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Who do you think will be the next character for LGBT representation?
Comments
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Because that's what being an ally is. It still doesn't make you part of a marginalized group.
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They don't have to be a part of LGBT+ to be in a marginalized group. Crossdressers are also a marginalized group that should be accepted as normal in society.
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And who said otherwise?
I'm just saying they are not part of LGBT+, which they are not if they are straight and cis.
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I don’t see why you need to be so exclusive really.
i state it again: drag/crossdressers are for me part of the LGBTQ+ community but they are not trans. I can see where @GoodBoyKaru and @ImmersedNurse come from and why they don’t include them. But at least they aren’t being as exclusive as you and are open to the concept of acknowledging that they still are facing actual struggles and are still important for the LGBTQ+ community.
also for your other examples: yes imo a white person can be POC (albinism for example, also I am pretty sure there are POC that you could on the first glance mistake for a white person with a tan etc).
and yes, able bodied people can be included in groups for disabled.. like why do you think ‚able bodied‘ needs the body part? Yeah there are other disabilities..
the LGBTQ+ community is loosely defined. You are acting like I have stated that drag queens are trans and actually you tried to put these exact words in my mouth several times in the last discussion. I did not as that though.
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Whether or not they're LGBT+ is pretty much irrelevant. They're a marginalized group people should be standing with, along with LGBT+, people of color, etc etc.
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You can deny it as much as you want but they are part of it.
there's no "ally", using this just separate people who pursue a common goal, inside a marginalized groupe you're maginalizing people ?
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Oh now it is irrelevant? It was all the discourse was about, if they are part of LGBT+ or not, so no it is not irrelevant.
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don't get me wrong but could a mod move this topic to "off topic" the conversation got nothing to do with the game anymore
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I agree, we should get back to why every single character in DBD is LGBT+.
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I dont even know what else to say to this, you're just being ignorant at this point.
Next you're gonna say furries are also part of LGBT+ because I say so.
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Discourse that make no sense in the first place this they obviously are part of the LGBTQ+
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Obviously why? Because you say so? No.
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Groups do exist and identity matters, but (and I am not necessarily accusing you of this) strict gatekeeping and infighting amongst subdivisions of generally oppressed/marginalized demographics only serves to harm the whole and benefit the oppressor(s).
Distilling groups down to their exact compositions and deciding who belongs in what box is a secondary concern to the larger issue.
Causes being undermined by infighting is a tale as old as history, and you see it play out anywhere people are oppressed.
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They're not why ? Because you say so ? No.
works both ways
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I wholeheartedly support this cause. And I'll start with explaining why Mikaela Reid is a trans lesbia-
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Not accusing you of this either, but that's the same thing people on twitter say who want to include pedos in the LGBT+ community.
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Which is literally an effort that started from 4chan to try and sow distrust in the LGBT+ community. Also the trolls that try and start up things like "LGB drop the T" as if the trolls wouldn't move to the other letters next too if that worked.
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Third this.
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Sure
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That's exactly my problem with it.
By including all these people just because they want to dress different clothes it will just make it more difficult for trans people like myself to be understood.
Idk how many times I've seen people think trans people are just "man in woman's clothes" and whatever else.
As a trans person, my own experience, I'm going through medical transition, I had to come out to friends/family with the fear of being disowned just so I can be who I am on my day to day life.
Most crossdressers dont have to deal with any of these things, coming out, being disowned, because they can just put it on and off. Trans people cannot.
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Well, there is still the problem that there are lesbian/gay people that are discriminating against trans for example while there are cishet people (allies) that are super supportive for any gender identity etc. You really can’t draw a line here.
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Nerdy introvert girl, check.
Is into witchcraft, check.
Looks adorable, check.
I agree.
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Then as sworn by Oath upon the Gay Little Birb
I, GoodBoyKaru, declare Mikaela Reid a canonical trans lesbian.
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would be good if you stopped saying that drag are just people who like to wear different clothes since you are not in their category and don't know how they feel about it.
trans people are not alone in the LGBTQ+ community, everyone should be recognized equally for who they are, no one is above the other.
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Cisgender Straight drag queens literally are only dressing as woman.
