Nurse this, Nurse that...
Is anyone else getting sick of these Nurse discussions?
We get it! Omega Blink is dumb, never should've returned, and Range should be gutted. Everyone knows this. You're doing nothing but preaching to the choir under the guise of spreading awareness or calling for change; everyone knows already.
We know Omega Blink is dumb. We know Blight's Alch Ring/C33 is dumb. We also know facecamping is a problem that will only get worse. I am genuinely annoyed that I'm constantly being told that the sky is blue!
While we're at it, can I take a moment to point out some hypocrisy?
Before Spirit was nerfed: "Nerf Spirit! At least Nurse takes skill!"
Now: "Nurse is OP and takes no skill."
Really? Just really guys? Stop using skill as an argument if you're not going to remain consistent with it. I bet most of you are the ones who genuinely thought Wraith needed a basekit nerf instead of just All-Seeing.
And yes, she does take skill; she's not the hardest to master, but she's not Pre-Nerf Freddy that you just pick up and win half-asleep. If she didn't, she would have a much higher kill and pick rate. And yes, she does have counterplay. The problem is that her add-ons (a.k.a Range) *nullify it, much like Spirit with MDR.
*I should mention that certain maps are also death sentences such as Gideon but others are a nightmare such as Lerry's. Double Edged sword there.
Comments
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could "we" please stop with this daily nurse thread ? it's getting old
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Before the Spirit nerf, 100% facing a Spirit is a down, no matter Spirit's skill. While Nurse, you can pray its a newbie Nurse.
Nurse is pretty much equivalent to Dead hard on survivor. Bad Nurse cant do anything, bad DH user is a waste of perk slot. When the players mastered them, there is nothing can counter.
I really think the only thing Nurse should be changed is Blink attack is special attack, so any debuff effect doesnt work on her.
I think range addons are not matter in chase to be changed. You cant escape a Nurse at 12m distance, either she can blink 24m or 30m
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Kinda. I don't get why people didn't complain about her when she was nerfed in 2019 and complaints go on after 3 years.
Killers that 'were' viable or decent like Old Deathslinger, Hillbilly, Freddy and "buffed" Wraith are just gone. Spirit might be included too.
Also this bad "MMR" matchmaking encourages playing strong killers and people ignore other problems and think Nurse is the only problem in DbD.
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1. I agree Nurse's attacks should be Special Attacks, but be aware there are... technical problems with that because of her age, despite her recoding (i can elaborate if you want)
2. Her range is 20m on the first blink, 12m on the second. Range ups the 1st blink from 20 to 24/26/30m. The 2nd will always be 12m. (Edit: I think I misread your statement as saying her range was 12m. I'm blind ;_; )
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Honestly I could say it's baffling when meh killers getting a nerf or two while bubba and nurse being untouched lol
shes fine tho
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Problem with making Blink Attack a Special Attack: Blink Grabs.
And you would be like "Well, Blink Grabs might be stupid".
Well, there's "From the Void she kills" Achievement which requires Blink Grab after 3 Blinks.
About omega-speed-Blink Nurse: The reasoning why it works is because of Nurse having maximum "Blink traversal" duration.
And where it matters? Looking down to short-Blink. I think we all know that it takes about 2s of Nurse's Blink to do short Blink. Which is where the "Blink traversal" duration kicks in. Now add range add-ons into it. If you make "Blink traversal" longer based on range, it would indirectly affect those short-Blinks. Unless you change something around those, range add-ons will stay in a game for a long time.
Post edited by Leguś on0 -
I'm surprised it wasn't changed yet.
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I didn’t see this comment when we had 4-5 daily discussions about dh
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With a 75% pick rate, there was no way to stop people from talking about DH.
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Well daily DH threads worked out, however old they were getting. I
It's a discussion forum and people discuss whatever DbD subject they like. It doesn't mean you have to like it too.
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Touche I didn't see these comments either during old hex ruin when there were a daily of 6-12 discussions complaining. Usually when something is literally seen in almost every game that usually means it's broken op wouldn't you say lol. Unless you think the 75% pick rate was people doing it on their own goodwill on not to use the most powerful perks in the game? Old ruin itself had an 80% pick rate and was in every game similar to how dead hard is now no perk should dominate every match like that anymore. Sadly dead hard is actually worse since there is more survivors than killers, so if you think about it dead hards pick rate is absolutely atrocious since dbd player count wasn't even that high during old ruin lol.
