Complained at for gen rushing, complained at for not doing gens at all. What do you want from me?

From what I read you went from a Gen Speed team build to a build that's designed to mess with the Killer as they hook. Even though you all died and goofed around maybe in the Killers eyes or on his side of the screen he didn't see it like that.

When I play Killer I tend to play semi serious but mostly silly. But they know I'm being silly even though I might have a few Metas or bring really good addons by how I am acting....there was one time and I wish I recorded it but I didn't sadly, but anyway I hooked everyone and downed the last person. When I picked them up I attacked a wall to signal don't struggle I'm carrying you to the hatch. When I got there however I found the hatch spawned right Infront of a hook lol. So I looked at the hatch then the hook and then back a few times and the Survivor must of been worried when I slow turned to the hook.....she struggled and broke free and grabbed the hatch lol.

Please try to read this ENTIRE post. I put a lot of thought into it and some of my gripes with this game come into it in a vital way that many Killers can relate to.

So, they complain about you being bullies because it really does on the face of it look like a tryhard SWF build, it does look like you were trying to win with that. As a Killer, triumphing over a build like this? It's not fun. It's very frustrating actually.

Stunlocks are one of the most unfun game mechanics ever and if it means completely freezing in place unable to do anything while the enemy team can either kill you, taunt you or do the objectives right infront of your face faster and more efficiently, it's a humiliation. It's hard to see it as good natured fun when you completely lose control and for a game where the Killer is supposed to be a scary, unstoppable force not to be played around or messed with, it makes the entire game out to be a joke. Killers become far less powerful and Survivors become far less scared, where it was supposed to be respectively a Power Fantasy and a Survival Horror game for each. Personally if you DO end up Power Struggle pallet slamming me, then blind me with a flashlight, then Sprint Burst away then bless a totem with any Boon perk (it's literally always Circle of Healing)? I would probably not be very happy and would just tunnel you to death hook. Maybe I'd even just slug you until you bled out if your teammates were making it hard for me to even pick you up off the ground.

Literally eat flashlights, walk right into a pallet stun and chase 1 person the entire game without scoring a single hit. Only way Survivors won't complain but they still will clown on you in Endgame chat for no reason.

"OMG TUNNELING, PROXY CAMPING WHY DIDN'T YOU LITERALLY LEAVE THE MAP SO I COULD SAFELY UNHOOK smh"

It baffles me how you are literally doing just the thing you complained at me for doing. It's like fighting a team in Team Fortress 2 with SIX engineers and FOUR SNIPERS. Sure! It's in the game, it sure is a part of the game to not have class limits.

.........Does that mean it is fun and fair though. Does that mean that this is an INTENDED DESIGN and not more likely developer oversight, that an inattentive dev team failed to address and in the case of BHVR, is intentionally taking as much time as possible to address because they fear if they acted quickly, they would instantly get backlash and people would start quitting the game and playing it a lot less? Sure, for a very low MMR like yours where you said yourself that you don't care much about being outplayed, these balance issues never really become a big, sore problem. For higher MMRs where I'm currently playing though, you will find that it literally physically becomes UNWINNABLE UNLESS YOU run annoying builds that you would never wanna fight and use Killers with either good anti-looping, very good gen pressure, a ranged ability or an instadown. Let's call this the Killer Formula.

Notice how I never complained about Dead Hard btw. Dead Hard was never a deciding factor in a game between me completely losing and completely winning, but Boon: Circle of Healing for example is a whole different story. Can completely delete any progress I achieve, which can take up to 2 minutes sometimes, of wounding all 4 Survivors. VERY important, decisive perk choice that can destroy any Killer that isn't using the Killer Formula and just wants to have fun.

I've complained about both things you mentioned as well, so here are my thoughts on why I complained.

1) gen rushing

I don't blame the súrvivors for this, I blame the developers as they set up the game the way it is and even with mid-chapter changes, gens will still get done really fast if survivors use prove thyself and toolboxes. For the most part, this doesn't make me mad but I sometimes question survivors after in chat what the challenge is in using prove thyself or toolboxes, then get accused of being mad and told they just using what is in the game, which is true but just because something in-game doesn't mean you have to use it.

