Trickster design into redesign baffles me
This is old but I wasnt talking on here back then really and If some good comes out of conversations to make him more fun then its a win/win.
BHVR's design philosophy baffles me .When trickster came out he was meh. Not strong map pressure and no counter play. So both sides complained about something that was relatively valid. BHVR looks at the feedback and decides to buff his unfun aspect and call it a day.
When imo the fix was to either keep the blade count where it was. Keep how many blades were needed to injure or increase it depending on balance. Make him normal movement speed. Then for counter play make it so the blades dont just magically disappear but the survivors can pull them out similar to mend, but then you can gamble it for other things like saves or gen pressure. He gets map pressure and some counter play.
I seriously want to understand the thought process behind this design philosophy. Any thoughts as to why they just completely ignored the feedback or decided to go the way they went?
Comments
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Removing his blades to slowdown Survivors as a "buff" to nerf his chase doesn't sound like a good deal at all to me.
I bet removing blades would took max similar time as mend which in that case it is not worth trade off. Also since when is removing his blades aka mending fun for Survivors? They allready hate Legion allready. So all in all, making his chases take longer (direct nerf + less fun to play as) to make it bit slowdown (not fun for Survivors as well) Isn't really a win/win to me. All in all It would be a quite a big nerf for him.
Honestly imo he is fine as he is now. I don't mind him as a solo Survivor and he is decent fun as killer. He is not strong.
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I think all he needs is a faster base holding-knife speed. If he has to throw more knives to get an injure, then he should at least be encouraged to hold his knives more at a loop and exponentially slow down as he fires them like he already does. Otherwise some other things may just be a quality of life change like holding more knives.
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It creates a scenario where he doesnt have to commit to a chase fully to down someone. He can return later or benefit from some game slowdown. Current trickster is oppressive in chase and his cooldown on blades makes it so he has to commit to the down or he wasted his time. Obviously with the method that im describing there would have to be some testing.
This is different then mending in that theres not a timer to remove them just a threat of picking up the chase where you left off with him. So it wont inhibit survivor game play like mending does. You could make it so that another teammate can remove the blades quicker. Deincentivizing removing them in chase. Hes also trading lethality for map pressure and game slowdown. So is it a nerf? I dont think so if implemented properly.
As he is now hes oppressive in the 1v1 and not fun at all for survivors. As killer he has no pressure so against good teams hes also not fun. These changes would also make camping less rewarding. Since if played right he can guarantee a trade.
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With the purposed change there would be balancing to iron out. So speed and knives to injure would need to be played with.
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I have played a lot of Trickster lately, I think Im medium mmr. Trickster performs fine at my skill level, hes takes alot of getting used to, but hes fine. Certainly not overpowered and I need to play pretty cruel to secure a win.
However when I meet a team who can dodge well, I have to rely alot more on my own cruelty to get results.
I hope BHVR can give him some edge vs. higher mmr while still keep him reasonable at low skill level.
Trickster is like almost there, imo. I suggest, give him a free knife bounce by default.
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I'm not one to really lean on realism but lacerations are usually giant gashes not when something gets stabbed into you.
I see it more like, tricksters blades slash ur calf's and neck when speeding by you instead of sticking into ur skin. So picking blades out won't make sense.
Then again nothing makes sense in this game so either way it would be fine.
I'm more worried that picking out blades would make him even less fun to go against, because you are basically slapping legions mend on him
But honestly I think he's fine the way he is, and I still think he is the most fun to play, and is can do well on any map.
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The issue with Trickster is that his power is difficult to buff because of its current nature. It's unfun on both sides as OP said. Because of that the devs simply cannot just buff his power outright because that only makes him more unfun to play against. There has to be a significant change to his power or in worse case a rework
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I liked the idea of requiring "mending" to remove knives as it gives him some macro strategy other than unga bunga over commit to chases because your 7 knife hits heal in 20 seconds otherwise. It's also just dumb and unimmersive, the whole auto heal thing. It feels like everything just lacks any real consequence.
Imo it should require a teammate to pull out knives. In this way you can force survivors to decide to risk splitting up for efficiency or group up to heal. This would help Trickster apply pressure without camping, and give him potential chances to get Main Event value around multiple survivors, while still giving survivors agency.
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Honestly I preferred how he was prior to his changes. I really liked how relentless he could be with 60/70 knives.
I didn't really like how the changes made his strengths stronger and weaknesses weaker. The lower laceration made getting caught out much more lethal and the fall off time made knives much more useless at loops with walls.
I actually posted a topic awhile back asking if memento blades could get changed to basically revert him. Still kinda hoping for that but I'm not expecting it.
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Nah, I'm gonna completely disagree with having teammates pull out blades of even pulling them out urself. We don't need to buff his chase power
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As a Survivor, I actually would like to have an animation where I have to pull out his blades. I'd even be fine with, upon pulling them out, the blades are now on the ground and collectable (similar to blood orbs for Oni). This would make it so he doesn't have to always return to a locker, which gives him a bit more flexibility. It would also give the Survivors some more control. (To be fair, it would be annoying in solo queue to see a Survivor remove their blades near a gen you're working on or in some other terribly picked spot, but that's solo queue anyway. Smart Survivors could have some play, and it would also slow down the game a bit because they pick when--and where--to do the animation). Would a change like that have an impact on his current blade count? Movement speed? I believe that certainly would have to be considered. But I actually want Trickster to have a total rework. Aesthetically, he's my favorite. And would Huntress-mains also like the ability to "pick up" a hatchet? Probably. But that's a separate issue.
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he should have normal holding speed. the slowdown of holding his knifes just makes you constantly pull out knifes and pull them back constantly because of LOS counter. it makes his tile set gameplay completely rubbish. I am not exactly sure what slowdown of throwing more knifes is for either. he's meant to throw many knifes consecutively so its almost like your punished for using your power despite being a 110% m/s killer that relies on the power to be effective.
he doesn't map pressure because his 1vs1 is not oppressive, its situational effective, works great in deadzones, but is ineffective at tiles. If your 1vs1 as killer isn't dominating, your not going have any map pressure as killer vs good team. this isn't complicated concept to understand. he can acquire gameplay slowdown by utilizing various killer perks that regress/block generators.
there isn't much reason for a killer who is centralized in 1vs1 to need switch targets. Like... this killer isn't wraith. he has no mobility. He either wins 1vs1 and wins or loses 1vs1 and loses entire game.
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The problem I find with Trickster is the same issue BHVR has with Trapper: if you buff him, those scenarios that play to his strengths are powerful.
Everyone's gone against the Trickster who comes back to hook as a save is happening and peppering both survivors. Because as Trickster, you are forced to do it for pressure.
Same as basement Trapper. Having everywhere in shack Trapped is almost impossible to get to the survivor who's hooked.
My problem with Trickster is there is no reason to play him over any other ranged character. Huntress requires 1 hit to injure and has janky hit boxes that can go through things you wouldn't expect it to. Slinger can also get shots through holes in things and have them hooked on, and even if you fail to reel them in, you still get a health state and deep wound. Trickster doesn't nothing special. Even main event is just... Throwing more knives.
Tricksters knives should bounce. At least then he has an actual difference in his ability that would make him actually different.
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I find Trickster far more consistent on about every map, while Huntress struggles alot more on indoor maps compared to trickster.
I still really like huntress but main trickster
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