We need a mechanic against hardcore slugging.
Slugging is probably one of the most boring things ever in this game. You stay on the ground and have to wait until the killer decides to finally pick you up after thinking about it for 2 Minutes or until a survivor comes to you and picks you up hoping that the killer doesn't down you the next second again.
I don't even wanna start talking about Nurse and perks that actually make slugging even easier and more annoying.
We need a new mechanic that punishes the killer for leaving you on the ground and A) let's you bleed out or B) just can't find you again.
Here is my idea:
After 50% of the bleed out Meter is already emtpy you have the ability to lick your self up. After reaching 99% of the recovery Bar you start a 5-10 second Animation where the survivor slowly begins to stand up. While this Animation is happening skill checks will apear and all have to be hit (like merciless storm). If the survivor mamanges to hit all skill checks he is injured again with a 10 second Endurence buff.
If the survivor fails the skill check the Animation stops and the progress of the recovery Meter get's back to 50%
Comments
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No they should make a mechanic were if the survivor gets slugged more than 10seconds the killer has to come back and give them a kiss on the forehead and let them escape
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You have plenty of counters. Unbreakable and Boon: Exponential will both let you pick yourself up. You also have the option of getting better at the game and learn how to loop longer so you can be an undesirable target.
Nothing else needs to be done because just like how survivors thing killers should be punished for bad plays, so too should survivors be punished for screwing up.
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I will not even start having a discussion with someone like you.
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Better Idea:
once everyone is slugged in a match and nobody has been picked up (by themselves or from others) for some time AND the killer has not picked anyone up to try and hook them. The bleed out timer accelerates, killing everyone within seconds.
No more pointless slugging but you are not just getting a free unbreakable.
You could even make it so that only the survivor with the most bleed out timer left does not get affected by this, so they can find the hatch. If the killer closes it, their aura gets revealed if they didnt pick themselves up with something (Adrenaline, Unbreakable) so the killer can hook them. If they don't want to hook them they also get an accelerated bleed out timer.
That way the killer's hard work/your mistakes arent rewarded by giving you a free unbreakable and you don't have to subject yourself to needless time waste.
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This.
Slugging is a play, it is a part of the game and sometimes necessary. If slugging happens and the killer just wants to punish people, then this is perfectly fine. It should probably disable if someone has unbreakable or the boon up.
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imo this should also apply if someone has an unused unbreakable if they just do not use it to waste the killer's time because reee slugging.
I can agree that as long as Boon: Exponential exists somewhere on the map the timer should not trgger but as soon as the boon gets stomped the timer starts ticking.
If the killer wants to play that way he should be allowed to, but they should not be allowed to just waste the survivor's time.
Same with survivors crawling into random corners after getting slugged. hooking one of them should reveal the aura of all others. If you chose not to hook them they bleed out faster. If you hook them the timer slows down back to normal again.
Just any version of this system that makes slugging viable while not unessecarily annoying to deal with. Let the survivors bleed out faster if the killer is mean. Let the killer find survivors easier if they decide to make the match last as long as their bleed out timer.
It's kinda complicated to make this system because there is so many different situations and coming up with a solution that adresses all of them without being unfair to either side is complicated.
I think i have a good starting point but situations are unaccounted for.
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The unbreakable flashlight save play. But yeah, that is the right direction.
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Perks should not be counters to unfun playstyles. There is a reason devs are adding base BT for 5s, it's to stop people for having to rely on perks just to be able to play the game, because that also stops people from running other builds. When your solution to this is "just run X perk" well then you are like "run X perk for camping, run Y for tunneling, run Z for slugging" and now you suddenly have 1 spot left for a single perk.
This is why perks should not be the solution to unfun gameplay. Imagine if survivors had some OP ability, that's not even a perk, but an actual action they can do in game, that prevented the killer from doing anything and the only hard counter was a perk. How would you feel if you were told, as a killer, to "just run X or Y" to deal with that?
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If you remove slugging, idk what else to do. I don;t want to be forced to run 4 slowdown. I don't get where you are coming from.
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As if people don't already run 4 slowdown perks. But hey, maybe you should be forced as killer to just sit around doing nothing for 4 minutes as you slowly bleed out until eventually you just die and the game ends for you, as in you can no longer gain BP or do anything, other than watch survivors continue to play the game and win. I think that would be riveting gameplay for killers.
