http://dbd.game/killswitch
Can we not nerf things in the way that just simply makes them more clunky?
The best examples of this are Deathslinger and Twins. They just do not feel good anymore. Sure they may have been unfun for some but there is still better ways to nerf them even though Deathslinger should have never been needed to begin with. But someone like Twins should've been nerfed to make something like the cooldown more punishing if you make a mistake. Something like that. Not an 8 year cool down when you hit someone. It's annoying whn they are true only one around and you down them and then you have to wait for so long to just simply switch to Charlotte which feels horrible.
Comments
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While I agree that Twins need some love (that they'll hopefully be getting soon enough, thank god), I think it's missing the point a little to say the cooldown should only be for punishing a mistake. The point of the nerfs was to stop Victor from slugging, which requires something for after he succeeds in downing someone.
Now, in my opinion, you should be able to swap to Charlotte during that cooldown. That is the only change his post-down cooldown needs, as far as I'm concerned, and the other aspects of Twins should get more focus.
Also, obviously Deathslinger needed nerfs, we don't gain anything from pretending otherwise.
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Did he tho? Wasn't slinger just a middle of the pack killer at best even before the nerfs.
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I hardly see any Twins or Deathslinger....they're almost 'Freddy' tier in terms of frequency in my games.
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He really didn't need nerfs. His stuggles have always been the 4v1 considering how long he has to spend reloading mid chase, between missed shots, and after getting his down. All of this takes time.
I agree with @TheDarkTyrant, so many killers are clunky and simply feel bad to use. Have you tried using base kit Pigs power in chase? Why on earth are the numbers as punishing and clunky as they are now? 1.3 seconds to crouch and uncrouch, 0.75 seconds to charge up a dash, on top of 4 seconds fadeout AFTER the 1.3 seconds to crouch before your terror radius is gone.
Same with Freddy, you have to charge up your snare, then release it, and it hardly does anything. And why can't survivors start in the dream? Or make the addon that prevents releasing yourself with a failed skillcheck basekit?
Or like mentioned Slinger, 0.4 seconds ADS? Why? If the issue was spamming aim and release without losing distance, just make the ADS 0.2 and his MS while aiming 70%, down from 80% right now. That way every time you aim in and release, you lose a lot of distance as you're slowed while aiming and releasing the ADS. Also revert the Terror Radius to 24 and add a lullaby.
I could go on and on, but in short, most of the killers on the bottom of the roster aren't even that bad in theory or in concept, they're just held back by super terrible numbers. Boggles the mind why they can't just change the numbers in one patch and test if it improves killer variety.
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Yes.
He wasn't overpowered, but his kit had problems that made him cheap and unfair. Those things needed to be fixed, regardless of the end result right now.
He still needs work but we gain nothing from acting as though the problems with his kit before didn't exist.
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I reckon slinger needs new add ons that can increase his Ads time
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While slinger might not feel as great to use as he did before, the ADS nerf was unfortunately necessary. Quickscoping just wasn’t good design in a game like DBD - it’s not an FPS game and shouldn’t be treated like one. I do think he could use some improvements in other areas though.
As for Twins, you should be allowed to switch back to Charlotte faster after downing someone with Victor. The cooldown should only stay at 5 seconds if you intend to continue using Victor, as that was the whole point of that nerf.
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Deathslinger doesn't need a lullaby.
People were complaining that spine chill was becoming useless when the devs initially announced it would only work on LoS to killer. Deathslinger requires LoS to hit you with a spear so having the ability to reduce his terror radius to lower than his 18m range is not a huge problem that ever needed to be removed. With M&A, there's a 2m range where you won't have a TR that he could hit you at, but those shots at 16-18m are the easiest to break out of it.
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Deathslinger has the entire chain break mechanic to act as counterplay to being hit. Quickscoping was never an issue.
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Also: Freddy's traps.
Walking around, setting traps felt great. It felt smooth and natural, like an extension of his dream powers.
Post nerf, you slow down to a degree that makes the power feel awful to use. And that's on top of getting few pools to draw from (and all his other many, many nerfs). All they had to do to keep him feeling fun to control was to NOT add in that slow down but sure enough: it's more important to gut the killer top to bottom than to make the experience of playing the character enjoyable.
And that's not even to mention that the overwhelming complaint was his teleport, not his snares. His snares were perfectly fine. The teleport with old Tinkerer/Pop was very, very strong. So, rather than nerf the teleport, they nerfed the active power that you rely on the most to actually have fun.
Now that Tinkerer and Pop are both getting mega-nerfed, you just know they won't back down on any of the Freddy Nerfs that sent him from A-Tier right down to F-tier, both in terms of game performance and game-feel.
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Yeah, changes I'd make to twins are small and straightforward.
Swapping to Charlotte from Victor now takes 2 seconds instead of 3, you can now swap as soon as you've downed someone with Victor.
