Heal teching is an exploit and nobody is talking about it
First off, when a survivor is healing a downed survivor, their hitbox contorts making it hard to hit that survivor. But you should also be able to pick up the survivor while they are being healed, or at the very least you should.
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It may not have been intended at first, but imo, the fact that it has become a "team helping" strategy akin to body blocking is a favorable outcome, as survivors should have some tools that help their teammates by disrupting the killer's intentions.
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The first part is a problem, but the second feels intended because it comes up with interactions in general. You can't kick a gen while a survivor is on it either.
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They just need to make a short animation of the killer pushing the survivor aside (or even smacking them with their weapon) which goes right into them picking up the downed survivor. Basically give the situation a locker grab type of response.
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labeling arbutrary things an exploit is the new "calling anything and everything toxic" or "calling anything and everything tunneling" XD
I can't tell you how many downed survivors got to escape because of a heal tech, but it's not many. Not SUPER rare, but maybe 1-3 times a month? Personally, I've never felt it was an exploit.
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There's one rather niche situation that requires some form coordination where "heal teching" actually does anything. Otherwise the survivor(s) "heal teching" can just be hit and the survivor when picked up can just be instantly downed. It only does anything if gates are open and the survivor is downed close to the open gate. And honestly the situation where you have 3-4 survivors alive and a gate open means the killer had messed up so I don't see it being an issue.
Hitboxes in the game need work and I do agree that the survivor hitbox not matching the where the survivor visually is while healing is a problem that should be fixed.
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I think its intended, you cant interact with anything if the Survivors are interacting with it, you cant kick a gen being worked on, you cant break a pallet being vaulted and you cant interact with Survivors if another one is healing them.
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But it's not a team strategy. It's only useful after the killer earned a kill at an exit gate.
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this
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Killers cannot perform interactions to an object/survivor if a survivor is interacting with that item, this is an intentional design (healing, saboing, gens) and is not an exploit.
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I was just thinking about this last night. The recent changes make me think that they will get to it eventually.
It would really suck if they went the lazy route and called the exploit a feature.
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Is the Survivor hooked and in the dying animation when you down them at the Exit Gates? If no then the Killer has not earned a kill yet.
I can argue the Survivor has earned an escape since he was downed at the Exit Gates opened after all gens were completed but since he isnt in the escaping animation he hasnt earned anything yet.
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But with that logic, shouldn't you also be able to grab the survivor doing the healing? You can grab during sabos and gens, so if you can't hit the downed survivor it should logically transition into a grab. Do you get what I mean or am I not explaining this well?
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There is counter-play to heal tech depending on how far the downed survivor is from the exit gate. If there are multiple survivors ready to heal tech, hit the survivors that aren't healing first, people being healed cannot move. If you hit the survivor healing one by one you will allow that person to crawl incrementally between heals. If it is just one person healing very close to the exit, allow them to finish healing that person if you can wedge yourself between the downed individual and the exit, swing as soon as they get up, and auto pick up.
I am not going to say this is/isn't an exploit because it very well could be changed in the future, but for now they have no plans of banning you for doing it.
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No you're explaining it well. Healing is the big exception on interruptable survivor actions. It makes more sense that heal teching exists than that you can't interrupt and grab healing survivors.
Though I don't think that would really change much because interrupting is done with m1/attack while picking up is done with space/interact. Survivors would just time it right so that instead of yoinking them off of a survivor you'd just smack them and healing the downed survivor in a gate would in the end yield the same results.
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Can anyone here even demonstrate this problem? Do you have a video?
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Nobody is talking about it because it is not an exploit.
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I found it.
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You didn't earn that kill until you're hooking them on their death hook. Downing them doesn't earn you that kill. If they can get heal teched out of the gate, that kill was likely going out the door. A heal tech out the gate is the equivalent of a flashlight save, only another survivor had to risk getting hit and possibly downed for it.
Now if there was a bug that caused a survivor healing a downed teammate to not have a hit box, allowing them to keep heal teching them everytime you tried to pick them up, allowing the survivor to keep crawling out, then that would be an exploit.
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That's no exploit. That's just how interactions work. If a survivor is interacting with something, the killer won't be able to and vice versa.