2) Having fun with a killer (goofing around builds including what you saying and headon builds)

This is one that annoys me the most, I didn't sign up for it and you as survivors are making the decision for me on how to play the match. These types of builds are never fun for the killer, it's frustrating and feels like survivors are deliberately trying to make you rage quit and mad, which is true most of the time. Some might be ok with it but I'm certainly not, this is the survivor equivalent of a killer who tunnels and camps, trust me, I'm more likely to camp/tunnel if you do this to me, if not, then I play chilled and in a fun way.

As for what killers want, can only speak on behalf of myself and no one else.

I want to chase a survivor, win that chase eventually and hook the survivor, then snowball into another chase and hook, and so on. I know gens are going to get done and sometimes it happens really fast. I'll defend gens but for the most part, I wanna enjoy chases with a survivor, not have all survivors harassing me and constantly around because they running a goofing around build.

IMO, nothing good has ever come from multiplayer games having end game chat. While there may be a few golden nuggets of positivity pop up every once in awhile, the chances of encountering toxicity is ridiculously high. People feel secure behind the safety of their keyboards, and because of that most times people will say things that they shouldn't, which is why I prefer single player games.

I think dead by daylight would be a whole lot healthier for everyone's mental health if they just disabled the end game chat entirely.

Complete misrepresentation of the arguments here. Camping and tunnelling can be legit strategies. On their own, they're are very broad concepts that cover a range of circumstances.

During the EGC anything goes, because the killer has no other objectives to defend besides the hooked survivor, or the survivor could be hooked right next to a near completed gen, and can see another survivor approaching, so the killer has no incentive to leave the area. Facecamping at 5 gens is most certainly an extreme example and definitely bad sportsmanship, but you can't penalise it without also penalising the legit strategies above.

Meanwhile tunnelling is highly subjective. Maybe the killer is intentionally singling you out to eliminate you as fast as possible, and ignoring all other survivors regardless of how much of a target they're making of themselves. Again, bad sportsmanship, unfun gameplay. But most of the time, a killer "tunnels" because the unhooked survivor misplays and makes themselves a target, while the other survivors are overcautious and keeping out of sight. So how do you 'protect' an 'innocent' survivor from aggressive, malicious targeting, while not also giving poor survivor plays an unwarranted free escape?

Slugging is 100% a legit strategy, survivors even have a whole host of perks to deal with it, and a core mechanic (the ability to recover yourself/others from the dying state) built around this specific circumstance. How are you supposed to get any use out of recovering in the dying state, picking up other survivors in the dying state, Unbreakable, Tenacity, Flip Flop, No Mither, Soul Guard, For the People, We're Gonna Live Forever, etc. if the killer couldn't slug? The times slugging is bad sportsmanship are usually the minority of cases, typically slugging for the 4K when the 4th survivor is nowhere near anyway, but the killer wants the 4K at any cost.

All of these things are legit strategies, except when they're used by a killer in an already dominant position, to bully survivors who are clearly already being outplayed, in a way that they can't do anything to retaliate against it. And exactly the same is true for genrushing, and bodyblocking.

When the killer has been chasing one survivor for 2 minutes but the other three have stacked rare toolboxes and repair perks and have finished 3 gens before the first chase is over. You know you're significantly outplaying that killer. Maybe there's not so much you can do about it at that point, but you know that's an incredibly unfun game for that killer, and you know that you're all going to walk away with terrible scores. So you shouldn't be surprised that the killer feels that was an unfair game.

Likewise, if you have two survivors body blocking the killer, crouching directly in front but out of sight, and combining that with flashlight saves, sabotage, or Boil Over, etc. to the point where you've denied 3-4 hooks in a row and wasted 5 minutes of chases with several downs but no hooks to show for it. At that point you know you're dominating, and despite only have one survivor on gens, you're giving that one survivor all the time they need to repair them all anyway, because the killer can't make any ground. So what is the killer supposed to feel? "fair game guys you win"?

Yet, just because genrushing and bodyblocking can result in incredibly unfair, unfun games for the killer, doesn't mean that there's inherently anything wrong with repairing gens or blocking a hook.

This topic isn't about fixing imbalances in the game, it's about "why are killers getting upset when I bully them?"

What is gen rushing?

Yea but you guys don't know what actual gen rushing is. In the past you could say survivor gen rush but not now.

1 gen could be finished within a 10 sec with a brand new part and plus leader was busted with it. You probably started playing like a year or two ago

Play how you damn well want to play, ignore the chat and ignore the heavily biased opinions that tell you a perk / addon / item/ power/ strategy is 'cheating' 'abuse' or 'bullying.'

