Scourge Hook:Pain Resonance should have been nerfed in a different way.
So we all know the Pain Res is getting a nerf. Which no longer gives information of what generator explodes, and if a survivor is working on it or not. However i think nerf could have been done differently and honestly the current nerf is pretty stupid. Pain Res was good for information, of the gen exploding or even if a survivor was working on it. What they could have done was remove the Pain Res+Deadman's Switch combo. And even remove the survivor screaming but not the generator so we could atleast know more or less what generator was with progress. 15% was never too much. Specially if it was being worked on by 2 or more people. What's the point in using this if you don't have the information to stop whatever gen is being worked on. Pretty lame nerf tbh.
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Honestly, all it needed to change was the explosion and screams, instead it should give a noise notification on the affected gen
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I disagree on giving pain resonainse back the noise notification, I don't think this perk should give information while already giving you slowdown regression by 15%, gen regression can be very strong especially if an Artist with dead man switch is on
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Removing info completely from it literally just incentivizes camping and tunneling more lmfao. You give killers no sort of direction to go. Pain res with just noise notification would be fine because DMS combo was literally the only thing making Pain res super OP. When you remove the thing telling killers where to move away from the hook from... chances are they end up more confused and stay at the hook until they can find harder info as to where someone is. Or they just wander for a long time trying to figure out what gen is progressed.
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I have to disagree. The information was very strong when combined with the regression, and removing it also led to nerfing the DMS/Pain Res combo, which absolutely deserved it.
I wouldn't be averse to it being tweaked into a pure information perk instead of a pure regression perk, provided that the scream is still removed so it can't be combo'd with DMS, but I wouldn't say that version of the perk would be strictly better than the version from the PTB. They'd both be pretty good and balanced.
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Pain Resonance actually did get a second nerf that is easy to miss:
Saboteur now shows the survivor which hooks are Scourge Hooks.
The whole thing about Pain Resonance is that it requires the killer to take their victim to a specific spot: one of only four hooks on the map (unless they're also running Monstrous Shrine, but who would). That means that attentive survivors (or every SWF team) can just see where the survivor went down, and Sabo the nearest scourge hook. Or, if the survivor being chased is one with Sabo, they can just run to a spot where there are no scourge hooks around and the killer can't make it to one.
Sabo is, for sure, becoming a part of every SWF team comp perk selection. And if you think Pain Resonance is too strong, you can just take Sabo and negate it yourself.
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There's perks like barbecue that gives you information too, not just pain resonainse, also I believe you can somewhat do that by combining pain resonainse with servailence, since the gen is being regressed
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honestly if they removed scream and regression, and made it so the perk only gave info i would still run it.
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Remove the notification if NO ONE is working on the gen. Fixed, the perk is balanced now. If they want to make the perk purely slowdown, then make it explode for 20% at least.
But really, just put back the scream. It makes no sense not to be punished for not getting off the gen.
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Nah I disagree, it’s still going to be a very strong perk and in some cases actually better than before since it has more regression. It’s still 15%, but that’s going to be 15% of 90 which is more than 15% of 80 was. So in some cases if you already know which gen likely has the most progress, it may give you even more value than it did previously.
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It's little better than a failed skillcheck.
A failed skillcheck regresses by 10% and then pauses repairs for 3s, effectively -13%.
If the survivors just carry on repairing through Pain Res, then it doesn't provide much slowdown at all. It's 2s better than a failed skillcheck, without the notification, and it can only be triggered on special scourge hooks.
Most of the pressure of slowdown perks comes from getting survivors off the gens in the first place.
Pop for example gets much more value than the 25% regression, because you're there to kick it, meaning survivors aren't.
If you have no means to get to the gen Pain Res hit to apply pressure, then survivors can just repair on through it. It'll take them 15 more seconds, but it'll take you much more than that to find out which gen it is unless you're also running BBQ or Surveillance or something.