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you don't know how they feel, and how they live with that so, you should stop assuming things.
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If they are cisgender and straight yes I know what they feel, they are men who like women and like to put women's clothes on for a show.
That's literally what a cis straight drag queen is.
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„All these people“? I don’t have any numbers but I don’t think actual crossdressers make up more than trans people for example…
i don’t think we are talking about the same kind of people here.
i have stated several times I am not referring to a man that just crossdresses once for fun and then never again. I am talking about crossdressers that actually feel uncomfortable and are having struggles etc.
and this is not about talking trans down. Actually including them would help to make differentiations between them more clear and point out the individual struggles these groups have to go through.
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You're not a cis straight drag so you don't know how they feel and how they are discriminated for it.
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Today on cis hetero people want badly to be victims
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The best way to show the differences between trans people and cis straight crossdressers is for the later to not be in the LGBT+ community. That's the difference.
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Didn't remember stating that I was a cis hetero somewhere.
Just saying that you assume knowing what being a drag is while not being one.
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Drag queen isn’t an identity. I don’t have to be one to know what a drag queen is.
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i agree with that line. But it’s still the + that isn’t well defined here.
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Vouch
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Oh. Well. I thought there were differences between gay men and trans women. But apparently, since they are in the same group here, there are no differences? Weird.
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what do you want them to focus on? Cause only 1 or 2 teams would actually focus on this
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same for trans, gay and overall queer people depanding of where they live, they're not always oppressed.
didn't say all drag were not just cross dresser, i'm talking about the movement as a whole
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There are different, but they both have something in common: they aren’t straight or/and cisgender.
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No, I'm not, so I don't know what they face. What I do know is they aren't part of the LGBT+ community if they're cis and het. They may be allies, and they may be fighting their own serious battles against prejudice and discrimination that I would gladly help them fight, but they aren't under the LGBT+ acronym (under mine and many other's definition of "queer" anyway).
Do they face persecution? Most likely. Does this deserve to be diminished? Not at all. Given the current climate across the world I'd rather we amplify everyone's voices if we can because every marginalised person deserves to be heard and deserves to be seen. But they aren't part of the LGBT community, which is what the debate is all about.
Drag culture and cross-dressers have done immeasurable good things for the LGBT community and are probably a key part in why I can feel comfortably gay and not worry about constant persecution (or, used to notworry about constant persecution after my childhood anyway, but that seems to have gone out the window), but they were allies in that battle, not part of the community they fought for. They aren't affected by laws surrounding same-sex marriage, intercourse, or HRT, identity changes, etc. And that's, I think, the crux of the debate.
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If they were oppressed everywhere they could not even express themself, which isn't the case.
Don't play dumb you know what I meant.
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Damn tell me where they’re paying trans people just for being trans, I’d love to get my hands on that cash.
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So you need to be paid for existing to not be oppressed ? Didn't knew that.
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I think this is fair. I do think cross dressers should have representation, but it probably will be appropriate to make their own separate community.
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Omg take me with you I'll bring Gay Little Bird !!
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Canada
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Even in the MOST inclusive countries on this planet, there are still people that do not support them. Just because the legal system does, does not mean everyone in said country does. Of said people, some will still openly discriminate against or harass them, or even resort to violence.
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Actually I think they are lgbtq
While there is a difference between transgender and a cross-dressers
Here is some interesting history
I think people who cross dress are considered transvestites, it was a term coined by a sex researchers and it's means a person who dress as the opposite gender either in public or in private. The researchers gave them transvestite cards so they wouldn't be hassled by the police. The term unfortunately feel out of uses since it's used to describe any cross dressing and became derogatory.
Transgender is a term coined in the 1960s and its used to describe someone's who's gender identity doesn't match their gender at birth or sex.
Drag is an entertainment form. The original term was female impersonator. It is differently apart of lgbtq as a lot of drag queens are lgbtq people and has been populated by lgbtq people.
I think its fine to call a straight cisgender person who does drag lgbtq since they should be considered transvestites.
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Yeah, I personally regard such things as concerted efforts by non-LGTBQ+ bigots to subvert the cause of equality by feeding into QAnon-ish BS narratives.
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Oh, um...
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