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"Worked out" is superstition.
The devs have used their statistics to get accurate numbers.
These same numbers give the Nurse a low pick rate and the lowest kill rate. (Granted, we've got Sadako since ...)
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That could be said for literally every recurring thread talked about 400 million times a day for years (SWF, DS, Exhaustion Perks...)
"Please stop talking about the things I disagree with so we can only talk about what is right for me"
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Nurse is a product of her time. Back when hiding and juking was DBD's core gameplay for Survivor, not looping.
History lesson for you : Back before patch 1.4.0 Looping was nowhere near as powerful as it is today. In Patch 1.4.0 the developers re-sized the Survivors hit boxes to be smaller, in order to help Survivors not get hit out in the open so easy, and to help compensate for latency issues. This had an unintentional effect, as Survivors found out they could now hug objects much tighter than before. This, in turn, meant they could run around objects in tighter, and therefore, faster circles than Killers could. Before this, you could get MAYBE one Loop out of a Pallet. Instead of the usual 2-3 now, before having to drop it. Thus, Looping as it is known today was born. This, by all accounts, makes Looping an Exploit as it fits the definition of video game exploits.
See Link here -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit
Survivors, still reeling from the loss of true Infinites, took to this like fish to water. The developers planned to fix it at first, but quickly decided to leave it in the game and try to balance around it due to pressure from their Survivor player base. The majority player base of Survivor Mains just couldn't win without having something that was blatantly game breaking to abuse. Most Survivors then told the biggest lie in the games history : "We want to be chased all game! That's what's fun!" In order to protect this new exploit. The developers caved, and have been struggling to re-balance the game for its inclusion ever since.
Killers were simply ill-equipped to deal with Looping and Stealth. This is why Killers now have a PLETHORA of aura reading perks, add ons, powers, and abilities. The developers gave the Survivors what they wanted, to be chased all game and let them have their loops. They are simply trying to give both sides what they want. Killers the power to be able to stand up to Looping, Survivors the game play they wanted. Though truth is, neither side is very happy.
In short : Killers are getting the balance they wanted (I say getting cause they still aren't there yet). However, not the game play they want.
Survivors are got the game play they wanted, but not the balance they want (as in being OP as hell).
Throughout the History of DBD the balance of the game has been nothing but the Survivors bunny hoping from one broken thing to abuse to the next. Infinites, Looping, Instant-Blind Flashlights, Pre-nerf Brand New Parts (The first nerf wasn't enough, and the second wasn't either. Only after the third and most recent nerf is BNP balanced), and finally Gen Rushing. Killers had only one truly game breaking exploit they abused the crap out of that lasted for any decent amount of time, and that was Machine Gun Build.
Even now, survivors are STILL abusing a plethora of things that break the game's balance. Most noteworthy being SWF on voice comms.
The reason Nurse MAY be overpowered is all thanks to Survivors. I know this makes me sound like a bias Killer Main, but it's the truth. The point is the developers changed the way the game is played around an exploit. One that has been GAME BREAKING from the start. It's been nothing but one game breaking exploit to the next for Survivors, and Killers being pigeon holed into strict metas to compensate. Now the game is getting balanced around Looping, and only looping... Yeah, Nurse may be OP soon enough. Problem is, the other Killers are still WOEFULLY unable to cope with Looping as a whole. Then you add in Hyper coordinated SWF, Nurse is the only one who can stand up to them.
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What you're saying here is, because of the 0,5% of the player base who concentrate the following conditions: FUll SWF, competitive, sweaty tryhard experienced players with many hours using meta perks, then the rest of the playerbase, the vast majority of survivor players have to be at a tremendous disadvantage and just never have a fair winning chance. Forget about it if you're with randoms against a veteran Nurse. Nurse is broken and absurd, but she's fine because a ridiculous minority can beat her.
It's just such a dumb flawed logic that people like you use, and there's only one factor that you mentioned yourself : Entitlement.
Because, yes indeed, survivors were the dominating role and the big guy back in 2016 and 2017. Very early stages of the game, killers got stomped left and right. But this has been not the case for several years now. But because during the early years killers got bullied and stomped and made fun of so much, this myth about survivors being OP has remained for all this time.