This kind of passive slowdown would be acheived more effectively and more reliably by something like Thanatophobia or Pentimento. After all, the only thing you're doing is sporadically making the odd gen take 15 more seconds with no other way to apply pressure.
Hell you'd be better off with Hex: Lullaby, at least then you'd get a notification.
I think it should still trigger a noise notification to indicate which gen it hit, but still remove the scream, so you don't know if a survivor is there. This way you can gamble on pressuring that gen, if a survivor is there great! If there's no survivors there you've wasted valuable time, but at least you know that gen isn't getting instantly repaired anyway.
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This is however the perfect nerf: you still get the same amount of generator regression with high probability (finding scourge hook), but the perk is not anymore a swiss army knife with regression + detection + potential synergy with DMS perk.
That what obviously too much for a single perk for obvious reasons.
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Yea lmao but the thing is, deadman's switch can't be used now.
Oh yeah, it still regresses but the thing is. If someone is working on it and you dont know who and what gen because there's no info. it's useless. You are just delaying a few seconds the inevitable
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No tbh a perk shouldn't be both an info perk and a regression perk at the same time (and be very good at both).
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Thrilling Tremors has been doing that for years.
It blocks gens so they can't be repaired, and it gives info on which gens are currently being repaired. Furthermore it works on every single gen at once.
Additionally survivors will learn that you're using it, and let go of a gen before you pick someone up, thereby guaranteeing the 16s of slowdown which is comparable in effect to the 15% from Pain Res.
Pain Res works on one gen at a time, and it requires A special hook.
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I think PR should make the gen explode and regress by like 8-10%
The scream is what causes survivors to let go of the gen not the explosion so that should be fine
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Thrilling tremors blocks generators, it doesn't make them regress. Also it blocks gens survivors aren't working on, so it's really just information. If survivors decide to not let the killer get info by leaving the gen, 16s of not being able to work on it seems like a fair trade.
Ultimately, with Thrilling tremors either you get the info (which gens survivors are on) or you get the cooldown (gen that was being worked on is blocked bc a survivor didn't want you to know where they are), but you don't get both on a single generator, unlike PR.
Also I'd argue not being able to work on a gen for a certain amount of time is weaker than actively losing progress, bc once the gen stops being blocked it hasn't lost anything, but if you're not here to stop a gen from regressing it'll go back to 0. In that aspect PR isn't just 15%, it's 15% + whatever the gen loses until survivors come back to it, and it's stupidly easy to get them off of it when the perk also lets you know which gen you need to go to.
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I went against a damn Blight yesterday who was running Pain Res + Dead Man and honestly I can't agree with having this perk give the notification anymore. He could quickly check the gen, regardless if there was someone or not, then just go back to chasing someone else, and as a high mobility and lethality killer, he was getting Pain Res to trigger multiple times in a ridiculous spam of time, while also destroying the solos who kept going back to gens which he would check to guarantee the Dead Man for more 45 seconds. It was stupid and annoying as hell, and I get it that not every killer is a meta Blight with speed or a meta Nurse with range, but still, I couldn't be happier with the current changes considering how much this perk already delivers on its own.
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didnt needed nerf, the scream was counterable by any surv with half a brain
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I think the pain res change is fine. It's not like its going to be a bad perk now, the regression on it is untouched and with gens taking longer that means each trigger is getting you 1.5 more seconds worth of regression.
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That's the thing, without the info and without being able to pressure survivors off the gen, then survivors are not getting off the gen, can just carry on repairing as usual, and the 15% regression is no more effective than blocking it for 16s, or no more effective than a single missed skill check (13% with notification).
Absolutely Pain Res with the notification is stronger than Thrilling Tremors, but without the notification it's not only weaker than Thrilling Tremors, it's weaker than a missed skillcheck.
I know I won't be using it anymore, it's simply not worth the hassle of finding a scourge hook, especially when Saboteur can highlight scourges to survivors. Back to good old Thrilling Tremors, back to the old meta. Such fun.
