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"Grind rework" is worse for one character players?
According to recently released patch notes - "The teachable rarity is no more. Now, perks are tied directly to prestige."
Does this mean that for someone who plays only one character, instead of
Previously: You need to get new character from the recent chapter to level 40 (to get all 3 teachables) and get 5-6 levels on your "main" (to get these perks and level them to tier 3).
Now: You need to get new character to level 50 (to prestige them and get lvl 1 teachables on your "main") and get 4-5 levels on your "main" (to get these perks from tier 1 to tier 3).
Asked about that on Reddit and Twitter and didnt recieve any clarification on this, so devs, since you are reading the forums, please give some sort of clarification on this, if i am misunderstanding something, thank in advance.
Comments
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Short answer, yes, by a lot.
Long answer:
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The grind was never that bad for 1 character players. The all characters all perks grind was the one growing at an exponential rate. 1 character all perks required, for each new dlc, leveling one character to 40 and then leveling your main 5 times. Should take less than a week every 3 month cycle, and during the current event you could actually get a killer from fresh level 50 to all perks in less than a week. Doing that for every killer, though, is a several thousand hour grind which, again was growing at an exponential rate.
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So you're upset about 10 more levels per character?
Also, if you ever decide to play something else you will have all tier 1 perks unlocked for them.
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Well you don't need grind rework for one character anyway.
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It's marginally worse if you only play 1 character, due to having to level every character to 50 instead of 40. Reducing the individual characters grind by about a 3rd doesn't quite counteract that.
It turns to your credit once you start investing in 3+ characters.
Personally it's not that much of a difference because even the characters I don't play I went ahead and fave them a few more levelsn just so I could use up their event cakes or party streamers with a couple half-decent perks, so most of mine are level 50 anyway.
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My understanding is that there are no real teachable perks, so you don't need to upgrade to 40 or 50, you can start buying the perks on any character once you buy a DLC. If you level up the character to 50, then you will get tier1 perk on every character. But if you care only about one character, then you just continue leveling that character you care about and buy the new perks on tier 1, 2, 3. You don't need to level up the new DLC to 40 or 50 to unlock the new perks.
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We shouldn't be trying to minimalise the issue that the grind is worse for new players now, it was already one of the biggest factors that drives many players to quit the game, and disregarding those players in the grind rework is a terrible idea.
The new system is only really beneficial to someone whose goal before the change was to P3 everything and max every perk on every character. Even being someone like that, I don't think that's who a "grind rework" should be aimed at.
Catching up on 20 chapters of DLC's grind is an unbelievably long undertaking, and the only positive thing that can be said for the rework is pretty much "well now it will be better for you after you spend hundreds of hours on a worse grind than before!"
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Whats the upside of removing teachables alltogether tho? The downside is very little, but its there
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I'm going to disagree. The grind is better even if you only play a handful of characters. The only issue I see is the bonus bp being removed from BBQ and WGLF.
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The grind won't be better for an average new player on the survivor side until many chapters down the line, that's a fact. New players were never P3ing every character along the way as they collected teachables.
Killer is only slightly better, and it takes a long time to reach the point that it gets better, and with BBQ gone it's probably still a comparable grind to just locking in how bad the grind is at the moment and not getting worse.
New player progression should have been a focus for reworking the grind, not the sacrifice to make it slightly better after hundreds of hours of grinding anyway.
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Your "optimal grind calculations" are a little disingenuous.
Where you're claiming that it now takes 4 levels to unlock higher tiers per character because you get perks in a 2, 2, 1, 1 pattern is unrealistic and definitely sub optimal. You'd level multiple characters at once and consolidate them so you'd get your 2 perks out of every level.
So it's 8 extra levels per character, not 9.
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Which is at least partially (if not completely when you play at the right times) made up for by the new role incentive bonus.
Also, purchasing perks from the Shrine is now much more cost effective.
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Ok? It wasn't worse by one bloodweb though, and that also assumes that a new player is going to go "well, I unlocked 3 new perks, but I guess I'm not going to level them up at all on the character I actually play until I spend 50 more levels on another character, because I really want to save that one bloodweb!"
It also presumes that a player buys characters and chapters in bulk which certainly isn't true for everyone, as many players will only buy new characters once they've worked on the ones they currently own.
The grind is worse for new players, why bother to nitpick that fact? We should be fighting to get them to actually address the problems rather than go "that's not a problem that affects me, so ######### those new players!"
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I replied on your post. I think you don't need to level up to 50 to unlock the perks, they will appear in bloodweb immediately after buying the DLC.