Victor can be summoned back to Charlotte when Charlotte is within 16 meters of Victor. Why is this not a thing already, I don't know. Would dramatically reduce slugging and camping and promote healthy gameplay.
And finally, increase the time to get Victor back after he dies to 12 seconds. Right now it feels awful for the survivors to outplay Victor, then have him spawn after 6 seconds and come running right back to them like nothing happened. A little more time would be fair.
Such easy, small changes, but no, they're a "monster at high mmr" and are to be nerfed accordingly.
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Yeah the Spine Chill change is so strange. They first gut stealthslinger, but now they massively buff undetectable in general and stealth killers far beyond what M&A slinger was capable of. So what is it, is Stealth fine or is it not fine? Man it's time to revert the nerfs. I still think he should get a lullaby to help newbies out though. It could be subtle enough to where it would sort of work with M&A. Kind of like with Tricksters lullaby fading in and out in a confusing way, so M&A works well on him.
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While I agree with your main point here, Deathslinger needed the aim nerf. To constantly spam your aim was just unfun and bad game design. U can still zone people with your aiming and it is still pretty possible to hit people with your chain. Just his Terror Radius nerf was 100% undeserved. The only thing he needs, is a little cooldown and reload buff. Just some small tweaks.
But you are right: Tweaking some numbers on killers like Deathslinger, Pig, Trapper, Trickster etc. could make them much more enjoyable. Freddy imo needs a rework. As a Pre Freddy Main, I do miss my old Freddy :( The Dreamworld feels so pointless to me + his addons are a bad joke. Give him some love man.
I do see some Twins btw. And Twins are pretty strong, but they do need a QOL change like u said.
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IT was an issue - that's why it got nerfed like that. And for the same reason like Pyramid Heads Cooldown got nerfed. Faking your ability like that takes 0 skill, counters way too many things + their is no room for reacting to Deathslinger scope. And the Chainbreak mechanic does not counter Quickscoping btw.
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Pretending something that was obviously needed wasn't needed is quite special behaviour of killer players.
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Twins for sure didnt need the nerf , Slinger however needed a penalty for contantly spamming m2 into m1 for mindgames because the shoot was instant , however i think the best way to change Slinger was making a penalty for missing shoot while not using the scope, like a longer reload time or a movement penalty for doing BAD quick shoots rather than making the gun clunky and slower.
(also why 32 meters TR? i think 28 meters TR was the best option to nerf his stealth problems with Monitor and Abuse)
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And nothing has been done about Deathslinger being able to fake his power as it's just as strong if not stronger than it was before due to the movement speed buff.
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He can't really quickscope that anymore so you actually have time to react. It is much more manageable for survivors.
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You still can't vault or go for the pallet while deathslinger is aiming right there. And he loses less distance doing so. His zoning game is much stronger and since it doesn't require actually needing to make shots it doesn't really require much skill.
Quickscoping required actual skill and the chain break existed as a mechanic to give survivors an ability to deny the down. Which is also broken, because deathslinger can just walk backwards denying survivors the ability to engage in that counterplay.
Basically the deathslinger nerfs were garbage. They nerfed things that took skill, made the unskilled things that people complained about better and because you barely see deathslingers anymore because he feels bad to play as no one complains about it.
At the end of the day quickscoping was never the core issue. It gave Deathslinger players something fun and skillful to play around.
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Like I already explained, I have to disagree even tho I respect your opinion. At the end his Quickscope received a valid nerf whether you like it or not.
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Deathslinger needed the nerf. Quickscoping constantly was unfair and created a lose-lose scenario for survivors. It was the same reason for Pyramid Head being nerfed.
As for his TR nerf, I think it was necessary due to Slinger approaching from blindspots and using his M1 to injure you first, then shoot you after his attack cooldown.
That being said, I think Slinger could use tweaks in other areas to make him more fun to play while also making him a stronger pick than he currently is.
Twins I have no comment on. Don't much care for Twins.
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I play both roles. It also doesn't make sense because I don't play those characters but I'm still gonna say it's a bad way to change or nerf characters.
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He feels worse play. That's not how you design killers. It doesn't make him much more fun for survivors anyways. Just makes him unfun to play.
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Nothing else would necessarily make him more fun since the main part feels clunky.
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I don't play Deathslinger so I'd have no idea how to fix that. In the spirit of discussion, however, I'd like to know specifically what about it makes it feel clunky.
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If you don't play slinger, how can anyone describe the clunky feeling? You won't have a point of reference.
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The moment the devs realize that killers are having fun playing killer, incoming nerf!
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I don't play Slinger doesn't mean I never played him. Played him when he was released and just didn't vibe with his kit.
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Twins took a hit to the addons and not much else. I wouldn't say they are any different than their release state.
Deathslinger took a kick to the nether regions. The ads is clunky and feels terrible. I do agree with the terror radius change but they could of went with a lullaby instead.
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