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So in your eyes, you're playing killer, you downed one and hooked him at the edge of the map (left side), you down another in the middle of the map. A gen pops on the right side of the map, you know from BBQ that two people are over on the right side. So in this case, the bad play of the survivors, you shouldn't punish the gens before friends? Like, what?
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I think slugging is a perfectly viable tactic however what I don't think should be allowed is for a killer to slug the whole group, and then just go AFK forcing everyone to wait around until they bleed out if no one has Unbreakable equipped.
Once all four survivors have been slugged a timer should start to countdown and anyone the killer doesn't pick up and hook before the timer runs out can get up from being slugged.
This would make it so people can't hold you hostage and it would give survivors more incentive to try to crawl off and hide, adding value to the Perks Deer Stalker and Tenacity.
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Just hook the damn survivor! If you have 2 people or more downed, you are already winning, you do not need to go slug everybody to death. God damn you people are so petty with your strawman arguments. Like really, so if you don't get a 4k so what? Is a 2k not enough? Is not getting kills that bad? What exactly do you want as killer? Just spawn all survivors on hooks the moment you spawn in the match? Maybe we should remove the exit gates, gens could just be there so survivors have something to do while you go on a murder spree.
Like really, you portray losing as if it's this huge deal, yet even when losing you are still moving, chasing, doing stuff. Survivors can't do anything while slugged or camped or tunneled. They don't earn BP, they don't interact with the killer or other survivors, they have nothing. I think on average survivors in this game spend more time just doing nothing than actually participating in a match at how rampant all this tunneling, camping and slugging has become.
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There's nothing wrong with slugging all four survivors before trying to hook them. Complaining that the killer isn't "being fair" for slugging when you've got Tenacity, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Unbreakable, and Exponential at your disposal if you're worried about it is what's being "Petty".
And seriously, if the killer leaves one person slugged, and is chasing someone else, and the other team members don't get that person back up again, that's on the survivor team, not the killer.
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I'm starting to think you don't have competitive games. It's not about losing, it's about staying in the game. If I don't punish their mistake, then I am giving them a free win. The game is meant to be competitive and fun. Yeah, we aren't going to agree.
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Devs. Please make decisions based on the majority of player experience.
There has been mention and reference to of a recent event that somehow proved that killers needed a buff. Though the event made it seem like the killer was at a major disadvantage, that event was not an example of "typical" player life for a solo queu'er or a duo team.
The truth is that a group of 4 players together is rare compared to other combinations. Televising worst case scenario for a killer of 4 experienced survivors playing together in coms gives us killer mains ammunition for our arguments about how survivors are too good. However, it is using an outlier to make a decision.
Even a team of experienced players who know each other but are not in live voice communication would struggle against an mediocre killer. Case in point.
As a killer main of over 300 hours, I can be asleep at the wheel and:
-be able to 3k
-get 20k+ blood points
and/or
-+1 pip.
Survivors do NOT get the benefit of paying half attention. (Side note: My killer items (scratched mirror, caffeine pills, so forth) are permanent. ALL survivor items have charges.)
On occasion, I will run into that one unicorn squad that gives me a rough game. The unicorn squad is DEFINITELY the exception rather then the rule.
In adding to the said televised travesty of an example of a dbd game.
There are so many people who say, "Killers are okay because survivors have so and so oddball perk" and then they name some sort of non-meta build that isn't used enough to matter.
Yes. I used the term "meta." Those players all ran at least 2 of the 4 meta perks. Why? Because the vast majority of the players I have run across with over 400 hours tend to run at least one of these:
-Borrowed time. Because enough killers camp. Not a lot of argument here, the next patch is basekitting borrowed time for a reason.
-Some exhaustion perk. Usually dead hard. Again, not a lot of argument here, it's being run so much that the devs have decided to nerf it.
With those two perk slots already being taken up, the combination of perks that can be used to counter a play style is reduced by a drastic factor.
The exact math is wrong however it is the concept that is important. The math combination of 2 variables versus 4 variables. If there are 100 perk and survivors can only use 2 perks, the combination is 100 x 100 = 10,000. That SEVERLY limits the possibilities of perk combinations. This is because at 3 perks, the number of combinations is 100 x 100 x 100 = 1,000,000. There difference between 10k vs 1mIt only gets crazier with four perks.
Thoughts.
-a good number of the perks, 50% on the low end, 90% on the high end never see the light of day.
-there are perks that a team would want to have, but not on every single survivor.
