Who do you think will be the next character for LGBT representation?
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So you're implying that as long as not everyone supports the sexualization of children then it's not a problem??
Also- It's not like it's one small, isolated incident either.
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Damn, sorry about sticking up for inclusivity of minorities- Not.
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I think that the point they were trying to make was that it is unhealthy to crave identification in media. Characters should be defined by their character and personality, not their identity, the same way as people.
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You really gonna make me tear up like that when im already emotionally unstable, huh?
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Fantastically well said! 💜
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Yeah, ######### the minorities that want to see themselves in media. There’s a difference in wanting representation and obsessing over it. Identity is a key part of a person’s character lmao. I cannot believe I have to actually explain this.
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No, I'm implying that what you are doing is a generalization, you're implying that because a part of a community did something then everyone is to blame.
then you're trying to make me look like I don't blame the sexualization of children ?
What is wrong with you
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For anyone that says stuff like "why does it matter?", "I don't care about the survivors sexuality..." etc:
You might not care, but many of us do. Representation is so important as it gives visibility and a voice to people who are marginalized in society. The thing is, you say "it's not important" and "it doesn't matter what their sexuality is" , but the reality is... it does. Being a part of LGBTQ+ is a huge part of a persons identity and humanity, not necessarily through our own actions, but because society has made such a huge deal about us and given us such a hard time for being who we are, why shouldn't we be able to openly discuss our identity and want to see aspects of ourselves in our favorite media (games, books, films, etc.)? So you may say you couldn't care less about a survivors gender identity/sexual orientation, but that's most likely because you yourself haven't had to justify who you are (gender) and who you love with the fear of being ridiculed and stigmatised. Regardless of how many times people say it doesn't matter: it does. Gender identity and sexuality are BIG aspects of our lives and who we are, so why's it so crazy that these aspects would be discussed in a character's lore?
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the lore team will always write lore. the lore team will not suddenly begin programming. we can argue all we want about a misallocation of resources but lore will always be written, so we can always request representation in it.
therefore, the meme works.
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You are talking about "minorities" as just another faceless collective, not as human beings, are you sure your posture is not born out of some patronizing atittude? I think said "minorities" have the capability to think and speak out for themselves, they don't need to have their demands pandered by a corporate establishment. They are not just a tool for companies to mould an agenda or do some facelifting.
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you are not even responding to 1% about what he wrote, just some rambling about the topic you want to bring in (in a very aggressive way I must say)
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Fair enough.
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1- It's a drag. There's not some magic "not drag but drag" in the world. It's a No True Scotsman fallacy, I think. You can't just say "Oh I don't like that therefore it doesn't exist." Sure, not every drag might support it, but unless they want to formally denounce it (Which I've seen none of) They are still called "Drag Kids." they are still drag. And yes, a part of a community is still in that community. It's like saying you can't call Soviets communists because some disliked communism.
2- What is the Sexualization of Children guilty of?
3- Is it wrong for me to believe you might support (or at least condone) such actions, given that you immediately defended them?
I'm not saying all Drag are guilty of such terrible things, but none seem to be willing to try and fight it, at least not in any organized manner, and given that it's in their community, they should be the ones trying to stop it.
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yes <3
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Sure. You know what, I’ll go along with your thoughts. There’s too much representation - of cishet people. The absolute overwhelming majority of all media of any form whatsoever produced since the start of human civilization is cishet. The percent of LGBT+ characters in media is far smaller than the actual amount. Therefore, I think that should be corrected for. From now until some unspecified point in the future, no cishet characters will be created or portrayed. Every single character will be LGBT+, until the summation of all human media from the start of human civilization itself reaches the supposedly precious accurate "statistics" of representation people like you care so deeply about. Sound good?
Oh wait what’s that, you think that’s unfair? You want representation? Sure - but only if you can explain what makes you think you deserve representation. After all, cishets are currently over-represented in human media in its summed up existence. Not like a character being cishet matters in a FPS, right? Can’t have that lazy representation now, can we? You don’t agree? Why are you so obsessed about representation? I think that’s kind of unhealthy to crave it so much.
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over-representation in media is only fair when the majority get to be over-represented, don't you know? can't have minorities be represented with more than a single character each- hell, just shove them all into one and get it over and done with- because that would be far too upsetting! can't have the majority see more than a single minority on-screen at any one time, after all.
(obligatory /s)
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Well, what would the appropriate amount of representation look like?
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Nemesis
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more than a singular gay man.
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So we'll just add one more gay man then.
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People would have a more accurate answer if people like you stopped losing their minds over representing and normalizing minorities so that said minorities feel welcome to openly embrace their identity instead of keeping it hidden. People that have a problem with representation are the problem. But hey, since statistics are all the buzz, chew this for size. ~5% of youths in the US have stated they are transgender. The real number is some unknown sum higher, mostly cause of people like you. Come back once there’s at least millions of trans characters in media. Sound good?
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Ah yes, because in the entire LGBTQIA+ community, focusing on exclusively the G is a wonderful idea.
No. Not at all.
There's a wide range of identities that BHVR could choose to represent. There isn't an end-point, and BHVR can add as many as they see fit. However as a community who play the game, we are entitled to ask for representation of our own identities or similar.