They actually had to make an exception for resetting pallets with Any Means Necessary.
The hitbox thing is just high-quality coding /s. You just need to aim at their butt instead of torso. That will hit them even if they let go of the heal.
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Killer should take number 1 priority in this situation, if a survivor is healing it should cancel the heal and pick up the survivor or at the least force a grab.
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Haven't seen killer ever grap someone saboing well nobody sabos unless killer carries another survivor.
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You can't perform an interaction while another player is as well. Whoever interacted with the object/player first takes priority.
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the heal tech makes the gate plays safer because if someone failed a bodyblock until the gate they can heal tech and i see how this is frustrating, i also think that we should be able to push the healers away and pickup.
But i also think that killers should get the prompt to hook when someone is saboing, wich doesnt happen, survivors can sabotage the hook from the back of the hooking side and you need to "detour" to hit him then come back to hook. Its kinda broken too but if we remove this tech, sabotage would be even more garbage
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"The killer messed up [by having 3 or 4 survivors alive at the end of the match]"
Tunnel harder. Got it.
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You mean, Gen Teching!
🙃
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Fixing it wouldn't really hurt much tbh
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Which they would have a severe lack off otherwise...
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Tbh if you're downed the killer should be able to pick you up, not simply watch and wait politely
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I'd call healing a downed survivor so the killer cannot pick them up an exploit (or them exploiting an intended game mechanic), their hotbox contorting is just weird.
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So yet one less counter for survivors to get each other out during endgame?
Killers have a fair chance of getting 4 kills, why on earth should survivors not have a fair chance of getting a 4 man escape? This is really getting ridiculous.
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Survivors have fair chance of 4 man escape without this negligible "intended feature" tbh.
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I don't think it is an exploit. Somehow people have been using it more.
I'd say exploit is something like survivors can reduce fall down stagger by doing gestures (1,2).
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The hitbox doesn't contort, it gets left behind. When a survivor starts healing their ally, they take a step forward and bend over, but their hitbox stays upright, where they were when they started it.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Imagine if the developers decided that Survivors can no longer crawl out of the gate. That would fix the problem.
The reality is that there are already too many things survivors can do to deny kills. Looking at the developer notes they say the game needs more kills not fewer kills. Therefore maybe we should "fix" heal tech by making it so survivors can't leave the trial if they are on the ground - except through the hatch.
To make things fair we should allow survivors to open a hatch if they carrying a non broken key while crawling.
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Imagine if the Survivors had shotguns and could get rid of the Killer...
Developers said they want more kills, thats why they are giving a huge chunk of base buffs to Killers and massive nerf to almost every perk except OTR and Lightweight and if the Survivors are doing this and getting away its because you didnt earn the kill period, down them before they get that far into the opened Exit Gates and you wont have this problem, better yet, down them before the gates get powered.
The fact Killers cant interact with stuff the Survivors are already interacting with is a game mechanic that has been since forever its not an exploit and probably intended.
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XD
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The killer does have a weapon. Hit the survivor healing. If they're too close to the exit gate, they escape, but nobody playing killer will just watch and wait.
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"Developers said they want more kills, thats why they are giving a huge chunk of base buffs to Killers and massive nerf to almost every perk except OTR and Lightweight"
The problem with this thought is that the Gen defense perks are absolutely destroyed. Kicking a generator doesn't make any sense unless you have some "end game" scenario where one person is dead, one person is down/hooked and you are chasing another survivor. At that point everyone is "busy" and no one can take a moment to kick a generator. The only problem is that base kit regression is 1/4th of survivor repair - which is mathematically backwards.
If we look back at patch : 1.5.3 we can see that hook timers were increased to make it take 30 seconds longer for survivors to die on a hook. This means the killer objective was increased by 15 seconds for each hook state. As a result survivors started using this time to focus on generators above rescuing other survivors.
If you consider a game is supposed to be 2 kills (with no tunneling) that works out to everyone hooked at least once and two survivors hooked three times. That's a minimum of +90 seconds for survivors to complete their objectives (120 seconds in a worst case scenario). Killers are getting +50 seconds back this patch but overall chases are longer than generators take to complete (especially early game when all the pallets are up and killers need to "build up".
