swf (even without perks) they are only happy if they get to ######### on the killer instead of managing to get their team out alive.
Maybe solve that problem before buffing body blocking and adding more survivor perks that let them get right in the killers face and ######### on them
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too late, once the tourneys and money started, it will never stop.
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sorry if im harsh i just need to get this out
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I totally understand. Vent if you must.
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The game has to be balanced around something, e-sport or no. Two out, two dead seems like a pretty decent target to me, that allows both for the competitively minded and the more casually inclined to have a shot at enjoying the game.
What alternative did you have in mind?
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The balance around 2 kills 2 escapes is an average. This game is prone to snowballing so 2k/2e is never going to happen consistently.
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What are you rambling and whining about??? How is balancing for a 2k/2e going to piss off anyone? When I play killer, I'm happy to get 2 kills. When I play survivor, I'm happy if even ONE of my teammates lives, let alone 2.
People who camp and tunnel to secure kills are the ones who are trying to make the game an E sport because they're tossing FUN out the window to compensate for their lack of ability to secure kills and all they care about is securing kills as if it's an E sport and their stats are being tracked and they aren't going to get paid unless they try their hardest to secure a kill. I agree the game is not an E sport, so why care about kills so much instead of just enjoying the chases and having fun?
Being upset about being camped and tunneled has nothing to do with wanting to hide? How did you draw that conclusion. It's irritating to wait for a match, load into that match, and then not get to participate in said match because some dingus cares so much about securing kills that they forget games are supposed to be fun
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imo the idea it needs to be balanced around something is wrong. Of course we don't want the killers to be impossible to win against so they should individually be adjusted so that they're both fun and possible to win against.
A major problem however is that there isn't really a definition of what a "win" is in this game. Many people think the two out two dead is fair because.. well... on the surface it seems like 50% of kills would be fair. The issue is that to most killers this does not feel like a win, at least it doesn't feel that way to me. If I was responsible for this game I would place much more incentive on trying to escape as a team and have different degrees of winning - right now bloodpoints are the only validation players have for whether or not they've won and ideally I would change that. There are varying degrees of victory in this game so there should probably be varying degrees of rewards as well - some variation of team points awarded based on how many of your team escaped that could be spent differently than bloodpoints. This would be the bare minimum for me however, I think the blood web/ bloodpoints/purchasing perks is terribly outdated and gatekeeps new players too hard
For the record I have more time as survivor than I do as killer, I think my hours are probably something like 140-90 so I wouldn't presume to call myself an expert on either, I'm just saying what I've felt over the last few weeks as I've put most of my hours on killer recently and overall I would say the experience is much more frustrating and much less fun than survivor overall.
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Just to head one thing off at the top of the order here- there is a defined idea of what a win is. Three or more kills as killer, escaping as survivor. Those are the win conditions, it's not ambiguous.
To tackle everything else: When you say that killers should be adjusted so they're possible to win against, that's balancing. The game needs to be balanced or the people who want to approach it more casually are going to have a worse time, not a better one.
As someone else pointed out, the 50% escape rate isn't actually two out, two dead in every match, that's partially my bad for phrasing it that way. It's an average- two games, one where every survivor escapes and one where every survivor dies, would still give a 50% kill rate on average, and that's more where the devs seem to be looking. Which is a good thing, because you're right- a 2k is a draw for the killer, not a win, and that'd suck.
There are also degrees of winning and losing, to be fair. The emblem system will give you different score depending on your points, so there's absolutely such a thing as winning with high points and winning with low points.
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Not feeling like a win to YOU is a personal issue though. It doesn't matter how it feels to you. 50% out and 50% dead is a good balance for an asymmetrical game to aim for
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2k/2e will piss off everyone because it is impossible to balance every killer for that ratio. At high levels of play there are maybe a few killers who can secure that kill ratio.... at low levels of play there are even fewer because knowledgeable survivors have the advantage.
The reason perks NOED exists is to achieve some balance for otherwise useless killers who wouldn't get any kills at all - but its only use is for end game which is bad design because it basically says the beginning and middle of the game was irrelevant. The reason why you get a lot of campers/tunnelers is because many killers literally give up on the chase/hunt and try to get a team kill from preying on rescue attempts. This isn't fun for the killer or survivor - it's just a result of poor game design.
I mean seriously, have you played killer? Maps get abused so hard now it's possible to loop for days against most killers. Maybe a balance for this would be for the entity to block any window thats recently been used if survivors now get a free borrowed time
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DBD is 100% a game of tag or hide and seek, just with a few mundane objectives added.
