General Discussions
General Discussions
Gen speed nerf is useless and a joke
Adding 10 secs more to complete a gen, and kicking gens now removes 2.5% of gen progress (just 2 secs lol). Do you think these changes are enough justify completely destroying gen defense perks? Survivors get a mini basekit BT, why don't killer's get basekit Corrupt? Killers still have to reserve one perk slot for Corrupt Intervention at all times. Killers will still have to rely on 3-4 gen defense perks (just different ones) to stand a chance against good teams.
Honestly i wouldn't even touch gen speed, it's fine (it's not fun for a survivor to sit on a gen for 90 secs). What i would do is get rid of god pallets and time waste loops, that have zero mind game, so the killer doesn't have to waste time while survivors slam out gens.
Comments
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I'd imagine they didn't add basekit Corrupt because it wouldn't uniformly benefit all killers, and therefore isn't as objectively a good idea as basekit BT.
I do think you're perhaps being premature, though. A cumulative extra 50 seconds before all generators are done is pretty nice, it'll give killers more time to interrupt a repair and get some pressure without really making it super noticeable on the survivor side; an extra ten seconds isn't that much when you'd already be committing 80, and that's only if you're doing it solo start to finish.
There are also still plenty of gen defence perks? Heck, even some of the nerfed ones are still good- Corrupt is still going to be fantastic on killers with a slow start, and Pop will still be pretty okay. It's basically only Ruin that got sledgehammered here.
Maps do need work, but this change isn't useless- especially combined with the chase buffs.
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Why so melodramatic?
1. The only perks that got significantly nerfed are Ruin and Pop. The whole point of which is to break up the meta to make other slowdown perks more viable. Some are even getting substantial buffs, such as Jolt and Overcharge.
2. The increase to gen speed has compound effects. While the time it takes them to be repaired has been increased by 12.5%, that also means all regression and slowdown perks have been indirectly buffed by 12.5% too, as well as indirectly nerfing toolboxes by 11%.
If they merely made gens take longer without nerfing the meta regression perks, it would just make those perks even stronger, as they would also give you 12.5% more value. Causing killers to double down on the meta even more.
Besides, the base changes actually make the changes to Pop neutral on a near-completed gen. 20% +12.5% indirect buff +2.5% base kick regression = 25% relative regression.
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I feel like most killer players just want gens to be impossible to repair, the +10 seconds and 2.5% kick regression is great
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10 secs can do alot they only need to nerf Prove Thyself this Perk will be Busted After so many Gen Regression Perks nerfed Prove thyself let the Gen flys i dont understand how they want to make Gens Speed longer butnot nerfing Prove thyself
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This so much. I don't think people realize how much of a difference that makes. How many times as a killer for example have you had someone pop a gen in your face that you would have stopped if there was just one more second of time? Then people complain about prove thyself when it makes more sense for survivors to split up. And that's disregarding that there's multiple gen perks that are going to make that harder; there's legit multiple perks that will blow up the gens causing them to lose progress or kick them off the gen to give you even more time to arrive. The 2.5% makes it worth it to kick gens. And if you are positioning your hooks good to where it discourages them from popping a high progress gen it's gonna lose a lot more progress in addition to that.
I'd like BNP to still be changed though. It is still unhealthy post-nerf. It should just make repairs much more quiet permanently on that gen.
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What do you want them to do? Make gens 2 minutes long? Killers got what they've wanted with there changes, you have serious problems if you don't think these killer buffs arnt good. I know you're an entitled killer main but dot let bias effect game balance
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Too many people are underestimating these changes. I have seen a ridiclous number of posts about how useless basekit bt 5 seconds is on top of the haste. Then there the killer crowd screaming bloody murder over the perk regression changes.
This patch is going to seriously change up dbd. Overall these changes are great. I believe theres a healthy number of changes some perk changes are worrying but id rather the team takes chances and trim back powerful perks as we use them.
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I tend to run light on the gen defense, these changes are overall amazing. The 2.5% kicking and the +10 seconds are going to be a huge help. I actually love the Corrupt changes, they kept it good for the killers that need it but kinda gave the finger to Nurse and Blight.
I'm also happy that survivors get some kind of base BT.
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I never use corrupt and I do completely fine most of the time.
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10 second extra generator repair time is equivalent to pre nerf forever Freddy addons (Swing Chains+Jump Rope) with max stacks (12% slowdown). I dont think this is a useless nerf.