It just isn't true anymore for a long time. Killers have been very strong (experienced ones, anyway, because in 1vs4 games the person playing alone has always been the one to have to tryhard at first to get good, that's obvious) for a very long while now. The only thing that remains now as a powerhouse are those very sweaty tryhard meta SWF groups. And those will mostly remain the same, as always, while, also as always, solo Q gets shat on, bullied, stomped and trashed patch after patch after patch. I'm personally sick of it.
I've been a solo Q player since 2016. Occasionally I have been in SWF and mostly a duo, but 70% of my time has been solo Q. Because of this I'm probably a lot better than your average SWF player because I have been forced to carry randoms who are clueless for years. I enjoy killers that take skill and are fair to go against (My favourite killer to fight is Huntress, I love playing against her, because I feel like it's fair) when, having an equal chance at it, if I'm better I can come on top, and if I'm worse I will go down anyway. Nurse completely negates all of it. I'm good against Nurses, and can back it up ( unlike most people trash talking on this forum, trying to lecture others about how to get good against Nurses, when they probably can't last 20 seconds against a God tier one ) but if the Nurse is very experienced, and this is not hard to achieve, she negates most of the things you can do, and she's basically playing against herself : If she makes no mistakes, she wins, and your input doesn't matter. Even maps that are "bad" for her (the game) aren't a problem for the really sweaty tryhard Nurses. She's basically cheat mode once you know how to play her.
The only people who defend her are people who want to stomp everyone all the time not through skill, but through overpowered mechanics that allow you to negate every counterplay other than just coordinated gen rushing and doing all gens in 3 minutes through a well prepared SWF squad.
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Theres a nurse in dbd?
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Exactly.
Especially the last paragraph. It is too bad those players have been allowed to succeed for so long due to nurse's mechanics.
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People who lump everyone together are absolutely the worst, I don't see how you can really expect to hold any crediblity whatsoever with those statements, also I want you to know those are opinions not facts opinions so dont go pushing them around like they hold any legibility whatsoever. It's such a dumb flawed logic that people like you use, and there's only one factor that you mentioned yourself Entitlement. (lol it even works on you.)
Also just because you played the game since 2016 doesn't mean your 'opinion' holds any legibility whatsoever just so you know before you fall down from that high horse of yours, yes solo q should be buffed, but just because you hate Nurse with a passion doesn't mean you get to dictate what is fair and what isn't fair. People hate huntress a killer people often find unfair because of her hitboxes and is another killer that is somewhat complained about and when she was first released people complained and complained about the rules and how pallets and vaults are supposed to be safe which I find ironic since half your point is she somehow breaks the games foundations.
It's also awfully hilarious how you try to dictate and lecture others about what isn't fair and what is fair like you are some kind of developer, hey guess what the devs decide what is or isn't allowed in this game and newsflash they made Nurse isn't that funny? Also newsflash god nurses are few and far between like seal team 6 swfs if you really think that oh no im going to get god Nurses every game I dont know what to tell you. Also newsflash she isn't cheat mode when you learn how to play her, you act as if getting good at a character in the game is on par with cheating when in reality its just getting good at a character in a game lol. Contrary to popular belief I doubt there is even a Nurse that never makes mistakes, even the best Nurse I know of SuperAlf makes mistakes so please show me your mystical god nurses that are just in every match and everyones closet ready to jump out at you at a moments notice in solo q.
Also not everyone plays Nurse to stomp, I play Nurse because she is fun, her ascetic, and because she was the first character I played in dbd just because I didn't like how trapper played and she one of the other free characters besides huntress and Nurse. I mained both huntress and Nurse and I was absolutely terrible at both, you act as if everyone goes into killers with just this competitive mindset that oh "im going to be the strongest killer ever that will teach those pesky survivors." When in actuality please explain to everyone why a console player would want to play Nurse in 2017 when sensitivity was awful and you could barely even do a 90 degree turn until the sensitivity update and the framerate was so awful that it stuttered my game every blink. Obviously I just wanted to stomp right, there is no way someone would play Nurse because they liked them oh no why would anyone do such a thing unthinkable really.