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For a single character, it will take a little longer to max them out, yes, but the new system quickly takes over in efficiency as you start adding more characters. I have a write up for it here:
In short, if you want to max out just one character, you can prestige the others once for more or less the same effect (+10 levels per character compared to the current system). But if you ever get bored of that character and want to switch it up, you've wasted far fewer levels than the old system.
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if you want to max out just one character,
isn't that how most survivors play?
You need at least 6 characters to make new system worth it and you are going to need twice more games with BBQ nerfed.
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Do I have to prestige a character to be able to use its teachable perks on other characters? My assumption was that prestige gives tier1 teachable perk to everyone, and if I don't prestige it just means that I need to buy tier1 as well from the bloodweb.
So to summarize my question: Is it possible to level up only a single survivor and get all existing perks on that single survivor without leveling up the other survivors?
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To keep it short this will mostly affect survivors who already tend to focus on one player - This change will be amazing for killer players who want diverse builds with different powers.
With the change to WGLF and BBQ&CHILI one thing I feel that needs to be addressed is certain survivor actions need to give meaningful bonuses. For example bodyblocking to protect an injured player needs a bigger bonus - After all if you have to choose between death and going through the exit gates you're probably taking the gates because more BP. The reason I state this is since the grind will be initially harder for survivors because of those 10 levels I feel there needs to be a look over with BP gains. Most people I know who focus survivor just stick to one character as there's no reason to switch it up unless you like cosmetics.
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My math for everything unlocked showed a overall reduction of less than 15%. A long way from the promised 75%. Those who play limited characters really got screwed.
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Your math is wrong.
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Let's say it takes about 2M bp (and 50 bloodwebs) to get a particular character to a prestige level. (The exact number depends on how much you actually have to spend per bloodweb)
The most consistently effecient way, imo, to get tier 3 perks from another character is to dump (about) 6M bp and 150 bloodwebs into that character. Then boom, done. Doesn't take all that long to get 6M bp honestly.
If you just want to do the equivalent of 'unlocking teachables' - then you only need about 2M bp and 50 bloodwebs to do that. Getting them to tier 3 then takes an indeterminate number of bp and bloodwebs to do that, hence it being less efficient. But it's totally doable.
You don't even have to play the other character - just play whichever one you want and dump BP into whomever you're unlocking those perks on.
Not sure why everyone is all up in arms over this - it's WAY easier to get tier 3 of someone's perks unlocked (across -all- survivors/killers) whether you play just one character or not with the new prestige system.
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Can you tell us how exactly you'll be calculating the prestige catch up. Like how will you be calculating what level of prestige everyone should be that didn't prestige before the update? Some of my non-prestiged characters have max perks while others have about 50% and it varies the amount of tier 1/2/3 perks on the ones I haven't maxed out. Will the ones maxed out just be p3 with the catch up or will they be a higher prestige? Do you need to be maxed out on a character for them to be p3 in the catch up?
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This is a question I had as well that was never clarified. I'm in the same situation with a handful of killers at level 50 with all perks tier 3, and then the rest are level 50 with 1-2 pages of tier 3 perks, but none are prestiged yet. Will only my ones with all tier 3 perks go to prestige 3? And the others to just prestige 1? Most of them I feel I've invested way more than enough to prestige 3 them prior to upcoming change, but never did because I just wanted every killer with every perk tier 3. But I feel I'll have wasted a lot of time and bloodpoints on a lot of killers if they only go up a single prestige
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Thanks for the reply. Maybe you could consider lowering the prestige to 40 levels. 120 prestige levels to get to tier3 perks is still a lot and 240 levels to unlock bloody cosmetics also shows quite a lot of dedication.
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According to you.
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all my Killers are prestige 0, level 40 ~ 50.
what will happen to all my Tier3 perks that I already have at my Loadout? Will they continue to be Tier 3 perks, or will they become Tier 1?
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But do these smaller levels mean a decrease in the overall rarity of addons and items earned on both sides or does it balance out to be the same as if you were just level characters over and over again on level 50 bloodwebs with the same amount of points
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No?
I have about 6/7 survivors I regularly rotate between depending on who has the envelopes and party streamers, and I play survivors who have a daily ritual.
Three of them have now got just about all perks, not that they need them all, because survivors can manage without any perks. I've escaped with crap like left behind and desperate measures on characters just because that's all they had.
And BBQ is made up for by the role incentive bonus. Which I just told you on another topic.
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Which I just told you on another topic.
and I told you that chance for 0-100%, doesn't made up for 75-100% anytime player wants.
I have about 6/7 survivors
that doesn't negate my statement. I didn't say all.