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damn you already have access to the changes? How'd you get an early access build?
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Is this a joke?
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You have been crying about this for days... you will be much more effective in chases, you won't have any chase-counters nor will you lose survs anymore because they use IW... what else do you want?
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They want easy kills.
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Ehh might is the right word to use there. There's still HORRIBLY balanced maps like badham, RPD, and gideons... BHVR doesn't realize maps can also carry and not just perks.
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"justify completely destroying gen defense perks"
You still have Call of brine, new Overcharge and buffed Jolt.
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90 seconds is fine I don't want balance if it makes gameplay for one side boring
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I am not even gonna reading this. Don't call it a joke till you saw PTB footage or tried it out yourself. They changed so many things, we will have to see how it all comes together.
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Pain resonance in its current state dosen't fix that. Nothing short of a nuke every map would fix how poorly designed they are. The point of next patch is to encourage killers and survivors to move away from old crutches. To give more room for killer's to engage in non tunneling activities and give survivors powerful tools to discourage it. In time they can fix the maps and find a way to actually make good maps but they cant upturn half the maps in a single patch that's impossible so more gen time and a meta shake up is a fantastic substitution.
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But lot of times you get quick down with m1 killers too they should just nerfed blight and nurse and that should been just basekit corrupt with changes and actual perk would still be like it used to be.
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Don't be same as survivors saying 5 sec basekit BT is useless, because it's not.
Both changes are valid.
50 seconds of extra time without any perks is not valid for you?
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They buffed most of the killer gen speed perks. Ruin was nerfed, but Pop is still ok and Scourge Hook is actually regressing slightly more total seconds per trigger now than before. Corrupt is slightly weaker but still ok too.
All the rest of the killer gen perks are either buffed or the same.
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Walking up to a generator on maps like Red Forest and Eyerie Of crows takes 15-20s. And it's not "50 secs of extra time without any perks" it's after nerfing gen regression perks.
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Gen Speeds weren't nerfed... Gen times were
A Survivor still puts in the same amount of charges per second
Base Gen regression is still crap (.25 charges per second) while yes they did add a 2.5% onto Gen regressing which helps... but still
They said that they were going to change the meta and they did... now it's up to us players to play with these changes to see what can be next
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Maybe we should wait for the PTB? There are too many changes to get the big picture about gen speed vs chase duration.
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You do realize there is 1 vanilla killer mechanic trumping you're entire "some windows or pallets dont need mindgames": Bloodlust alone guarantees you're going to get a hit, even if you lost 100% of your mindgames. You need to start mindgaming yourself, aka be winning mindgames for survivors, to be not getting any hits.
If we're gonna delete all survivor mechanics that dont need mindgames, then we need to delete all killer mechanics that dont need mindgames.
Survivor in a corner while you're Plague, Billy, Trapper, or Bubba? Now survivors can walk through you if you bodyblock them in that corner. No more free instadowns. Survivor being forced to drop down and take a hit due to stagger or not drop down and take a hit? No longer, there were 0 mindgames involved on either side and always leads to a hit. So now, if a survivor stands still for longer than 2 seconds, they gain stagger immunity for the next 2 seconds. Bloodlust? Well, you'd literally only get it when you lose mindgames, so also removed. Let me think, what else... Oh yeah, Killers now move at 100% in straight lines while in chase, because otherwise you'd hit a survivor in the next 25 seconds with nothing they can do to prevent it, thats a free hit with 0 mindgames. Protection hits now no longer injure survivors, they correctly timed when and where you would be to prevent the other survivor from being downed. That is good strategy from their part and deserves to be rewarded by not injuring them. Also, survivors will be color coded red, yellow, blue and green, each survivor has their own set of pallets that they can see and use, whenever a pallet is broken, their color will be removed from your pallets. This is so survivors cannot be forced into deadzones where pallets have already been used by a teammate, meaning you cannot get a free hit on a random survivor anymore /s
As a gamedesigner, its horrible game design if your player has to keep track of every single detail on the map. So you have to design certain locations that a survivor can exhaust untill the window is blocked, pallet is being dropped, wall is being broken. You'd need about 2 locations like this on a map. Mainly killer shack and main building. They are not free though. Once you get rid of a wall or a pallet, suddenly that chase is a lot smaller and easier to get hits on.
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Useless? No. A joke? No. Good? No.
It's something but I doubt it's gonna be enough especially since they nerfed a lot of slowdown perks.