Examples:
Kindred. Before the patch when players on hook could not see where the location of other survivors. Post patch, survivors on coms can quickly communicate if someone is headed their way for the unhook without kindred.
Boons. Even post nerf, healing boon is a game changing perk. A survivor team would want a boon blesser. However, boon perks lose value quickly if all 4 survivors are running a boon perk.
-Because you can't double up on perks, the calculation would be something like 100 x 99 x 98. However, the concept is more important then the math equation. The concept being that survivors on paper have many over one million combinations. Survivors in actual play do not have nearly as many options.
-To be fair, killers face the same situation where we are forced to run certain meta perks as well!
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There are perks for that.
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You have perk options to pick yourself up. You can crawl towards teammates to get picked up.
There's many reasons why a killer needs to slug the survivor they just downed.
Nothing needs to be changed.
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You don’t need a perk. Crawl away and have a teammate pick you up. If all four of you are down then your team royally screwed up and you deserve the slug. The only change I would make is for the game to detect that everyone is slugged with no chance at pick up and start a short timer for the killer to hook everyone. If killer doesn’t, the entity takes them like in egc.
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Why, because you’re unreasonable and want to make the game easier for yourself?
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Okay, if you think the solution is to crawl then lets make Tenacity basekit. I mean, surely there isn't a problem with that, right? Considering you told people to just crawl, then let people crawl faster and recover at the same time. It forces killers to actually pick people up, otherwise they risk that survivor crawling towards a teammate and get picked up.
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I wouldn’t be against that. It doesn’t take agency away from the killer, it just makes their choice to slug a little riskier. It would also make versing mobile killers like Nurse, Blight and Billy less frustrating.
I just don’t think the game should coddle players when they’re losing like the OP wants. People should be punished for bad plays.
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Tenacity is basekit, it's called crawling, which you are still able to do while slugged.
Tenacity is simply a perk that increases your crawling speed.
The game has a whole host of mechanisms that interact with or counter a survivor in the dying state. It is a core part of the game. You can hold a button to recover, so that you or another survivor can pick you up. You can crawl to another location to make it easier for another survivor to pick you up or evade the killer, like under a pallet, or even get the hatch. You can equip a host of perks to aid you when in the dying state, such as Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Tenacity, Flip Flop, Boon: Exponential, No Mither, Adrenaline, We're Gonna Live Forever. Additionally the killer also has perks that interact with the dying state, such as Deerstalker and Knock Out.
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"Survivors should be rewarded for going down even though their teammates failed to pick them up."
Uh.
One big problem with that: How will you distinguish intentionally bleeding people to death from being malicious as compared to doing so because either (A) they can't find where the hell the slug went because of big maps/silent slug bug/etc or (B) being in an area where it's literally impossible to hook them?
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It wouldn't be a short timer, it'd have to be a good while. A reason for people to have to wait instead of just DCing because the killer is holding the game hostage.
A killer that was using slugging as a strategy with every intention of picking people up after and hooking them would have ample time to find the survivors, especially with Deer Stalker.
It's not a "reward" for everyone going down because a killer who is actually wanting to play the game is going to hook you afterwords, now you being able to crawl away and hide and prevent them from getting you to a hook is part of the risks of that kind of strategy and that's fine.
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The fact that your shutting someone with good points down shows me you'd rather the devs change the game for you rather then you get better at the game. I can't even.
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I think if killers leave survivors on the ground for too long then they should naturally recover without the use of a perk. Perks should only speed up that process. I've been full slugged from a full bar many times before and its just boring. If after a minute the killer doesn't pick you up then you should be able to begin recovering without needing to use a perk.
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I'd say that after a Survivor has been on the ground in the Dying State for 2 minutes total (the equivalent of being one-hooked), they should be able to insta-kill themself on the ground so they can leave the trial early.
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Probably the best option all things considered.
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A free pick up just because they're downed in an area that can't be hooked is stupid. If no one comes to rescue them, they should bleed out and die.
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"Downed in an area that can't be hooked"
If the killer downs someone in a part of the map where the survivor can wiggle free before getting to a hook is not a "Free pick up".
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This also would be a great solution, and probably the most practical.
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??? That's on the survivor for going down. Why should they get a free pick up when they'd bleed to death otherwise? That is literally intended. Slugging = No hook state and someone else can come pick them up. If they're by themselves and opted to take no perks for getting back up on their own, that is literally their own fault + their teammates' faults for not picking them up.
