Still no counter play to hatch
a survivor can still click and win the match and there's nothing the killer can do if they don't make it there first or at the same time. I really don't understand why the grab feature was taken out, I've been saying over and over simple changes could change this game for the better but it never happens.
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The grab feature was removed to prevent matches from being taken hostage - as neither player was willing to make a move, killers wouldn't hit survivors and survivors wouldn't jump into the hatch, so the game was being delayed indefinitely.
The changes made recently to the hatch, now make it much fairer - the player who finds the hatch first gets it...as it only opens when it's a 1v1.
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just play doctor or use a perk that shows slugged guy, slug last two peoples and that's about it.
If you REALLY want to kill and ALL you want is to kill, you could bleed out first survivor and hook second one immediately but that's not really rewarding imo
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Nothing to argue here, killer finds hatch first, they win, (depending on gate location and killer). Survivor finds hatch first, they win
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A hatch escape is not a win or lose and if you got to that point you already won the match by killing 3 survivors. Just let the silly survivor escape thinking they out played you for it.
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Hatch doesn't need strong counterplay.
SWF will often over-altruistically go for risky saves instead of play for hatch (especially now that "DC for hatch" is punished).
Solo survivors who get stomped need hatch. (Sure, it will slightly boost their MMR and potentially put them in "brackets" they don't "deserve," but A) those players will not escape every time and fall back into the bracket they belong in, and B) it gives survivors a way to get out of "new player hell" should they lose too many matches and fall into a bracket they don't belong in only to get stuck there)
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Honestly something like that existing seems weird for PvP game.
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They nerfed keys into 99.9% complete uselessness. Hatch doesn't need counterplay after that, might as well just remove it that point.
I've always been subjective on both sides of killer/survivor, but man are killers showing they are the entitled ones and will just whine about anything and everything lately after the announcement of the last patch that is HEAVILY in their favor.
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We're you not around in the days when you couldn't close the hatch?
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I mean why survivors suddenly deserves to have a chance for escape literally handed for free in already lost game? killers don't have anything like that as a basekit.
I just don't get it, when survivors are winning they deserves to escape with four without any consequence, but when killer is winning there is still 50/50 RNG factor for 4k?
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Are you really complaining about losing one survivor to hatch? A hatch killer can close. A hatch which killer most times finds first because they move faster and don't have to worry about being chased while finding it? The grab was removed because killers can close hatch. Even if a survivor has a key they added an animation for them to be able to open it so its now even harder. And even with all that plenty of killers still slug the third person and look for the fourth. Such fun. Hatch is fine.
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We understand that you guys want it to be fair but shouldn't cockiness be... discouraged? I mean we can't do anything with people teabagging at exit gates so shouldn't we be able to basically get one last shot if they decide to stick around just to be rude?
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Basically saying that both grab and a hatch stomp wouldn't be a bad idea. They'll just leave or they'll suffer the consequence of THEIR actions.
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you can still hit the survivor, you can also close the hatch if you find it first and start EGC.
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Since emblems encourage you to try getting 4k instead of 3k, it's definitely expected to have a complaint like that.
If hatch is REALLY that negligible aspect, BHVR should've removed everything that requires 4k long ago.
Hard or not doesn't really matter, it's literally a win handed for free, like survivors can literally hide entire matches within lockers and still deserves to "escape", which just doesn't makes sense.
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Getting hatch is not always due to a lost game though. Sometimes people just leave and leave their teammates behind. Or let's say you have Pig's RBT on and no time to go through all the boxes then hatch is your best shot. The last one was definitely the to-go strat against AFK Pig.
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maybe it should only happen when all generators are done and there is only one survivor then, now it's actually "fair" as in at least survivors worked for it.
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Yes but if we don't find it first and yet they stick around just to be a sore winner... we just have to stand there and take it?
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Lets play Jeopardy DBD!!
GAME MECHANICS:
Counterplay to Survivors using Hatch.
"What is closing the Hatch?"
Correct! 200 BPs, wanna continue?
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Had many killers standing on the hatch and closing it in front of me.
There are always 2 sides of the coin...
Its already hard enough if the killer kills the 3th survivor and gets advantage of finding the hatch.
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Yup, just remove hatch at that point. There are so many factors that make hatch a complete non-factor if this were the case.
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I mean, it does makes sense in a way because if they don't do it you could stick to the gates and immediately start opening it when killer closed the hatch, resulting in escape.
