Legion and Plague Shouldn't have access to Thanatophobia
Like the title suggests, killers whose powers revolve around them being able to easily injure many survivors constantly shouldn't benefit from thanatophobia. It should still trigger from M1 hits, but allowing it to trigger off of M2 free real estate health states, is extremely frustrating. And with the buff to the perk in the next patch it will only make frustrating games even worse. I am a sure other people have experienced how quickly in SoloQ, your teammates give up when they see the dreaded thana light up against either of these two killers.
Comments
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Neither of those things are free. Plague has to find and infect survivors which takes time, legion is on a timer to get health states and is easily countered by thinking survivors who split up. Arbitrarily restricting perks is just unintuitive and unnecessary.
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Legion and plague no longer get thana, but swf is restricted to a maximum of 2 and survivors can only have 1 second chance perk
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stop
with
the
"what about"-ism
it is not helpful
it does not debunk any argument
it itself is not an argument
it is a logical fallacy
swf has nothing to do with thana on those 2 killers
also to be on topic, imo thana should not have gotten buffed. increasing gen times already makes all gen slowdown and gen regression perks better by increasing values and numbers.
should simply not have gotten buffed. especially since forever legion and plague are now a thing :)
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So... block Thana from being used on the only 2 killers who can actually use it effectively?
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Its not a "whataboutism" its a would you press the button scenario
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"Artist shouldn't have access to Dead Man's Switch!"
"Leatherface shouldn't have access to Insidious!"
"Freddy shouldn't have access to Pop Goes the Weasel!"
"Spirit shouldn't have access to Stridor!"
"Pinhead shouldn't have access to Hoarder!"
"Doctor shouldn't have access to Distressing!"
... and so on and so on and so on, ad nauseum.
It is GOOD that some perks work better on some killers than others. It means that killer perk lists actually vary it up. Unlike the Survivor Meta of "always take 4 of the 6 best perks every game, against every killer, and do extremely well every time"
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Survivors shouldn't have access to perks
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I'd rather not prevent killers from using perks that synergize well with their power. Otherwise we get the situation where every killer is running the same exact perks.
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I doubt he was serious about it.
It's just he saw stupid idea, so he said another stupid idea for other side to make it fair. Balanced...
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Youre not supposed to get a permanent 4stack effect from Thana.
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For the people in here calling this a stupid idea. Would you rather they nerf Legion baseline, or adjust some of the addons or perks that are making his kill rate sky rocket right now.
Just curious
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i d rather nerf thanatophobia lol
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You got any data to back up this claim?
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I don't think the perk is good enough for 99% of killers for it to be nerfed. Killers like Legion and Plague take it to an extreme level.
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Why are you assuming that the devs didn't know Thanatophobia would be a good perk for Plague and Legion?
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Variety is cool, and I don’t have a problem with most of what you just listed, but DMS Artist is absolutely broken and Insidious is just a dumb perk in general, it should just be reworked into something else imo so killers other than basement bubba might actually want to use it.
As for thana, I don’t think it should’ve been buffed, or at least not in the way it was. If their goal was to make it more appealing on some of the other killers, they could’ve increased the penalties even more for 1-2 injured survivors, but decreased it at 4 (aka each injure isn’t worth the same % of penalty) to make it slightly less boring on plague/legion but better on almost everyone else.
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Yeah you are. The slowdown you get from 1-2 stacks is minimal.
Now if they reworked it so most of the slowdown came from those first 1-2 stacks and less for the 3rd and 4th, that'd be a different story.
Also that's what I thought they were going to do when I saw Thana on the list of perks they were changing.
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I'd like to know exactly where this claim was confirmed
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Why do you need a claim when we have common sense.
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We wouldn't have that issue with survivors if they had some form of passive that would pair really well with certain perks.
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"Why would you need facts when my feels are just so strong?"
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Common sense isn't based on touch, but sight.
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Yeah anecdotal evidence and feels don't matter in reality at all. Your perspective is always going to be biased and skewed, numbers simply are.
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How about we apply some science to see if "anecdotal evidence" doesn't matter. If they don't nerf nurse in the next year, you are right. If they do, I am.
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"common sense"
according to the comments i am reading, everyone writing here is either dumb or insane
also here is a random totally unrelated logical fallacy:
Appeal to Common Sense
Description: Asserting that your conclusion or facts are just “common sense” when, in fact, they are not. We must argue as to why we believe something is common sense if there is any doubt that the belief is not common, rather than just asserting that it is. This is a more specific version of alleged certainty.