Honestly I don't say this a lot, but people like you really make me hate the forums, but go ahead fulfill your daily quota of "everyone who doesnt have same opinion as me is wrong and humph they just wanna exploit game mechanics." Come back to me when you are a developer that works for BHVR and let me know when Nurse actually somehow disobeys the untold made up powerful laws of the game. Also try not to lump in people just because you dislike the thing they enjoy. :)
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100% agreed. I'm getting tired of these kinds of discussions. 90% of all discussions are one-sided complaints about perks, killers, SWF or the-end-is-near discussions. It's okay for people to complain, but you don't need to start 10 discussions a day on every issue.
You know those spooky noises you hear from Dredge during Nightfall? That's the cry of every average DBD Forum user making the next complaint.
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Congratulations, you have just contributed to keeping the discussion about a Nurse well and alive.
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when this thread was made there was a Nurse thread just below this one ...
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You're really grasping at straws here.
I have yet to see a single "fact" that suggests Nurse shouldn't be nerfed.
So far all you've managed to say is "your opinions are opinions, my opinions are facts".
By the way, if you are still playing console and that‘s why you don't think nurse should be touched...like, yeah, I understand where you are coming from. But, PC nurse is many, many, times better than console nurse. But you already knew that, right? You can't be suggesting nurse be unchanged because she isn't OP on console..can you? I assume you know this, but...maybe not.
Another one of the people defending nurse seems to play with a controller on PC, and can't use the camera to look around very well, so I'm starting to believe that the people defending nurse are just claiming to know the game well but really, really, really don't.
As someone who has put many hours into the game and has lots of experience myself, I can say for sure that the person you replied to knows exactly what he is talking about. He has detailed knowledge of how the game works. All you've said, however...
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"You know those spooky noises you hear from Dredge during Nightfall? That's the cry of every average DBD Forum user making the next complaint."
Ha ha, you are a genius! I have to admit that since you said that, when I play the Dredge and put my ear to the ground, I can clearly hear, "Aaaaaaaah, no, not the Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurse, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" 🤣
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What I'm saying here is that Survivors dare to have the gull to complain about Nurse. After they have REPEATEDLY done NOTHING BUT abuse the crap out of every single broken AF thing they could get their hands on. Most of all when it's ALL THEIR FAULT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'll say this again, making the game all about looping instead of hiding and juking was THE SURVIVORS FAULT. They are the ones who lied their asses off with the BS "We want to be chased all game, that's what's fun!" In order to protect their shiny new exploit, because they were still REELING from the loss of true Infinites. To which the developers gave it to them.
Then you go on a rant about "0.5% of SWF groups blah blah blah". Bull crap it's "0.5%", not to mention way to move the goal post there. Voice comms on ANY SWF gives them a HUGE advantage. Simple things such as saying "The Killer is chasing me." This lets ALL other members of the SWF know it's safe to do gens, to cut out any hesitation. "Come get me, killer is chasing someone else." "Come over here to get healed." ect. ect.
This creates a massive power shift. "0.5%" is yet another strawman by SWF's who want to dominate. Simply because even if all 4 survivors, and the killer are of even MMR and ranking, SWF will always have a leg up because of voice comms. Survivors getting boosted way beyond their actual skill level because of it. Then Survivors have the audacity to whine about someone who's put the time in to get good with Nurse to counter it.
Complaining about Nurse is nothing more than Survivors putting the blame on Killers for THIER OWN BS. You wanted the game to be about Looping? Fine. You want to have a massive advantage with SWF. Fine. The developers gave you what you wanted, now quit whining Nurse, who came BEFORE ALL THIS, negates it.
Also, as a 80% solo Queue Survivor and a real horror fan. THANKS A LOT! Thanks to ego stroking SWF groups. Thanks to Survivors who can't do anything that require more brain power than running in circles, and pressing spacebar now and then, and holding M1. THANKS TO THEM, I have to have a nightmare of a game as Killer half the time. I have to have a nightmare as solo queue survivor nearly ALL THE TIME.
What really makes me angry though isn't playing the Killer, but the Survivor. I've been forced to give up the fun I had being SCARED. Now Killers have Killer Instinct all the time, Aura reading base kit or perks OUT THE YING-YANG, and LORD ONLY KNOWS how many Gen Regression perks because of Looping wasting SO MUCH DAMN TIME off the Killer. That and because SWF having ZERO DOWN TIME CAUSE THEY ALWAYS KNOW WHERE/WHAT THE KILLER IS AT/DOING! So Killers need slow down perks.