It's similar to slugging last two person, feels pretty bad to take but actually just a "counter".
That also works too.
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Yeah, i mean when a survivor stand there, its just tactic, cause he wants some more bloodpoints before leaving the match. Its just a tactic and not toxic.
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It just is what it is. There doesn't need to be a reason for it. You've already technically won at that point. Hatch is a fun mechanic for both sides IMO. Giving hatch to be nice, looking for it to leave/get the 4k...I dunno. Hatch was only problematic with keys and multiple people getting out. Now? Complete non-issue. Just another layer of DBD.
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The counterplay is getting there first.
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When do people start to understand that not everything needs counterplay?
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It is not handed for 'free'. If you don't kill the fourth survivor before they found hatch that is you 'failing' to get the 4k. That survivor survived. And who even cares about emblems anymore? Hatch has been an option since the beginning of the game. Surviving has been built around leaving the trial optimally by gens powering the door but alternatively through the hatch. Just because you kill 3 survivors and stop the final gen(s) does not entitle you to a 4k. Just like powering the gates does not entitle survivors to a 4 escape.
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Honestly? that might as well be true, because literally everyone waits in the gates as much as possible.
It's game problem really.
Yeah, it's just extremely strange when you see it from PvP game perspective, probably sandbox things.
It's a chance handed for free because it's a chance for escape literally came from nowhere.
I NEVER fail at 4k if I really want to, so I'm not complaining it has no counterplay, just saying all those "counter" things are literally waste of time for everyone and better not be encouraged.
Also, considering emblem ALWAYS appears after you finish a match as a killer, I'm pretty sure there is a lot more people caring about emblems than someone who don't care about it.
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This just creates a prolonged match.
This was thought about but a survivor in that scenario can just walk about the map touching gens and hide when they see Or hear the killer. Without tracking perks the match could go on for a silly amount of time.
You underestimate how much survivors would hide and move around trying to slowly grind out the gens as the old hatch standoff where each side wpuld stubbornly stare at each other for over 1h showed how stubborn each side can be.
Personally I would rather have a 50/50 chance and finish with a 3k. The hatch mechanic afterall is a way to end the game quicker not to grant a free escape or kill. It's the fairest way so each side can move on to the next match.
Now they could just start the egc when its down to the last survivor but then high mobility killers could become more meta and the door rng would need looked at, this could make m1 killers less viable at that point otherwise it would be a guaranteed kill for some killers.
This would also mean a potential for more 4ks which seems great but that slowly starts to puts the kill ratio up and could lead to more killer nerfs to reach the 50% kill/escape rate, always be careful what you wish for.
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Don’t even bother hitting them, if you get that close just go to close the hatch under their feet.
Not that this feels like a big deal. I think I’ve literally only had one survivor ever just stand around on a hatch and not go down until I got close.
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We'll just agree to disagree then. If you're still alive once the killer kills the other four then the killer both failed to find you and remove you from the game. Is that a survivors problem? Hatch was built into the game as an alternative way to escape. You might power the last gen right before the third survivor dies. I've done this many times over the years. Now, have I earned hatch? If I do two-three gens, make saves, run the killer have I earned hatch? The concept of 'free' is a made up terminology to excuse any game mechanic killers don't like.
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Uh if there is only one survivor before all generators done, just sacrifice him instead of spawning hatch, this way we can expect solo q survivors to have more teamwork too.
Also honestly I think 3k with hatch escapes are what really skewing the data, I'm mostly sure removing it only makes game healthier statistics wise.
It genuinely doesn't makes sense how with 2 survivors killers are "guaranteed to get 2 kill" but if it goes down to 1 match suddenly becomes "50/50 fair match".
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bruh its a 50/50, they literally killed keys what more do u want. u can literally slug and force a 4k
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Yeah, keys aren’t as good as they used to be but that’s an example of where they’re still useful.
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You know that's also the point, why waste everyone's time for marginal "chance" which doesn't happen anyway?
It's not even made up terminology, since hatches spawns no matter what, it's literally came from nowhere.
Survivor could do gens, chases, rescues, open chets, hide in locker indefinitely, or cleanse 5 bones, but whatever they do hatch will spawn.
If you won't say a benefit that happens regardless of what they've done as "free", I think we are living in different star.
And do note I never said it's survivor problem, I'm against the hatch as a mechanics, not someone who uses it.
