Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
"shaking up the meta" done incorrectly
i know theres a lot of forums and comments on this already, but if they were trying to shake up the meta, why didnt they buff the niche perks? all they did was nerf strong survivor perks and give us close to nothing to replace them with. people would run perks like up the ante, self preservation, etc if they actually did something useful or if they added better general perks. (since killers got a general perk in the last update, when do survivors get new general perks?)
not to mention, with the new bt buff, bt gives you the haste status affect, but what about guardian? is that going to get reworked into something actually useful at any point? there's no reason to now hide their scratchmarks / blood if they're automatically given endurance for a few seconds, if the killer is near them, they're fine and if the killer isn't, they're also fine.
and i mean, did mettle of man and spine chill even need to be nerfed?
Comments
-
All I can say is, they wanted to change the meta, but didn't want to change most perks. Even with the ones that were changed, they weren't the best changes.
2 -
Monstrous Shrine was buffed.
let me repeat that
Monstrous Shrine was buffed.
1 -
i get why they would want to nerf the meta perks but it makes no sense on why they didn't just give us better perks.
iron will is useless, ds deactivates after the last gen pops (which will only bring back 99'ing gens), they already had ds last 3s before changing it to 5s because it was too short of a time so why on earth did they change it back to 3s?, endurance cancels if you do a 'conspicous' action which should only apply to off the record, they're going about it all wrong and refusing to listen to peoples complaints about it.
1 -
the most useless killer on earth only used by basement bubba players. it now only benefits people who can get to and from 24m quickly or indirectly camp basement. (hag, demo, trapper, dredge, nurse etc)
ive said this before but none of the killer 'nerfs' changed my killer builds, but my survivor builds will barely survive the update which is somehow supposed to be the point. bhvrs priorities are wacked out.
3 -
If all that's done is niche perks are buffed to be a little more useful, nobody would have any actual reason to swap off their meta loadouts; it shifts the responsibility of the "meta shakeup" onto the players to make the choice to stop running the current meta perks even though they're all still perfectly viable and realistically still probably the strongest options.
In order to shake up the meta, people need a reason to swap their builds, and that comes from making their current builds less effective just as much as it comes from making other tools more effective.
(Also, Mettle of Man wasn't nerfed, I'm not sure what you mean by that)
0 -
Nerfing the 10 strongest perks is obviously much easier than buffing all weak perks, and also much more effective. For this they needed basekit changes, which they did. With the exception of Off the record and maybe Overcharge, i think they did a great job.
4 -
People will still run dh or sprint burst, bt or otr and coh… so nothing changes and killer will go on stacking genregressing perks. Same as before
3 -
all they did was nerf strong survivor perks and give us close to nothing to replace them with. people would run perks like up the ante, self preservation, etc if they actually did something usefulNo, they wouldn't. There are plenty of survivor perks that have always been useful or have been buffed to do something useful. The only way for new survivor perks to currently enter the meta is for them to be completely busted, like MoM on release, CoH on release.
"Useful" is not enough, since the most popular survivor perks go beyond that.
2 -
Lol yeah it doesn't change anything I use corrupt+deadlock +anything on every killer and I will still use the same build it's just gonna be even stronger, for survivor this update sucks the DS nerf is really sad it's basically a dead perk now, the only useful perk against tunneling... and I doubt OTR goes live anyway
2 -
This! For something to be meta it needs to be the "most effective tactic available", and there is pretty limited room up on top, especially since all survivors are functionally the same and just skins for the same basekit.
When playing survivor I never play the popular meta build, but some fun builds like the bone buster, the houdini or the Autididact healer. With decent looping skills you can do well without meta skills, and it's much more fun then running the same old, same old that everyone else is running.
By Nerfing a few of the biggest offenders BHVR will encourage a few people to try out other perks because they now feel free to throw some "must haves" out. Others will be too stubborn and just keep using their old builds, endlessly complaining that "the game is unplayable now".
No perk loadout will truly protect you from getting camped or tunneled, but in the same vein you can absolutely be successful with off-meta builds, because skills matter. So try out something that sounds like it's fun and run with it.
1 -
You got nothing to replace them with because the power level needed to come DOWN, not UP.
0 -
It's pretty obvious that until they don't actually change some core game mechanics to punish certain killer strats, survivors will feel forced to run only second chance perks, and said perks can't actually be nerfed to the ground without giving valid alternatives or the game would become actually unplayable in certain scenarios
But I know you know this already
2 -
I think everyone mistake the meaning of what they did.
"Shake up" the Meta, not "balance" the perks.
They force you to use different perks.