THANKS SO VERY MUCH for turning this in a FREAKING BENNY HILL CLOWN FIESTA instead of a ######### your pants HORROR GAME LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE!
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but it's so much fun to run in circles!
thank you for the post, I couldn't have put it better myself!
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probably because it didn't happen, your account was also made in march of this year so you're either ban evading or you genuinely spent 2 years on this forum and never made an account? lol
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Yeah, I think the Dredge feeds on the negative emotions of the DBD forum 😂
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This was more about me venting about constantly seeing it. I'm well aware of the irony.
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The natural process of every single game ever made is for the player to find the strongest possible way to play. Blaming survivor players for using the strongest strategy is like blaming the sky for being blue.
It is definitely good the devs chose to accept the looping route, though. Had they kept it a horror game I think most of the playerbase would have left ages ago.
You are right about SWF. It is embarrassingly OP. The sooner the devs nerf SWF, the better (buffing solo to SWF, and then buffing low tier killers to match is a terrible, terrible idea. I really hope that idea disappears from the forums).
Blaming the survivor players is a bit odd, I think. Of course, I've seen many survivor players exploit as many things as they possibly can. And yet, I've seen the exact same from killer players. It's almost like we are all just players.
Some fun examples: when new Legion came out and devs didn't fix him/her for months, Legion was one of the most exploited characters. Seemed like every killer you met was exploiting Legion. Devs took their sweet time fixing that one.
Or when myers could still increase his gauge without even seeing the survivor, just by continuing to hold the button. Oh yeah, saw a whole lot of that.
Or too many killers to count mori-cancelling over and over? Remember that?
Plenty more, of course. But you get the point.
I think you are probably a similar player to me. I play only solo-queue, and I play plenty of killer, just not the OP nurse and blight anymore. Makes the game too easy.
I'd suggest don’t blame the SWF players. Most of the players now weren't even around back then, anyways. Instead, blame the devs for doing nothing to help solo queue players and lower tier killers.
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dont care about nurse being strong just that some people insist that she is hard to learn. Yea of course Jimmy if you try to learn how to ride bike (learning nurse blinks/muscle memory) during a high speed chase (the game) and navigate in a town you've never been before (lack of game knowledge/map knowledge) while obeying the traffic laws (no tunneling) its going to be hard.
PS. im willing to hold an argument with someone but i wont respond to delusional people (usually nurse mains in denial)
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The discussions are important in the sense that pointed feedback is important. The devs have a really bad habit of painting in broad strokes and killing characters (Billy, Freddy) when add on passes are needed.
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Depends on how you define hard.
I consider her hard to play because she can be a massive PITA to control. Once you get the muscle memory down, there's also how her blinks interact with hitboxes, including the survivor's, lest you end up with "swallowed" blinks. On top of that, blink position is something that needs practice; it's perfectly possible to blink to a corner, only for the survivor to be turning another corner, forcing you to guess on the 2nd blink.
Plus, without add-ons, managing her blinks and recharge does require some planning (Otz explains this better than I could in his win streak with Nurse video).
What I will agree with is that while she's difficult to pick up, she's nowhere near the killer with the highest skill ceiling; Billy, Huntress, and even Blight have her best there, easily.
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Totally agree with you, i couldn't have said it better.
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Introspective and deep. Great detective work, Buckaroo! Saddle up and ride that pony!
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Before Spirit was nerfed: Nurse didnt have 3 blinks unless she had direct vision, her range addons werent also increasing blink speed, stunning her with a pallet was actually rewarding(right now, you WANT to get stunned by a pallet as Nurse), lots of bugs that made a lot of plays possible and you could actually outplay a nurse even if she ran double recharge addons. This version of Nurse had a skill cap that represented the mastery behind Nurse. A Nurse who gained a 4k at 5 gens was a danmed good Nurse, only had a max of 8 downs and would then win the game, a Nurse who gained 2k or less needed more practice.
Now: Practically all of Nurses bugs are removed, her 3 blink addon was BUFFED, her range addons were BUFFED, pain resonance was added, which buffed the already powerful Agitation+Starstruck Nurse. This Nurse barely needs any realistic skill to compensate. A Nurse who gains a 4k at 5 gens now heavily depends on her addons and perks.