People will always ALWAYS keep trying to move the goal posts or twist their opinion to make the other side the bad guy until the game is reduced to a one-on-one rolled-up sock fight (socks can't hurt feelings right?), and you can guarantee the forums would be filled with people arguing about which side's socks have the aerodynamic advantage.

People will ALWAYS complain when they aren't winning, and they will ALWAYS tell you that their own made up rules don't apply to themselves because of reasons A to Z.

I don't care what side you play, what resources at your disposal you bring, or even if I win or lose. Have fun your way and damn everybody else because honestly, you could serve free wins with doughnuts at the exit gates and someone would still complain that you got the wrong flavor. Just play the damn game and have your own fun. Best advice I can offer.

Absolutely beautiful, fantastic example of what I am talking about.

You are right, I did mispresent you, I apologise. For some reason I had this insane idea that killers are not inherently entitled and gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't accuse you of saying ridiculous like anything a survivor does is unfair but killers can do no wrong and everything if fair because the devs said so. My own fault for treating you like a person and not generalising you into a stereotype, that was my fault and you have greatly embarrassed me.

But seriously your entitlement is astounding. Its amazing how people on the forum will rush to the defence of camping/ tunnelling, slugging. There is always an excuse.

I'm not camping I'm patrolling

I'm not tunnelling, their team didn't body block

slugging is fine because I'm just applying pressure cause the gens are going to fast

Its end game

Then you just get the more toxic excuses

Camping at 5 gens is a legitimate strategy cause the devs said it is

There is nothing wrong with infectious fright slugging nurse

Killer is hard which is why I focus one survivor out of the game then I play properly

Its not my job to ensure everybody is having fun

All of it is the same. you're just coming up with excuses to justify your toxic behaviour. I mean look at what you are saying???

"tunnelling is highly subjective. " It really isn't. Some matches people have bad luck and it happens. But we're talking about hard focusing survivors out of the match. Would it have really been to hard to make basekit BT at least 15 seconds? "Oh well survivors will use it to body block." Well I'm going apply the killer logic, used to justify the buffs with new update. "Now that killer is stronger and matches take longer, killers won't abuse this because it just made camping even more viable then it was, because killers have integrity." Well that's my justification for buffing survivors.

Then you defend slugging? Slugging is a legitimate strategy. Dragging a match out, slowing it down to a crawl or not even engaging in the actual objective of killer "getting hooks." but survivors coordinating to save a teammate isn't? What you pick and choose is astonishing. You are just as much a part of the poor sportsmanship you refer to. you are just not as bad as the worse. Its the equivalent of tripping somebody in soccer and then saying "It's fine cause it only kind of bad, I don't elbow people in the face." No, you are a toxic person, where you sit on the toxic, entitled player ladder irrelevant.

But I could forgive all of this, if you didn't say this. " Facecamping at 5 gens is most certainly an extreme example and definitely bad sportsmanship, but you can't penalise it without also penalising the legit strategies above." You can't even call out the worst aspect of the entire game, and say "OK, yes this awful, and massive game changes need to be fix it." Your first response to defend it? The first thing you think when somebody stands in front a hook for 5 minutes is, "This needs to exits, because proxy camping needs to exist." The worst aspect of DBD needs to exist, because otherwise the second worst aspect of DBD would be weaker, amazing logic.

The more I read the more broken you logic is.

"All of these things are legit strategies, except when they're used by a killer in an already dominant position, to bully survivors who are clearly already being outplayed."

Who the F... gets to determine that? I feel like I'm no I'm no longer in the dominant position so I get to use these cheap miserable strategies. Even more astonishing in this post you call tunnelling "Subjective." But now you have ability to determine a match outcome with complete accuracy to justify how toxic you get to be this match. Oh I'm sure you would never abuse that.

Here is the issue, with you and every entitled killer in DBD. This is modern killer logic.

"Killer's want survivors to play in extremely strict ways, and never deviate from this, so they can predict and apply counters. But they don't want it to be effective because otherwise the killer feels bullied."