1 -
endurance now gets cancelled by conspicious actions, meaning if you're injured and mettle is active, you will lose what you spent 3 protection hits trying to gain. meaning you cant use your endurance anymore to guarantee someone elses safety (like sabotaging a hook, unhooking or healing them while you are endured to take the hit if the killer comes, etc) when thats the entire point of the perk.
0 -
Is that universal? I haven't tested but I thought that only applied to Off the Record and Borrowed Time.
Even if it is, MoM already breaks one of the rules about Endurance, I wouldn't be surprised if it also broke this one. However, worst case scenario, MoM got accidentally nerfed, I'd agree that's an unnecessary change.
0 -
i believe so, i havent had the means to test it myself, but they havent explicitely said that it isn't affected by it, but it looks like it works the same as new otr. if it isnt affected by cospicious actions then thats worse because itll join the new meta of endurance stacking because bt + otr + dh + mom and a survivor never goes down
0 -
They said their goals were that killers didnt need too run slowdown perks and survivors second chance perks, but as they didnt fully address the issues that cause these (gen speeds and tunneling and camping), killers will still stack slowdown and survivors will still stack second chance perks.
2 -
the meta is currently very killer sided (with caulro + thana, and all the survivor meta perks being nerfed into the ground, etc), i never run dead hard or ds or iron will because they are boring perks that lead me to play boring, repetitive games. (dont get me wrong tho, ruin got nerfed into the ground too)
i bring dumb funny perks like any means and blast mine and whatever else, because at the end of the day, it's a game and i don't take it seriously. it's made for fun, but more players would be willing to shake up their build if the game actually gave them a reason to, you know, like making other perks better, and also by changing game elements that makes them need to rely on secend chance perks, the new meta is now just intense slowdown that causes 2 minute heals and 2 minute generators. how is that fun for survivors anymore? and obviously the endurance stacking which is no fun for killers either.
the game is already very killer sided, especially from solo q, the thing that makes the game bad is coordinated swfs (which honestly could be limited to duos instead of full 4 stacks), im good as survivor but thats pretty useless when you have bad solo teammates who let you get tunneled out, vs playing killer and always getting a 4k unless im choosing to give someone hatch.
genuinely, just by the massive nerfs and the new prestige system, im more than likely just going to stop playing if this ptb goes live without them seriously reworking all the errors in it.
1 -
Buffing the niche perks would have only shaked up the meta if they turned out stronger and/or more busted then what the meta was.
I don't think people would like that
2 -
All they did was force everyone into running different 2nd chance and slowdown perks. Camping and tunneling as killer vs splitting up on gens are still the best strats. All the popular perks were just symptoms of that, and none of the base kit changes will help. If anything, tunneling will be worse since no one will respect DS anymore.
1 -
Kill rates are too low. That's the reasoning behind it. At high MMR, survivors will win almost every single time. Streamers have managed to get almost 400 escapes in a row. So they want things to be harder for survivors, and I'm sure that CoH didn't help. Whether or not they actually accomplished this is up for debate.
Survivors actually got a massive anti-tunneling buff. BT is now basekit with a slightly shorter timeout, BT itself was buffed, and OTR makes both obsolete by being the most broken survivor perk by several miles, maybe even moreso than DH.
Dead Hard is still almost as useful as it was. It's still OP, just not as much as it was (OTR is taking its spot in that department).
I don't know what kind of killer builds you're using, but mine are all going to have to change, with very few exceptions. Ruin didn't get the slap-on-the-wrist treatment the way CoH and DH did; it was gutted completely to the point of uselessness. NOED is now useless. Pop is an order of magnitude weaker. Corrupt is now useless. Sure, a lot of survivor perks were gutted, but killers didn't get to keep any useful perks aside from the ones that were released to recently to justify a nerf (Deadlock, CoB, and Merciless are still viable).
So... whatever. Complainers gonna complain. I hope that you are right, and killers get a massive buff with all their basekit changes.
0 -
You’re forgetting that the new Monstrous Shrine also buffs all the outside Scoruge Hooks too. So if I run it with Pain Resonance, for instance, then when I hook someone on an outside hook their timer runs faster, it doesn’t have to be in the basement for that.
0 -
Any change would buff it was pretty simple
0 -
my killer build is genuinely, unnerving presence, huntress lullaby, undying and a spare slot. and surprisingly, while obviously not the best for slowdown, is pretty good.
0 -
not really, i thought scourge hooks stacked, and with honstrous shrine automatically spawning in the basement, wouldnt that make your 4 scourge hooks always spawn in the basement?
0