I can talk only for myself and my group. I play only Jeff, all other survivors are level 40. Then we have Kate, Meg and Claudette.
Most players simply don't have reason to change many survivors. I can understand 2/3 survivors, but with that number you still need more BP than with current system.
So it just got worse for most survivors.
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My understanding is whatever you've unlocked will stay unlocked, so your current perk inventory will remain unchanged. Though without the prestige you may not have the perks automatically available on anyone you didn't already have them on.
From "Transitioning to The New System"
It's also important that you don’t lose anything when the system is updated. You will keep any perks and bloody prestige cosmetics that you’ve already unlocked.
I'm curious about this as well. The update post said it was based on tiers unlocked already, so I'm assuming something like yellow perks = 1 Tier, green perks = 2, purple perks =3.
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And again, you're looking at it from the view of a player long past the point of being hurt by these changes.
New players don't max out 6 different characters while they still have teachables that they're trying to collect and content they don't have access to, and those are the players who the grind just got significantly longer for.
The selfish attitude of some players, that a problem isn't a problem if it doesn't affect them specifically, is frankly disgusting.
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Caution: Internet Math
31 Survivors totaling 93 perk with 279 perk tiers and 14 global perks with 42 perk tiers. Total of 321 perk tiers.
Current Grind for 1 survivor all perks
- Estimated 1,058,000 bp for level 1-40 for 30 survivors.
- When main survivor reaches level 50 they should have 62 perk tiers unlocked. (At least stopping at Level 42 until more perks are unlocked) Estimated 1,466,000 bp.
- Main survivor would have to grind 130 Level 50 bloodwebs for the remaining perk tiers.
Current Totals
- Main Survivor: Level 1-49: 1,466,000 bp
- Main Survivor: Level 50-180: 6,444,000 bp
- Other Survivors: Level 1-40: 1,058,000 bp x 30 = 31,740,000 bp
- Total: 39,650,000 bp
Rework Grind for 1 survivor all perks
- Estimated 1,516,000 bp for level 1-50 for 30 survivors.
- When main survivor reaches level 50 they should have 62 perk tiers unlocked. (At least stopping at Level 42 until more perks are unlocked) Estimated 1,466,000 bp. Level 50 web estimated 50k bp. Total: 1,516,000 per prestige.
- Main Survivor would have to grind 85 bloodwebs for the remaining perk tiers. (3 perk tiers are automatically unlocked by leveling other survivors)
Rework Totals
- Main Survivor: Level 1-50: 1,516,000 bp (perk tiers 3-64 + 90 from unlocks)
- Main Survivor: P1-1 - 50: 1,516,000 bp (perk tiers 155-215)
- Main Survivor: P2-1 - 50: 1,516,000 bp (perk tiers 216-276)
- Main Survivor: P3-1 - 42: 1,129,000 bp (perk tiers 277-321)
- Other Survivors: Level 1-50: 1,516,000 bp x 30 = 45,480,000
- Total: 51,157,000 bp
Conclusion
For single character grinding the grind does increase. Even though you will unlock 90 perk tiers instantly by leveling other survivors to P1 you are limited to 1 perk tier per 39 webs as you will reset back to level 1 after reaching level 50. The current grind allows 2 perk tiers per level 50 web that goes on forever.
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Yes. It's worse for one-stricks. Mostly Huntress mains.
Good. Expand your horizon, Huntress sheep. BAAAAAAAAAAA
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"New players don't max out 6 different characters..."
I did, that's the point.
I didn't just play one survivor when I started. And sure it sucked not having all the perks I wanted on the survivors I wanted but I made do with what I had.
In fact, you know why I didn't just stick with one survivor?
Because bloodweb rng meant the perks I had unlocked didn't appear on the bloodwebs of the survivors I wanted to play!
I would have gladly used tier 1 BT on Jake if he had it, but annoyingly it took about 200 bloodwebs until it appeared for him, so I had to use David instead. And so on and so on.
That's not going to be an issue for new players.
Also, new players won't need to make a beeline for David/Bubba to (hopefully, if rng allows) get WGLF/BBQ in order to maximise their grind.
So don't twist my words and give me this "selfish" #########. I had to put up with a terrible system, the new system is better. Period.
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MOST new players don't drop millions of points for no benefit, YOU are the outlier going about things in a strange way, not the norm. Just because you chose to do something incredibly inefficient doesn't mean you should be taken as the point to balance the grind around.
