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I think survivor misplays and resource management are way more impactful, now...
1). Without DH, tiles can no longer be greeded without fear of going down.
2). Going down is way more impactful due to increased gen times as people are forced off gens for rescue...obviously more impactful if there are multiple solos in the lobby.
3). Presumably, downs will occur at a more frequent rate, compounding the time/pressure crunch of the above point.
4). Pallets are considerably more valuable as a resource...Looping etc is business as usual, even with the killer buffs, but once pallets are cleared/dead zones created, the impact of these buffs becomes relevant.
5). As a result of this, resource management is way more important than it previously was, as throwing/removing pallets early enhances the impact of break speed/weapon cooldown speed buffs and survivor on-hit nerf.
6). As expected, downs will occur even faster once resources are deplenished, leading to more time off gens.
Just some theory crafting....
Feel free to discuss/contribute!
Comments
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Yeah pretty much, punishing mistakes is far easier now that the injured boost got nerfed and recovery speed got buffed. Survivors that grew comfortable with uninteractive hold W gameplay and dead hard users will be forced to learn how to loop correctly now, which is a skill that was sadly lost with time. Overall I think this patch is pretty healthy but some changes like DS being made borderline useless now and basekit BT not lasting very long are making games overbearingly tunnely and campy.
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sounds like good changes, before you could predrop every pallet and still probably 4E. Hopefully this helps with the metric ton of pallets on a lot of maps.
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It depends on how you look at it too. Because I had a few games yesterday where killers were able to completely overcommit in chase for way too long and they suffered zero consequences. Survivor feels a whole lot less rewarding.
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Was everyone else doing nothing during the chase time?
There's usually consequences/gen time lost for a chase of any length.
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Sounds like survivors weren't being productive, aye.
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Always a bad play, as the person being chased is burning those extra valuable resources >:3
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Depends on the build. It's the whole problem with adding time on gens and also buffing Thana. A gen doesn't get completed and the gets regressed with the secondary regression, like Pain Res. So yes, some progress was made. In terms of real consequences though? Not really. The exit gates don't care if a gen has 70% progress. It's either done or it isn't. Killers have a lot more leeway to make poor decisions now and get bailed out
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The exit gates are definitely merciless :P
I'd argue that in an extended chase, the loss from PR on a single gen should be under the progress made, whether it's 3 survivors on 3 gens or some type of grouping.
The killer also does not know which gen it was, anymore.
It can definitely be problematic, though, if the other people aren't as strong in chase and multiple PR proc, for example, so I kind of agree with your point.
Potatoes can definitely plant a whole team easier than before by burning pallets/going down at an accelerated rate.
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When there's 1 player being chased by the killer, the other 3 players should be doing gens. Especially if chases are going on for too long. And it's the killer's goal to kill the survivors, so to do that, they have to be committed to chasing the survivors.
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Killers may have a bit more leeway because the survivors now have a lot less leeway. Survivors are now being punished for their own mistakes and killers are now getting rewarded for making genuinely good plays and reads. That's the positive side anyway and I haven't been able to play survivor yet in the new patch so can't really give my opinion on the bad killers being rewarded for bad plays.
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I know that different styles of player react differently, but I'm finding myself a lot more inclined to assemble less oppressive builds, give hatch, etc - certainly not something you'd want to stake the balance of the game around, but the changes have had a tangible impact on how I play already. If I don't have to sweat, I won't sweat.
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I definitely get that, don't get me wrong. But I also think a killer shouldn't win if they don't have the game sense to know they can't commit to a chase on shack side of Blood Lodge when they have a 3 gen by main with 1 gen left. That's 100% a throw and survivors should be rewarded for extending that chase. Instead the killer was bailed out by 90 second gen+thana stacks+pain res.
The game should be balanced at a point where both sides are rewarded and punished for good and bad plays equally. It feels like the pendulum is a bit too far in the other direction now.
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finally a good argument instead or just the generic "Survivor is unplayable and not fun anymore" people still think they can rely on faster gens speed to win games instead of playing smarter.
however DS 100% need to be buffed, adding the effect to disable all killer powers for 10 seconds after the stun or reverting the nerf to the stun duration back to 5 seconds.
(tunneling blights , nurses are miserable to go against with current DS)
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There's room for a discussion about whether that should be considered some kind of mistake or poor play, though.
Chasing survivors is meant to be what you're doing as killer, and I'd argue that saying "overcomitting to chase" is a mistake or poor play, at best, an unproven claim. Should it be? Should killers constantly have an overwhelming time pressure breathing heavily down their necks in every chase?
Obviously there's a line, but giving killers more leeway to actually try and chase someone without automatically losing the game for not being super quick about it isn't an objectively bad thing.
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I get it. That's why survivors shouldn't do all the gens on one side of the map. Of course, that's to be expected in solo q which sucks. But by that time, maybe 2 or even 3 survivors take to chase against an unskilled killer to keep them off the gens? I will say, I think gens should be spread out a bit more further. And no way saying you're wrong. There will be those killers who stick to gens, chasing survivors off over and over not really going for the kill, extending the game almost indefinitely... Which I think is what you're referring to?
I'm not sure if that would be griefing or holding the game hostage at that point. But something someone should look into.
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I think a huge part of the skill cap in DbD is the strategy aspect of it. It's always been a positioning and area control game at the highest level up until this point. The lower tier killers had issues with time management to a degree, but B tier and above was almost always macro related before this patch.
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I agree with your opening statement there, but I'd argue that the time pressure was far too intense for everyone before this patch- the fact that Nurse and Blight and such can reliably meet strict requirements doesn't stop those requirements from being strict, and it certainly doesn't stop those requirements from being a problem.
Like I said, there's obviously a line, a point at which killers can commit too much time to one chase where it becomes something you can fairly consider poor play, but I don't think we're at the point where a killer crosses that line and isn't punished for it yet. It's just swung a little further back so killers aren't punished for having moderately paced chases where they need to actually outplay their opponent instead of getting them immediately.
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Thanks.
I usually try to look at things logically/figure stuff out. It's a habit from being a tournament player in the FGC.
DS could probably go back to 5s. I'd have to give a big disagree on the power aspect, though...killers should never lose their powers, barring built in/add on restrictions, imo.
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Fair. We'll see how it plays out. It's definitely a fine line to walk where killers aren't overly punished for taking the only play given to them by survivors and survivors are also rewarded for making the correct play. I wouldn't want to be a dev.
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Seconded. It's got to be very stressful.
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