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That's not what common sense is, you just copy pasted some philosophical gibberish. If your facts or beliefs aren't accurate then it isn't common sense to begin with.
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This was one of the worst parts of the ptb crazy they let it go through
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no it is a logical fallacy, that is a thing you should never use when you try to argue a point because they are not valid arguments :)
it is not gibberish but basics of discussing and argumenting any point with actual arguments.
facts are:
- plague and legion can use thana very well
- these 2 killers might cause problems while using thana because they can use it well
your point/arguments are:
- thana on legion and plague is a problem <- start of discussion, an opinion
- simply take away their ability to use a perk
- nerf their base kit ability or nerf add-ons/perks (literally my point, nerf thana if thana is the problem)
- legion's kill rate is skyrocketing <- where is the info from?
other people say (me included):
- nerf thana/rework it/do not buff it
- removing the ability to pick perks that synergize with killer powers will lead to every killer picking the same stuff much like survivor
- they need to work for it but less than others
- other killers can use other perks well as well and it is not a problem there <- this is also a logical fallacy
- restricting perks is unintuitive
- it is simply not a problem <- also an opinion
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I don't think common sense is a logical fallacy, I guess we can just disagree there. I think it is also fair to assume the developers designed thana to not be turned on for 100% of the match at 4 stacks. That's the only point I was applying common sense to.
I didn't say to take away the perk from them, I don't think it should trigger off of their powers. I don't know where you saw me wanting their base power to be nerfed. Before the patch it was normal to 4k escape against just about every legion, the opposite is now the case (my experiences). I guess you will have to take my word for it, or wait until they release kill rates.
The main point I am trying to make is that I don't think the problem is the perk itself, but the interaction between the killer's powers and the perk. There are plenty of people that agree many perks shouldn't work with nurses blink hits, it isn't that much of a leap to say the same for legion. Let's not forget that sloppy butcher doesn't even apply to legions m2 hits. Restricting perks already happens, if it's unintuitive, you should take that up with the developers.
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As with the others, I disagree with your solution for thana. Your solution to the perk will either outright just kill the already limited use of it or encourage ppl using m1s over their power which leads to boring play. Already the base kit buffs to the killer are going to encourage that type of playstyles meaning you see less and less of some killers(like demo) even using their powers to attack ppl. Either way I rather they rework thana make it more useful to other killers outside the two that can use it well. As someone said I think they should make it where you to get more value of it if one or two players are injured than having most of its value locked behind having all 4 survivors injured. The only reason you see legion and plague use it is that they are the only ones who can get any type of value from the perk. You never see a babba, artist, freddy, etc use the perk because they cant keep all 4 ppl injured.
Also, you bring up nurse and people being ok for perks not working with her blink. Well, Nurse isn't a normal killer... Her power is kinda broke alot of loops in the game and you cant loop her like other killers and has really overpowered addons that make her super hard to play against. She is an S rank killer and one of the most suppressive killers in the game so nerfing her that way would help make her fairer to go against. Legion and Plague are by no means in the same situation as nurse so it's not that fair of a comparison.
At the end of the day, I do agree the new thana will most likely cause problems for players who see legions and plagues and most likely will need to be revisited by the devs down the line but the way you want to nerf it isn't the way imo. It is better to rework the perk so it can be as useful on other killers but not over-suppressive on just two killers that aren't even near the top of the tier lists in power.
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I agree. Its a slippery slope if they started doing such restrictions. The second BHVR implements something like this, after the first time its going to be what 90% of what this forum becomes.
"The Artist or Freddy shouldn't have access to Dead Man's Switch" or "bubba shouldn't be able to use insidious" ect, ect, ect....
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Like I said, they already restrict perks for many killers, even legion. And we both agree the perk combo with these killers is problematic now and even more so after the patch. If you change thana to be like people are suggesting in this thread, you are making it even more problematic for legion and plague. The issue is not the perk, it is the interaction with these powers. Most killers can't reliably take health states and keep people injured like these two killers. It is ridiculously easy to have all 4 people injured in a game as these two killers, and I think it is an oversight to continue to allow their powers to trigger thana.
It's crazy to me that just about everyone in this thread acknowledges that it is a problematic interaction, and everything you have proposed so far, would make it worse.
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There are literally already restrictions in the game when it comes to perks working with powers.