How long does a chase take? Generally speaking you have 20 seconds to walk over to start a chase. If they were AFK until being attacked it would take you 20 seconds to chase after them in a straight line using no pallets or map features. The second hit to down them with your weapon will require another 3 seconds (already factored into the other chase). Then you need anywhere between 10-15 seconds to pick them up and hook them. Let's add all that up : 20+20+3+10= 53 seconds. That leaves you with 17 seconds to travel across map and pop a generator before it gets completed. See the problem?
Depending on the survivor's skill and the number of available pallets they can stall each hit phase by anywhere between 10-30 seconds. If the time now becomes 20+20+3+10+20 that comes out to 73 seconds. Now you have 7 seconds to walk across map and stop two survivors simultaneously on different generators.
The devs have an expectation that the game favors the killer once the gens are all powered. That might have been the case in the early days where NOED wasn't a totem and lasted forever with a 9% speed boost.
At the very least we could have seen a change to the bloodwarden perk where that perk specifically got changed to include a change to the game where crawling survivors cannot leave the trial.
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It is neither a technique nor an exploit.
It is just BHVR's technical expertise.
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I love this is being called an exploit with all the justification of "cuz I feel like it".
I don't know why some people want a game with no meaningful interaction in it and it's not an exploit you just can't interact with an object the same time a survivor is.
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Honestly, its grasping for straws IMO. A killer loses a hook to this out the gate from time to time. How often is it really happening though? We're talking a scenario where if multiple survivors are at the open gate right next to the exit, and they have to be close for this to work, the match was over anyways. At least the prospect for a 4k. But this is one of those things, its super frustrating so it weights heavier in their heads I guess as a kill just slipped through their fingers, so it starts being called an exploit to justify it.
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Nice job leaving out that in patch 1.5.3 generator times increased by 10 seconds, they already got 50 seconds back.
This time generators are being increased while hook timers are staying the same.
Very smart, well thought out post.
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not entirely true: if someone is sabo your hook you can directly grab the survivor who performed that action, same if they are working on a gen
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I don't know. I feel like this has very little success against me lately because the survivors healing are looking to move as soon as they're hit, so any type of sudden movement on my part can potentially stop them for a second and with me already mashing pick up, I get that downed person and potentially more because the others are still full health and thus try to body block.
STBFL also comes in clutch for this situation, as does Unrelenting if you're being a cheeky bastard and running a lowered cooldown build.
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Like others said, that would make CJ teching for a flashlight save an exploit as well because you tried to break the pallet but you couldn't because it was being interacted with.
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everything is called a tech/toxic/exploit these days
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When you are talking about grabbing during sabos and gens (which also applies to window and pallet vaults, cleansing totems, etc.), the survivor is interacting with an inanimate object.
When a survivor is healing another survivor, it's an interaction with a animate object.
Two different contexts, two different outcomes.
Post edited by Pizzaman on1 -
Everything is an exploit to some people these days.
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It does seem a bit silly a big, threatening killer can't pick up a downed survivor just because another survivor is healing them. Besides, if the killer wants to pick them up it isn't like there isn't counterplay with a flashlight or bodyblocking - often being a bad idea
I don't think it's bad to talk about this stuff, there's a lot of minor things in the game like this that people never discuss
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Not the same thing, Killers cant interact with an object being interacted by a Survivor, if the Survivor is fixing a gen you cant kick it, if he is sabotaging a hook you cant hook, if healing a downed Survivor you cant lift it, you are talking about the player doing the action not about the object being interacted with, Killers can interact with a Survivor doing said actions, you can grab/attack a Survivor fixing, sabotaging, healing, vaulting, entering a locker, jumping into hatch etc. In this case downed Survivors work as an object so Killers cant lift them.
This also goes the other way around, you cant vault a pallet if its being kicked, sabotage a hook if its already being hooked and get into the hatch if the close animation is already starting.
The game follows a very simple rule, first come first served, whoever starts interacting with an object first is the one who will take priority and stop the other side from using it, the only exception is Any Means Necessary pallet reset which can be interrupted by breaking the pallet which makes sense for balance reasons or the perk would be completely busted.
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