I hate to be blunt, but I could not care less about somebody "feeling bullied." Its extremally easy and unproductive to "feel bullied." Body blocking is not bullying, doing your objective is not "bullying." Camping isn't even bullying. DBD is has 18+ ratting. You need to be 18 years or older to play this game. If you are younger then 18 and you feel "bullied." Maybe that has do with the fact you are a kid, who should not even be playing this game. You clearly do not have the emotional maturity to engage in this game and its best for you mental development to put DBD on hold until you mature a little. If you are over 18 and you are being "bullied," in an online game cause they did gens really fast or because they blocked the hook. Or even if they camped. "I have never felt bullied because a killer camped me." Its frustrating, boring, but not bullying. But if you seriously feel this way, you have much bigger issues then the balance of DBD.

Eh don't listen to them

If me being efficient on gens is gen rushing then oh well

"No no, Boon is a fair perk, why didn't you just follow that one guy holding W for five hours while all gens pop? Oh yeah you should turn around and walk away if I'm camping the unhooker. You don't get to do a trade, but I get to rescue them and heal them up fully!"

It's not toxic. Slugging? Tunneling?? "Camping"? Are strategies in the game, just like bodyblocking.

Holy #########, you really doubled down on twisting and misrepresenting huh?

Everything I just just was entirely balanced and reasonable. I play both sides, I know how both sides feel.

But you're so far gone to "killer bad, survivor good" that you can't even perceive your own hypocrisy.

This is unhinged...

Goddamn, man, you jumped to ad hominems real fast.

I don't have the patience to sift through this entire mass when about half of it is passive-aggression and making up your own bad arguments that you can attack instead of actually addressing what was said. I'm just going to hit one or two points. You attacked the other person for saying facecamping isn't an issue that can be fixed without damaging killer agency. In your eyes, this is defending and making excuses for it and you apparently missed the part they said it was bad sportsmanship, ergo they do not support it at all. Like, even in the original post you decided to get mad at @Seraphor for, they talked about several things survivors rightfully hate being subjected to - just as many such things as on the killer side - but all you're getting out of this is KILLER BAD. Actually, it's really ironic that your argument is that survivors can do whatever they want and that's strategy and killers just have to suck it up, but when killers do it, it's miserable and unfun. You're coming across as a photo negative of the toxic killer entitlement you're complaining about.

Alright. Whatever. I'm digressing. Here's my question. How would you penalize facecamping without damaging the other more fair or necessary situations where the killer is around the hook? I don't really care what you think of camping on the whole; if someone is hiding near the hook, or every member of the team is waiting around the area, or everyone is stealthing, or the gates are open, there is zero reason for the killer to go somewhere else. Punishing them in situations where leaving is an objectively bad move is not fair, and savvy survivors will take advantage of stuff like frozen timers or disabled powers to loop around the hook. Here's the deal you're missing; it's really easy to scream about absolutes when you don't actually have to come up with a solution, versus the real issue that every time BHVR's tried to address this, it either didn't really do anything to fix the problem (see: the new 5-second BT and how utterly ineffective it is) or created another issue.

Like, before you call me toxic and a horrible camping killer main and whatever, I hate facecamping and I despise the people that do it for kicks. But I can't figure out a way to fix it. I've noodled on a few solutions for Bubba in particular, but actual basekit for all killers? I've got nothing that wouldn't break more than it fixed.

Also, nice job claiming you have to be an immature manbaby or actual child who should get off DBD if god forbid you ever feel like online gamers are being dicks on purpose. The other day I ran into a Knockout Doctor who spent the whole time slugging and shocking until T3 made it impossible to pick people up, then bled everyone out, then took the last survivor and ran around carrying them to hold them hostage until they finally gave up trying to get a reaction out of them. What would you call that if not bullying? And if you agree that that killer was intentionally playing a bad game meant to make the other players miserable, what do you think about a 4-stack of BMing survivors sending the killer to RPD with 3 oak, quad sabo boxes, and Exponential/Boil Over? What is actually the difference here, when you get a survivor team that is more interested in crapping on the killer than doing the gens and getting out?

If you've never run into a coordinated SWF that did their damnedest to make sure you couldn't hook any of them, you don't play much killer, and you really don't have the grounds to speak on how a killer's a whiny baby for getting upset about it. At the very least, you don't have the right to declare that and then complain about whatever unenjoyable strategy killers use on you, which you seem to be doing.

It's just not fun when people play to make a joke out of you instead of for fun. I like decently long games where a lot of chases and a lot of hooks happen, I don't like waiting out a guy's hook from first stage to death hook. A really good, fun game is if Survivors get over 3 generators and I get 12 hooks and that lasts 20 minutes. Everyone wins, everyone doublepips, everyone gets max bloodpoints, no one loses.