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You're misunderstanding me then, because you're talking like survivors should never be able to wiggle free while being carried by the killer. Because that is what I was talking about in this exchange.
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Why would the killer pick them up if they're in a hook deadzone lol
I'm talking about the slug getting up on its own would be stupid. OFC if the killer picks them up, they'd wiggle off. So it'd be stupid to pick them up.
The survivor would be left to bleed to death unless someone comes help them.
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The giving up option is a better idea all around, but it would be nice to be able to spit in the eye of people that just leave you all on the ground to wait to bleed out.
Four minutes is a long time when you're just sitting there waiting on everyone to die so you can just move on.
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So have you heard about this brand new thing called "Decisive Strike"?
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If the survivors mess up enough to get 4 man slugged they should lose. I wouldn't mind a mechanic that instantly entity kills all remaining survivors if they manage to all be put into the dying state simultaneously, though, to prevent the killer from doing BM bleedouts or ending the match quicker if there are no hooks.
Its a feast or famine strategy and if you play it well as a survivor you should basically win every time unless the killer is nurse with broken addons.
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Slugging actually has counter play. This is really a non-issue. Whether it's perks or smart survivors it can be countered.
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Just make them get sacrificed by the entity like with the End Game Collapse if they're all slugged and nobody has perks that allows them to pick themselves up.
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If we are going to change the mechanics of the game based on "fun", I am 100% down with that!!
No more slugging cause it's not fun? Done. Deal.
In return, I would like a added mechanic that stops GEN RUSHING. As a Killer, there is nothing FUN about having 3 Gens pop before you've gotten into/finished your first chase. Sure there are perks I can take, sure I can get better, but this is about FUN. So how about this...
"Anytime a generator is completed, the Entity blocks all other generators for (XX) seconds, during which time all generators regress at (XXX) percent".
This would stop survivors from just 99'ing every Gen and then popping them the moment they become unblocked. This would also add some new freedom to killers, who no longer have to use every slot on Gen perks. Gen block, Gen regression, Gen, Gen, Gen, blah, blah, blah.
There is no difference TO ME between Gen Rushing and Tunnel/Camp/Slug. They are both Strategies employed because they are effective routes to complete your objective. BHVR seems fine with adding mechanics to take away the Killer's strats, so fair is fair, lets take from the survivor strats too.
I don't mean for that to sound like salty or us/them, I'm just saying, if BHVR is going to "police" legit strategies, it needs to do it on both sides of the fence.
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Disagree. Slugging is the counter to swf clicker squads.
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Just kill survivors when all four has been slugged, nothing else is needed, at all.
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I would be happy just with the idea of being able to quit without a pennalty ban for leaving, I am the last survivor, killer downs me, goes AFK or stands there waiting for the full timer to expire, I don't even know why the option is not there already, if you are the last survivor and you are bleeding with no option to pick yourself up (no perks that allow you to do so) then why wouldnt you be allowed to just quit without a pennalty ban?
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There is a mechanic against hardcore slugging. Dont swarm the slug. Mostly it is a problem, when all survivors rush in and try to heal instantly with the killer chasing nearby. This is a bad idea, you gve the killer slugging value if you let him chase and protect the slug at the same time. In these situations it is normally the survivors fault why slugging is useful. Go in when he picks up or just do gens, then it is not worth slugging
If you talk about complete slugging builds with Third Seal and Knockout etc, then let him have it. Try to break it at some point, this is a difficult thing to do but can be done. But I dont think that this is a big problem that needs to be adressed. Kinda same like mirror myers, rare thing, can be hard, can be countered. Nothing ro worry about
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they're not wrong tho xD
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A similar one, since in your case the killer could be looking for the survivor but they might be crawling around to avoid being hooked:
If a survivor in the Dying State has 3 crows circling above their head, they can hold down a button to speed up the bleed out timer. (3 crows need 100 seconds to spawn, so it's very similar to your proposed 2 minutes)
That way the killer knows where the survivor is, and they have a last chance to hook them before they bleed out.
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This just sounds like soul guard with extra steps
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They should just give survivors an Unalive Yourself option.
My first match of this update, an Artist slugged my whole team and left them to bleed out. Luckily the match was salvageable, but for the really crappy matches where it's clear it's gonna be 5 minutes of laying on the floor, I'd rather they give us the option to leave the match without penalty and give the killer a crumb of BP for our death. If only to let us move the hell on to another match.
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