AKA, 4k at 5 gens Nurse back then: recharge addons, information perks, would still do amazingly today.
Now: 4k at 5 gens Nurse: at least 1 distance addon, Ruin and Pain Res, then either Agi+Starstruck or Corrupt+Undying.
Pretending both Nurses are the same is like claiming DH now and DH post update will be the same.
The only bad map for Nurse is Lery's since its extremely low map visibility and only 1 floor. Gideon is in her favor since she can literally cut you off everywhere and hear you up or down stairs. It's the same reason why Midwich is her best map.
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Everything you just said is debunked by the simple fact that the devs said kill rates are too low. Killer is not this magical role that you paint it to be.
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I thank you for actually bringing up points.
*However* I don't entirely agree.
First, yes, three blinks is ludicrous. But I also know that it's not MDR; You're not seeing three blink Nurses that often. Omega Blink, again, very unfair and very unfun. Even if so, those are add-ons being busted; it's not like we called for Huntress nerfs because of Iri head, or Billy to get gutted for insta-saw.
Second, you claim that the bugs allowed Nurses to demonstrate mastery... what? A bug is something literally not functioning correctly. These bugs were also very random, such as the M1 bug or the Blink Swallow/1 blink bug. That's not mastery, it was an exercise in frustration because the game is literally not working correctly.
While I'm at it, I'll also point out that both Pain Res and Ruin are getting nerfed, so bringing it up feels a bit moot.
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The only thing that is more annoying than recurring threads about the same topic, are threads like these, that complain about them, without contributing anything.
If you don't like people discussing certain things, then don't participate in the discurse.
About the topic: Nurse is the new spirit: Who knows the exact reason, maybe its because killers had a very hard time the last patches or whatever, a lot of killers learned to play nurse at the decent level. She is the most picked Killer i usually face when i play surivor and its usually the same setup: Range addons, autohaven/mc millan map offering, starstruck, some vision perks. I can see that most nurses i play are not perfect players (they make most ports only with vision = walking nurses) yet they still have a easy time to destroy the average soloq team with ease.
Why did i say nurse is the new spirit ? It seems that people that wanted a easy 4k that picked spirit with op addons before the nerf have now switched to nurse. When i hear her voice after a blink at the start of the match i instantly want to dc (no fun to play so many try hard op kill, especially when you have a casual loadout). After the next patch, when deadhard is nerfed, nurse will be even stronger...
In my opinion her basekit can stay the same, she needs a addon rework (by rework i mean her addons need the billy treatment = making most of them useless)
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T'is very fair point.
And tbh, most of her add-ons *are* useless. She only has range and recharge (plus a bs Iri). Range needs to be gutted.
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Well, in the case of Nurse people have pretty much agreed that her basekit overall is fine(with maybe the change that post-blink attacks should be considered m2's rather than m1's). So 99% of her additional power lies within her addons, and thus 99% of her potential balancing issues are within her addons. Basically, the Nurse you're facing relies entirely on what addons she's running.
With Huntress, it was mainly the opposite. Her only issue is that she could camp and guarantee a hookswap at the least and a guaranteed kill if survivors had no comms, if she runs babushka and oak haft. Before, it was that and being able to carry 3 long range instadowns. Her basekit is normally not altered that much through her addons.
And yeah, the bugs did allow to show Nurse mastery better. And while some bugs were basically frustrating, the reduced fatique through stuns. Before, you could stun her with a pallet and then she would also enter fatique, buying survivors a LOT of time, now you dont want to stun a Nurse because it will ignore her fatique, and her fatique is longer.
And while Pain Res and Ruin nerf will help reduce the less skillful Nurses to no longer guarantee wins, both Jolt and Knockout have been buffed and her range and recharge addons remain untouched. Since this implies a slugging Nurse, Infectious Fright and Ruin are also still going to be used since Survivors that are not on comms are unable to find their teammate while Nurse chains chases untill everyone is down.
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Try playing addonless nurse on the game map against a SWF.
You literally can't do anything, you need 6 blinks minimum to go from the generator on one side to the other and in that time the survivors can just casually walk away from the gens as soon as they hear your heartbeat and you can't do anything about it.
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