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Thoughts on Hook camping (it's a consistent spicy topic)
I've even complained about this in solo play as of late. It seems like more and more killers are doing it, simply because little to no advantage NOT to do it. Whenever I get hooked, is everybody on a Gen? Nope... I see MAYBE one dude working on one. Then the other two are off either aimlessly running, opening chests for no reason, or I kid you not i've seen people crouch hiding in the basement as of late. This MMR system is a joke but that's an entirely different conversation.
Everyone always says they have no idea how to reduce Hook camping and give incentive for the Killer to leave. I got one for you right here. Hot off the "I just had a shower and had time to think" press.
Give all other survivors after X amount of time a repair bonus. Seriously. If they aren't going to penalize the killer for camping the hook. Give the other survivors a bonus for the fact that they can't get the other person. (Especially against insta down killers like Bubba and the like). Punish the killer for playing this way. It's not to say it still can't be done with Insidious. Are you within the range BHVR deems is a no no to give others the bonus? You can show an action pop up on the right side that slowly fills. Outside of it the bar doesn't fill. Doesn't have to be OMEGA far. But like say outside of the shack away from Basement. Still enough room to insidious just not directly in their face. Don't want to give the other survs the buff to rush you on Gens? Go actively stop them. They don't have to get a wild 6% increase or anything. give them like 3%. That's only a 9% increase if they are all on like 1 Gen (Trust me, solo queue you see some wild #########). But even spread apart that's only a 3% increase and an incentive for the Killer to go and not camp them.
IT's just a thought to try and fix this nonsense. Especially coming up with the whole increase to Gen time and the fact that somebody did the math and said you could fully camp 2 hooks before 3 Gens were done or some #########. At this point, the killer cannot say Survivors had it easy if they actively gave them the buff in the first place.
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The issue is not incentives to not camp or punishments for camping.
The issue is that there isn't a way to do it that doesn't punish normal players. Sometimes, you gotta camp and that's just how it is.
Do we punish the guy who camps a Survivor to death in the middle of a close three gen because Bubba can't find his way out of the basement at 5 gens?
We do not. Not yet, at least. The best thing you can do is make more perks like BBQ and less like PR. Info is great because it gives you the ability to know where people are but it makes you leave in order to actually do anything productive. PR, on the other hand, regresses gens by a significant amount and gives you info, occasionally.
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More perks like BBQ? How many information perks do you want made in the game lol You have more than enough. Saying this only reinforces that it's just a behavior the community doesn't want changed (At least the killers). I myself don't have to resort to camping or tunneling. And yes, there are times i've seen it's needed. But it's most definitely not near the beginning. ANd it's most certainly not fun for the person not getting ot actually play the game.
In fact, all this does is make bad players stay playing poorly. It doesn't incentivize them going out and actually learning to play better. ie looking for scratch marks, listening to faint gen work without getting too close, looking for blood pools of injured survivors. Etc.
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When I play killer and survivors follow me to the hook for a save you know we hear you behind us right? I can probably see a toolbox or medkit behind a tree or in a shrub. You give me no reason to leave since I can possibly force a trade. Just standing there clicking a flashlight tells me you're not alone. Again why leave? Altruism isn't guaranteed be a bit more tactful in rescues if he camps do a gen. Easiest way to punish camping is doing gens. Just my honest advice I hope it helps a bit.
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Give the killer an incentive to leave the hook completely and an actual win condition and all this complaining will stop. All this complaining consists of compensating survivors more because the killer tries to win. It is a fact that the survivors objective is far faster than the killers and so the killer has to take desperate measures to have a chance to win. Imo if they made scourge hook: gift of pain basekit for every hook it would be a great incentive to go for someone else since the hooked survivor will be penalised after being unhooked.
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You do realize that there are very few reliable info perk for Killer....BBQ gives you the aura of survivors but things like PR is not as accurate or even can trigger a scream if they are running calm mind or just let go of the Gen before the hook.
And following scratch marks is not reliable on alot of outdoor maps since the marks can be covered by grass or ground cover.....same with blood drops, there have been times as survivor I ran through areas with tall grass knowing it will hide my blood or in Midwhich where your blood can mix with the environment blood on the map.
You also answered why Gen sounds are not reliable....they are faint and can be drowned out by chase music or the actual noise of the Killers, or players who might have trouble with low levels of sounds
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Easy fix: hook relocation. Still dont know why devs are so ignorant on that topic.
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This, it doesn't have to be a reward per say, at least an objective would be nice. Kicking gens is relatively pointless, however survs can't repair gens when dead.
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There is a reason alot of Pyramid Head players don't use the cage of attonment.... survivors can set up someone on the other side of the map and another one will cause the chase to go towards the cage...the Killer will either break chase and the Survivor is rescued or continue the chase the cage teleports and the Survivor is rescued.
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Sure.
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Should have made BT and DS basekit (with the latter removing the skill check and making it activate twice, still deactivating in endgame, conspicuous actions and when fully healed) so that tunneling someone out is far more of a time waster than a gain. But I guess the devs still want easy mode for killers since it's supposed to be the power role and maps, perks and items are busted.
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I think he is talking about camping, not tunneling.