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yea but thats not the case at all since legion feral frenzy reading aura is ridiculously huge and majority of the time survivor are within 20-30 meters from each other
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thats because killers have specials ability to go with the perk while us survivor been using the same mechanics for the past 6 years.
like im begging for a new emote atleast
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this is what im saying. us survivors been using the same mechanics while killers get specials ability's so a passive will do great for survivors
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If you're talking what does and what doesn't activate the perk, yes that's one thing. Certain perks on both sides have scenarios like that. Restrictions or certain criteria for a perk to work isn't what I meant. What your title implies is not allowing certain killers to use certain perks. That's what my comment was in regards to, and that would be a slippery slope. But ok, you meant restrictions, not making a perk accessible to certain killers.
Now if you're talking about restrictions like what type of attack gives thana a stack, I'd rather they just tweak the % of what the perk does if its too op (I feel like they went a bit crazy with it, this buff), but the way its activated is fine in that case. But I agree with what someone said, it's easy for legion to keep all 4 survivors injured, if they're just sticking together, but some teams won't do that. Or get them to wiff and end their frenzy. It takes Plague some time to get someone injured via her puke.
So aside from the %'s being a bit high, I think them getting full advantage of always having 4 stacks at all times is very countable.
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Luckily for survivors, most maps are also huge and provide ample space to run away as soon as they see a mending status. Killer instinct is useful, but not a catchall for a survivor that knows how to count to ten and make space between them and the legion.
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What in the name of Christ does legion have to do with nurse?
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Most of the community right now wants nurse nerfed based on anecdotal evidence.
The numbers or as some like to call "the statistics" of nurse show her doing not so great.
If BHVR were to nerf nurse, then it would prove that anecdotal evidence matters.
Does that make sense? Please let me know if I should explain further.
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Thana should be reworked in the way that gen penalty would not be linear anymore with the number of injured survivors
- more impactful at 1-2 stacks (more killers could use it with more efficiency)
- less impactful at 4 stacks because several obvious killers have too much & easy value from thana during the whole round
I don't understand why devs never tried this simple and logical way of thinking
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No, I just don't want more restrictions on perks on how they proc or work. Sloppy and Jolt are perks like that and it limits them greatly where a lot of killers cant use them all that great. If the devs follow your line of thought more and more perks be like sloppy and jolt and we just see every killer turn into m1 killers which are some of the most boring killers in the game imo. If they did do what you say and made thana only proc with m1s then that perk might as well be dead and be deleted in the game since no one would want to use it. How many sloppy do you see outside new player lobbies? I know a lot of ppl want Jolt to change so it procs with both m1s and powers since it would make it ten times more useful and be used more. Shoot in the recent past we have seen the devs remove the m1 restrictions from perks like Blood Favor and the recent buff to Dark Devotion. Adding restrictions doesn't fix things, it's just a band-aid fix and makes things wrost. That's why I say rework thana and not just add an m1 restriction on it.
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if you change it to 10% per each injured survivor and also activate for each dead survivors, probably yeah
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Then please come back when nurse got nerfed someday, definitely not today though.
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I disagree, every perk should be viable on all killers, and for that to be true you need to take into account that killer. I would like to see perks be molded to fit killers better, I don't think there is anything wrong with making perks stronger or weaker depending on what killer is using it.
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I don't understand what you saying since I basically want the same thing but adding m1 restrictions doesn't accomplish that at all. If you made thana only work on m1 you either see two things happen. A) No one will run the perk at all and then the perk is useless and might as well not be in the game or B) you see killers who have powers to injure choose not to use it since they cant get value from perks like Jolt and Sloppy. Either way, it's clear we not going to change each other minds so I'm just going to say I agree to disagree and move on with my life. Just know this if you start adding m1 restrictions to perks like Thana you see more perks like that and it will make the game even more boring so if that is what you want, boring m1 killers every match, then more power to you then. Have a blessed day.
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We disagree but we might be able to find common ground. Have you played against a legion running thana? Do you think it's a fun experience?
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But it is pointless, does not anything to the topic. Start a separate forum thread for your suggestion.
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It fits, hes saying Legion and Plague games are going to be abysmal after the patch. That's is exactly the reason I started this thread, I don't think the problem is thana though, I think it's these two killers.
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The buff was 2% can we stop with the catastrophizing.
Legion and Plague also aren't strong enough killers where a few extra seconds will make them ridiculous, same as before.
The perk wasn't amazing before and 2% isn't going to make it so.
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