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When one group says they are underrepresented and that a different group is over represented, wouldn't that indicate they have a rough idea on the appropriate amount of representation they would like? Wouldn't it be easier for the developers to satisfy that need if they knew the data before hand?
And if G would be too over represented with two characters then how many characters should it be for each of the identities? Should all identities be included or only the "main ones"?
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There's not like a quota as to how many you need to do lmao
"Yo boss man we need 12 more LGBT by the end of this week or we're gonna get fired" is not something you're ever gonna hear.
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What cishets think inclusivity efforts in companies/media is like:
I think I should clarify. The above number where I said millions is me lowballing it. If you take all characters in the entire sum of all media produced in the entirety of human history, that probably won’t even meet the 5% that admit it openly let alone the rest that don’t. If even the lowball can’t be achieved, you don’t really have any grounds to talk about over-representation.
But overrepresentation clearly is a problem to people of your sort, so I think we should actually also additionally retroactively alter/remove existing cishet characters and media to adjust for that.
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Please dont get informed from that link. That is the same person who says crossdressers are LGBT.
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So then the plan for future content to make everyone feel like the have representation would be to add every identity, correct?
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Oh look, even you people can accidentally stumble onto the correct answer sometimes. Amazing, I’m so proud of you. Good job! You’re right. We should be inclusive of all minorities (except stuff like pedos, before some moron tries to use this as a gotcha).
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You are pretty vitriolic to someone just asking questions. Pretty neutral questions too.
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If you’re just asking questions, a good place to start would be "Can you give me links to resources so I can learn about minorities and why inclusivity is important?" 😉
I wouldn’t want to accidentally contribute to another "A LGBT+ person was mean to me once so it made me stop supporting LGBT+ as a whole" excuse, would I?
If you actually are an earnest questioner, then prove it by acting in good faith and showing you want to start learning.
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How aren’t cross-dressers LGBT?
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how is a cisgender hetero man who likes to wear woman's clothes LGBT?
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You can choose what clothes you wear, correct?
Whereas you can't control what orientation you are since idk brain things?
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years of being treated like less, like dirt, because of who you love or how you identify, and then being asked these questions that should be easy to understand and not hard to grasp, tends to do that to a person.
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Well I guess that’s fair. Although idk if LGBT is just for sexualities. I may be wrong.
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LGBT is for sexuality and gender minorities, it isnt a catch all for kinks and whatever else.
A straight cis man who likes to wear his wifes clothes is not a discriminated minority.
The same way a straight cis man who likes to dress as a woman for drag shows isn't a discriminated minority.
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I never said that. I explicitly stated that crossdressers are not part of LGBT people but part of the LGBTQ+ (notice the +)-community. You just have tried to twist my words
and the website I linked isn’t created by me in any way.
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I’m just gonna make a correction here. Cross dressing isn’t a kink only. People can just like wearing other clothes. It is not inherently sexual. And people that cross dress absolutely face discrimination. Clothes being gendered in the first place is stupid anyways.
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when i say LGBT i mean LGBTQ+. Straight cisgender crossdressers are not part of LGBTQ+.
Want to be a crossdresser? Fine, but stop acting like you belong in a marginalized group. Want to feel included go to fetlife or something
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Even if it isnt a kink only, if you are straight and cis, crossdressing still doesn't make you part of LGBTQIA+
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A straight cis man who likes to wear his wifes clothes is not a discriminated minority.
The same way a straight cis man who likes to dress as a woman for drag shows isn't a discriminated minority.
actually both are being discriminated against AND minorities.. though that’s not the definition that determines who is part of the LGBTQ+ community and who isn’t.
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What does is sexuality and gender.
But you guys love to say "clothes have no gender" but then they suddenly do when it comes to crossdressers.
The guy wearing his wife's clothes can you know, just stop wearing them, I cant stop being trans. So no, people like that dont belong in the same group as people like me and other LGBT+ people who don't have a choice.
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I'd rather they didn't because it's a game about killing people not the Sims.
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Take your time and put in the + if you are talking about the community. But as far as I have seen you are not talking about the whole community.
Also, you have implied it already several times so I am gonna say it here now: I am NOT a crossdresser nor drag queen at all and I don’t need them to be part of the community to feel included. Don’t know why you have to imply that..
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but DbD has background stories for their established characters since the very beginning, including romantical relationships etc.
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You do realize people like you are why representation is needed?
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I don’t think you can just choose to like certain clothing. It’s not that simple. The clothing just naturally makes you feel comfortable, and cross dressers do get discriminated against. Trans definitely get more discriminated against and I won’t deny that, but I don’t think it’s fair to say cross dressers shouldn’t also get some kind of representation too.
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Yes I'm talking about the whole community.
LGBT+ people cant choose to not be LGBT+. Crossdressers can choose what clothes they put on. We aren't the same.
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Agreed.
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I also think sweaters are more comfortable than tshirts, that doesnt make me a discriminated minority.
Furries also get discriminated against, that doesn't make them LGBT+.
You can choose your clothes and you can choose to be a crossdresser, you can't choose to be trans/gay/bi/lesbian/ace
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