To me, the issue with camping is sometimes it is called for other times it is abused. Bubba camping basement with 5 gens up? Fairly un sportsmen like you can easily call that trolling and should be punished. on the other hand, if you are in a close match, gates open, one dead, one on hook and two are alive. Then you should camp the hook. You would be silly not to and would be throwing the game. there are of cause many many scenarios in between tolling/abuse and fair/acceptable camping. Trying to come up with a system that won't completely break the game one way or another is harder than it looks.
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" not fun for the person not getting to actually play the game" This is the common misconception. While hanging on hook you are still playing the game.
Non-participation is one of the threats you face as survivor its expected when you play DBD you can end up in a non-participation scenario. The onus is on your teammates to save you from it regardless of what the killer is doing.
This whole scenario in of itself is independent of camping, but killers may try and exploit this scenario by defending a hook.
This hook defense often pays of better than trying to chase survivors for the whole game. Trying to punish hook defending AKA camping is only one half of the coin. So incentivize chasing but then how do you stop killers from using that power to just tunnel someone out early?
Ok buff defenses to tunneling and chasing but then you get scenario once again making hook defense pay of better than chasing...
and round and round we go with the oscillating perk power creep.
There is already a punishment for camping it leaves the rest of the team free to finish their objective unmolested by the killer. The player on hook is still in play, albeit not the most interactive game.
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" not fun for the person not getting to actually play the game" This is the common misconception. While hanging on hook you are still playing the game.
That's some mental gymnastics. I guess if I'm using the bathroom while logged into a game, then I'm playing the game.
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Yeah. That's the easy solution and it's one they came up with (with the cages of atonement), which makes it more baffling that they've never changed it.
My take is to change it to a time based game instead of an elimination game. Survivors have 'x' amount of time to power the gens. For each hook the gens slow down by a certain percentage. If the killer holds court all survivors die or lose. If it gets to end game (gates opened or even just gens powered) everyone is now exposed and mori-able.
This would benefit survivors because they wouldn't get tunneled or camped because really there would be no advantage to doing that. End game would always be scary, but at least you would last long enough to get there or if not you get to play the game for at least 10 minutes and get to score more than 4,000 blood points.
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If you're hanging on hook you are still actively in game so yeah.
What you are doing outside of game is irrelevant to what gameplay is currently taking place.
You want to discuss is camping bad for the game? go ahead, but that's a different topic from is hanging on hook still gameplay?
Because guess what... it is, that's why you have options to attempt escape and recurring skill checks/struggle mechanics, the game expects you to still be there playing while on hook.
Think about that on your next bathroom break.
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Stopping the timer within a certain distance might help.
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I mean, if you want a preview of how the devs would implement teleporting hooked survivors, just look at Pyramid Head's cage moving functionality. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a cage relocate against a camping Pyramid Head. And I've been playing since before his release with thousands of hours. So no, it really wouldn't work with this dev team.
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Camping and tunneling are legit strategies that should remain as they are...
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As far as I'm aware, BBQ is the only perk that gives you aura reading after a hook, make some more of THOSE perks
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And infinites were a legit strategy also
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Those things are not the same. The infinites were just poor map design...
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ANd camping and tunneling are bad game design.
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Doesn't have to be aura reading. Doesn't even have to be info, although current Pain Res achieves this fairly well, (at least until it's undeserved nerf on tuesday at which point it becomes worse than a failed skillcheck).
You can also have perks that require you to be away from the hook. Devour Hope and Make Your Choice for example. Hell MYC is an anti-camp AND an anti-tunnel, as it encourages you to go after the unhooker instead. It may well be the most healthy killer perk in the game, but I'm sure survivors still whine about it.
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So gen rushing is also bad game design, right?
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You can repeat your mantra every day, it still makes it not better.
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just ######### remove hooks
I'm pretty sure gen time will be 140seconds if that happen lol
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Personally I hate killers who camp the hooks to prevent anyone from coming to save u from one.
It's not fair to the person on the hook for one cause very few survivors actually have the guts to team up with another survivor where one Survivor distracts the killer while the other gets u free of the hook. Sure the one distracting the killer may go down but at least ur being a team player for the survivors and helping get someone off the hook. If I had my way, any killer that was caught camping a hook with a survivor on it for more than 30 to 40 seconds would get half their bloodpoints taken away after the match is over as a penality for doing so.
There should be a penality for camping survivors if u are a killer in a match cause u aren't giving that survivor a fair chance to win the match if u are camping them so people won't want to even try to rescue them. While at the same time, u are letting other people get bloodpoints by finishing the generators cause u aren't stopping them from doing so just to be mean and camp one person while they get to leave the match and u can't.
The point of being the killer in DBD is to stop people from doing generators so they can't get the exit gate open and escape while hooking the survivors 3 times if u can to win. But if u can't do that and are constantly camping one person in a match then u are not playing the game fair and u should get a penality for it. U also shouldn't be playing as a killer if u can't do it the right way where u aren't putting up one person to die and letting everyone else escape while doing so. That is why if a killer does that to me I give them the body blocking penality.
I also hate killers who go after the same survivor till they are hooked 3 times even if the survivor leads them to others they could go after instead.
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