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My idea was simple, it regresses gens at 200 % if they are not worked on for as long as survivor remains hooked and killer is further than 12m. Healthy and simple design. At the moment it requires you to go to scourge hooks that can spawn at awfull spots, so smart killers will run surge or eruption. That eliminates the urge to hook on specific hook and has immidate effect on down. Soon pain resonance will be dead perk as well as whole scourge hook mechanic. Pain resonance was high risk high reward. If you made it to scourge it tells you where to go and decresed gen a little. Now it's more designed to camp and trade one for one to get the most value out of it. Bad change. Currently we have 4 scourge perks. Gift of pain isn't that useless now, but the fact that it's a sloppy butcher + weaker thana that is removed by injuring makes that perk still kinda trash. You need to let survivors do gens to have value out of it. Don't see people run gift of pain at all. For the year it's out not many people used it and reason why is simple, removing on injuring. Floods of rage is actually really good info perk, but again the fact that it must be a specific hook that can spawn at the corner of the map, in worst scenario all of them at the same spot make it quite bad to utilize from. But it's effect is really good if you are lucky to make it to scourges. Again no one really runs it, mostly because of it triggers on unhook and BBQ was in the game for extra BP. We'll see. Pain resonance at the moment works like surge, no longer shows you which gen/gens are exploding. You see if it worked at score points, but the fact that 15 % is not that much and again it must be triggered on specific hook and no longer gives you any info will result in survivors taking extra 8s to fo gen if working with other, 15s if working alone. Overall they will finish it before you approach, especially when now you don't know where to go. Paired with surveillance make it still somewhat good. But it's informative part was way stronger than regression. Told you where to go and which survivor worked on gen. Scourges are probbably dead. In some meme build they can still work, or if you are too lazy to kick gens. Monstrous shrine as newest rewoked scourge perk is unhealthy and bad for more reasons. It makes camping basement more valuable if you don't care about 60s->48s second stage/dying or if you play specific killers. In swf it will be awfull still because it shows you that killer has it, so you can just tell team that they need to rush save and to make it work killer needs to be far away so it's quite safe to do it.
If i rate strenght of perks in case that you can make each hook on scourge than:
Pain resonance is 6/10 was 10/10.
Floods of rage is 8/10.
Gift of pain is 4/10 was 2/10.
TBH, what kills pain resonance was Dead Man's Switch buff. Just a simple exaple that devs don't think about changes they do. It was obvious that it will be nasty combo especially in solo and lower mmr. That result in making pain resonance way less healthy perk and DMS still strong on killers like Artist, Blight, Dredge, Onryo... Shame, I liked that perk, but tbh I will rather run surge now. Few reasons why:
1) It triggeres on down, doesnt need you to go to specific hook being blocked by others.
2) Works on multiple gens, so the 15 % to one gen can be 8 % divided to three gens which is way more viable.
3) You can gather from score poinst which gens are worked on and decide where to go.
4) Goes through blocked gens.
5) Can be triggered multiple times in short time.
6) can't be countered by sabo, recovery perks...
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Missing skillchecks is 10%, not 13%. Granted 15% isn't that much more anyways, but survivors don't usually miss skillchecks. Also 15% is now more than before because 15% of 80s is less than 15% of 90s, so the regression aspect of the perk was technically buffed bc of the gen speed nerf. I agree the perk will obviously be weaker now, but i don't think it'll be bad.
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Now I'm repeating myself as I literally said this above. (Two posts up from the first post of mine that you quoted)
Failing a skill check is 10% regression + 3s of no repair progress. Totals 13.75% slowdown.
Which is also more than before because it's 13.75% of 90.
A failed skillcheck also comes with a notification. So for the sake of 1.25% (1 second of repair) a failed skillcheck is better.
Run Huntress' Lullaby instead.
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