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I don't think thats true. It feels fine for survivor because it feels like a win. 2k/2e is not fine for killer because it inherently doesn't feel like a tie. If you took a poll of the killer playerbase I would also be very surprised if 3k felt explicitly like a win.
Conversely, 1 escape feels like a win if you're a survivor. 2 escape feels somewhat good as survivor even if you're not one of them. 3 escape almost feels like a complete victory if you're not the survivor who died.
This is the problem in my eyes, and it's a substantial problem because the feeling of the gameplay will reflect how the game is played. It's obviously off balance already which is why we don't get a variety of different killers and why people camp/tunnel
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Yes, as far as I'm aware the game is balanced around 2k/2e being the average game. Given the nature of this game that is very different from the game being balanced around that explicitly as an average, ie (4k one game, 0k the next game, average of 2k/2e). I would rather it be the latter over the former for the reasons I've given in previous posts about how 2k/2e feels like a win rather than a loss to most survivors and a tie at best to killer.
To be more specific about balancing, I think killers should simply be balanced around their win rates (which you can call 3+ kills but I'm not sure if the devs feel the same way) rather than maintaining the 2k/2e ratio as I previously believed they were, now I'm not so sure. This is sort of what I was trying to say but honestly the difference in opinion over what constitutes a win is making it difficult to make my point.
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high level being the highest level of killer and survivor play.
low level being average competitive play. At low levels of competitive play where both sides know what they're doing 4 swf have a huge advantage and there are very few killer/perk combos available that can counter. Not to mention some maps are just impossible for some killers to even get close to victory.
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Have I played killer? Yes.... yes I have. And if what you said earlier about your playtime ("140 - 90" is your hours as survivor and killer respectively, then I have roughly 4x as much experience on killer than you have your total playtime combined.
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If anyone thinks this game is or can ever be an e-sport... I mean, seriously uninstall the game and starting thinking in doing something with your life, maybe uninstalling allows you to see the bright side of things.
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It's not the tourneys it's the players. If the players never got sweaty and played swfs all the time, then they could treat it like a casual game. That's not how the players treat it though.
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Then maybe you have too much time logged and can't see how frustrating and unbalanced the game can be for most players
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Dbd is always "not an esport" until someone wants "counterplay"
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the game is a bully simulator. bullies want to bully the killer because let's be honest, the game is stale and boring to constantly do gen simulator. i do get that not every survivor is like this. but its more common and not. the game stimulates this behavio(u)r pun intended. this isn't a hide and seek game, it's a taunt and chase game. killers can punish if they're good and bring all dirty tactics like tunneling, camping. which is sometimes understandble, again the game lets them do this. we see the worst human behaviour come alive in this game. nothing new if u ask me. cause lots of game have some type of toxicity. somehow this game has that bully aspect built into as well
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exactly... it takes nothing to go from a survivor-sided game to 4 skull icons... and that happens mostly with solo Q. People dying after the first person is hooked because they all run to unhook the person at the same time, etc
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It's not an eSport. Never will be. But let's not forget the only online matchmaking game modes are Ranked matches. Always have been too.
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im taking you never played hockey?
its competitive.
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This game is not an esport:
Killer processes to tunnel a survivor as fast as they can for World record.
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Do you really have the audacity to say the devs have a lazy game design because they change their game and the QoL of it in the ways they see fit (mind you based on the stats they have)?
This is their game and they can change it however they want without having to take anything their community says into account, yet they do. Since when is looping a killer playing a game of hide-and-seeking? Like what are you even on about? There is no "beating the killer" other than looping them and the others doing gens to escape.
Every match is called a 'trail', not a camping ground. Speaking of being lazy.
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Seriously? There are people that don't think the devs are lazy? Even before this update people complained for years about how OP survivor perks are without them changing them. Zero new game modes, can't even be bothered to remove blood point limit, I'm assuming their servers are failing based on the universal increases in lag lately, etc etc
It's a fun game even if I have gripes, but I'll call the devs lazy straight to their face
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I wouldn't really call them ranked matches tbh since you stay in a bracket once you push through to it. It's a fun goal to achieve but really you just gotta play enough games and you will naturally max your rank
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Dont worry they made that last streamer tourney so complicated and bad most main stream streamers will never touch this game again.
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But the 2k/2e is on a much more broader scale... think like 3 months to 6 months not per match
If they can achieve it then that's good for them...
If they can get the average to be 2k/2e then they should be able to see Killer balance (in general)
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