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If there is one survivor left and gate is not powered, kill it.
If gate is powered and there is one survivor left, open hatch.
Kinda like all the moris, I guess?
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Hatch is a pity escape, should not even exist but it do
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I am 100% okay with the way hatches and keys work now.
I absolutely LOVE the last survivor point in the game, when I'm desperately trying to find the hatch regardless of what I'm playing. The key can actually have some fairly good uses with add-ons, so it isn't completely useless without one and should you happen to find one that can open the hatch, and happen to find a closed hatch, boy oh boy have you earned that escape.
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That's quite a subjective pov though. Most killers nowadays tend to stack gen-regression perks so if you don't have decent teammates that can multi-task, it's going to be rough to finish all 5. Also when they do manage to do to all 5 there is no reason that 3 of them should suddenly die lol.
Remember hatch doesn't count as a win for a surv nor does it count as a loss for a killer.
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The counterplay to hatch is not caring if somebody gets hatch. Like if someone escapes through hatch, it's a consolation escape. If I killed everyone else, and the last person gets hatch, I still won in my mind.
If you truly need to 4k. Just slug, I guess.
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After the key nerf a while back the hatch is now perfectly fine. It's there so that the last survivor has a -chance- when the game was likely a stomp by the killer.
Killers shouldn't be so desperate for a 4k, a 3k and a hatch escape is universally still considered a win for the killer.
If you have an archive that requires a 4k then just slug the last two survivors.
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No, you can just walk toward them and end their gloating preemptively by making them leave.
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The only time I care about hatch escapes is when it was the survivor that hid all game and never got hooked. But, in that scenario, I can just slug the 3rd and look for the 4th. Rest of the time, I am fine going for a 50/50.
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Well let me tell you... my Survivor matchmaking has been absolutely terrible for the past two months. If I'm entering SoloQ, chances are that I'm bringing a key. I'm not going to run around single-handedly doing gens, unhooking, healing, etc. only to die on first hook.
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I just wish the hatch closed after 60 seconds. Why shouldn't it exactly? It would stamp out scenarios of survivors waiting for killer at hatch for no reason, and killer camping hatch to ensure the survivor doesn't try to stealth any gates as soon as hatch is closed. I think the last 1v1 should be in the killers favor, not a true 50/50.
Having hatch be open for only 60 seconds would reduce the amount of slugging for the 4k as well.
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I agree with most of the idea, however I will add hatch is not a "50/50" as is often touted by the community.
If a survivor finds the hatch, it is guaranteed victory, if a killer finds the hatch it merely starts EGC and powers the gates. If the survivor waits by one of the gates, particularly with something like adrenaline, they can often get out before the killer has the time to walk over to the gate.
Likewise, if the gates spawn in opposite corners of the map it is an additional "50/50" on if they will choose the right gate and find the survivor in time.
While I'm not saying the hatch is unfair or anything (I often give it away to the last survivor anyway) I take some issue with the idea that it's not survivor sided, at least in the idea that upon closing they get an additional chance at escape
There's also the more-unlikely-but-still-possible scenario of them having a key, or even plundering one mid-match
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Those red skill checks for ruin are really annoying too.. oh wait... we're in 2022
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I pondered that for a while myself, but I guess the feeling of just slaughtering helpless survivors (in cases were you snowbald at 3+ gens) would become pretty old quite fast. And there are this cases of sneaking and doing gens super slowly. While a hatch can easily turn a 4k into a 3k I usually dont get invested in the hatch escape, as its basically a coin toss. The only thing that slightly iritates me is when the escapee then feels all mighty in the post game chat and brags around to no end, but thats just your kids today.
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How was the original not fair???
You could only be grabbed when you were injured, even if the killer makes it to the hatch first or right as the survivor does, you better spam space or its a click win, not to mention they can still use a key to win with a click once again. The grab i thought made this fairer
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So we're really just going to forget about the HUGE hatch nerf that happened not too long ago? I'm for the nerf but we're going to act like the hatch is busted because the survivor escaped because they found hatch before you could close it?
Counterplays to simply losing a footrace, especially when the killer is faster, aren't needed. Make it to the hatch first, close it. You don't, survivor probably gets out. That's the game.
If a killer only gets a 3k because of a hatch escape, that's still a win.
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not if keys are involved, then its an auto win for the survivor cuz you cant grab
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