And again, I feel like you're just making up BS to make your own point. If you're doing anything resembling efficient perk unlocking, your first 'main' can unlock all the default perks by around level 50 anyway, so any new teachables you unlock can be obtained on them instantly. The only way you need "200 wEbS" to find a perk you want is if you were leveling up a new character to main after already unlocking 16 full characters worth of teachables, hardly part of the new player experience at that point, just random griping about how the bloodweb works that isn't relevant to the conversation at all.
This is completely right. This is how most players would progress the survivor side and the grind has been increased by 25%. On the killer side it's better than before because maxing out all the characters actually has some benefit, but takes an immensely long time to pay off anyway, needs to offset the 25% increase on the survivor side, the halved rate of bloodpoint gain, and by that point even when you're seeing a benefit it's been a miserable ride to get there.
I wholly believe we're going to see more new players quitting the game early than ever before because they've been completely snubbed by this change.
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I think this is incredibly disingenuous.
Most players do not math out their most efficient route to spend their BP in order to get all perks on one character from the moment they start playing. They simply want to start playing.
They'll try out different characters, get a feel for the game first. They'll maybe ask what the best survivors to start with are and level up Claudette, Meg and Dwight, and then they'll branch out, maybe picking up David, Bill and Laurie for the meta perks everyone is telling them to run. But then they'll have a bunch of survivors with a mismatch of perks, and in order to use the right perks they'll need to play a bit of each survivor.
They might have to play Meg because she's got both Sprint Burst and Borrowed Time, plus a bunch of BP offerings to use, so they invest some more BP into Meg to round her out into a viable survivor. But then it turns out Meg doesn't have Self Care, so they go and play a bit of Claudette, invest a little BP in her to make her viable, and what do you know! Claudette has Dead Hard now! That's much better than Sprint Burst! So on and so on until you end up with a bunch of survivors with more than 50 bloodweb levels.
This is how normal players play the game. Levelling survivors is, was, an organic process, not a regimented BP spending protocol. If this is how your robot brain works, YOU are the outlier.
And with how teachables are now unlocked, this process won't be afflicted by bad bloodweb RNG forcing you to play certain survivors because of their perks. NOW you might be able to follow a more efficient levelling regimen because all survivors will have all the perks you've unlocked. NOW you have that freedom.
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I not only agree with your post.. but I agree with your post as someone with about 10k hours on PC that ended up playing 100 hours on PS5 when I got one this year for the hell of it. You know what I did on PS5? Something very similar to what you described. First started off leveling David and Bill for the meta perks, but I hate playing either of those characters so I switched to Feng because I like how she looks (but I also like Lithe occasionally). Ended up leveling them all until they had decent perks on them (except David that I left at 35 because I don't want no mither on my characters). Then I switched to Dwight to get bond/prove thyself and Meg just because I had the Amazon prime outfit lol. In the end I leveled them all until they were playable with perks that I wanted to use.
This is coming from someone that has seen everything the game has had to offer and has all characters at P3 + max perks on PC. MOST people will dabble a bit with each character that they own to get a feel for the perks and the grind has been a massive reduction for most people in general. However, even for people like me.. there's still going to be things to grind for because of the charm rewards at P7-9, but that will depend on how many levels we get with the catch-up mechanic.
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Before you, I've never heard of a player staring to play survivor, seeing how much work there is to unlock builds, and just going "whatever, I'll just randomly play and level characters whenever I feel like it."
Every single person I've ever seen star the game, and it's a lot, has gone through one character at a time unlocking teachables.
Just because your idea of progressing in a game is closing your eyes and throwing darts and seeing what you hit doesn't mean everyone is that directionless and wasteful.
Don't saboutage your own gameplay then act like everyone who comes after you is going to see a huge benefit from the new system because you assume they all can't think through how to progress the way you couldn't.
At this point you're literally just arguing that you were so inefficient in the way that you played that you wouldn't have noticed the grind getting worse with the new system. That doesn't magically make the new system better for new players when you can see multiple other people showing legitimate maths that points to it being worse.
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I've never seen a survivor start playing this game, and treat it as a career, planning their every BP spend, and refusing to attempt to even enjoy the game before they've unlocked every perk available.
The game is playable, and enjoyable, without every perk unlocked.
I've been playing for a little over a year now, I've only just got to a point where I have characters that have nearly every perk unlocked.
However I managed to level all my survivors to 40-50 some time ago. As I said, its the bloodweb RNG that held me back.
With this change, a new player can have every perk unlocked on every survivor (so that they don't have to only focus on one) in much less time.
I feel like you're doubling down on a flawed argument here in order to save face, when you really should be conceding that this change isn't actually the antichrist and has it's pros and cons.
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