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Least entitled killer main. It's 12.5% extra gen time and an indirect buff to Jolt, Eruption, Pain Res as they all regress a percentage of 90s instead of 80s as before.
Killers that run mainly chase and info perks literally only got buffs. Try running I'm all ears instead of pain res on your nurse.
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Just look at the gen increase as a bonus cause they havent nerfed the slowdown meta, sure they nerfed Pop and Ruin but then buffed half a dozen other gen slowdown perks.
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gen speeds are an absolute clown rodeo of a joke. These changes won't fix the problem.
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Agreed.
Certain perks like surveillance + brutal strength got A LOT better despite not getting buffed because kicking generators is significantly stronger. Combine that with new overcharge? That just sounds nasty. Overall at bare minimum it is 50 seconds longer they have to work which is 12.5 seconds more per survivor at MINUMUM, that's a lot of time. Catch them near the end and kick? It's a generator they otherwise would have completed but now don't have and it's a lot more then 50 seconds.
This change is quite large and I think people are underestimating the effects. I already felt surveillance was a little underrated with certain combinations. Now? It's very strong for sure. It's no longer countered by merely tapping a gen.
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People say those changes are useless because Guardian and BT do very little with a camping tunneler, assuming you can even get the rescue in the first place. It depends on many factors, but there's no need to pretend 5s BT and Haste are compelling.
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What a disgusting post.
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He's not wrong. Killers get a 90% nerfed pop basekit. Pop was nerfed to the point where it wont be used anymore.
Meanwhile survivors got 5/12ths strength BT. Base kit Bt should be 1.2 seconds.
The problem is that gen speeds now with A+ gen defense perks is better than Super nerfed perks and +10 seconds generator completion time.
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Ruin and Pop were nerfed... with other perks being buffed
On paper Ruin won't be as effective as it once was... Pop will still be used... the others well that depends on other factors
But in practice AKA players actually playing the new update things might change or they might not
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Killer mains got so much this patch. Longer gen times, buffed bloodlust, buffed kicking/breaking/m1 cooldown, increased gen regression when kicked, and I still see these posts. Killer mains just want everything nerfed because means they're not getting easy 4ks every game (survivor mains are just as bad). But it's just complaining that the buffs aren't enough, that base kit borrowed time will ruin the game for killers for whatever reason, demanding all maps be reworked and have pallets reduced on all maps, and the list goes on and on and on LOLOLOL JEEEEESUSSSSSSS. People play this game like they're actually getting paid to or something XD
Maybe wait until some games in the PTB get played before posting yet another post the Devs no doubt ignore. Thats the whole point of a PTB... so see if there need to be changes BEFORE it goes live... They're already tweeking spine chill again after its proposed rework and the PTB hasn't even started so nothing is super set in stone.
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Tldr bt is one of the most popular powerful perks in dbd it dosent do nothing.
Wait bt does very little? Why would anyone use it if it did little. If a killer is going to tunnel there going to tunnel/camp. Nothing short of putting the survivor in a safety box in a corner of a map is gonna protect the survivor. Tunneling and camping is being discouraged in a nuanced way. By giving the killer more time to actually hunt. Its the carrot apporach for once.
We try discouraging killers with bt and ds and whilst it helped killers still tunnel and camp. (Though some people will call a tunnel even after 5-8 hooks.) Distance and a gurranteed bt health state gives a confirmed reason for a killer to change targets. The unhooker still has to present a chase and not just disapper and leave the unhooker to fend for themselves but hey still the killers fault right?
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I was hoping they would gut all gen regression perks, but 10 extra seconds on each gen by itself is nothing, it looks like slowdown will still be mandatory which doesn't seem like much of a meta shakeup to me.
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I never said it does nothing. Usage rates don't make something great. Usage rates are sometimes a reflection of necessity rather than power. Anything can be great when there are no other viable options. So the choice is not to go with nothing but something - even if that something doesn't go far enough. And because that something is your only choice, doesn't mean it's great at accomplishing what it sets out to do.
I agree that nothing can truly stop camping and tunneling, but I disagree that pretending a five-second speed boost is a game-changer. Especially when an eight-second one often doesn't achieve much. Not to mention a 150% speed boost for five seconds. It's a nice change but no one should pretend five seconds is going to discourage tunneling.
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It's really simple changes that could change everything for the better and killers i feel always get scraps of good changes, survivor is so over buffed it's ridiculous, ever growing anger and disappointment
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Yeah because most of the times a gen is done before you even find someone.
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