DS stuntime suggestion
So as I understand, 5 seconds is too much for some killers(even though if you grab a survivor after 50 seconds of doing nothing and get the stun, thats means it's basically been a 3v1 for 50 seconds, thats normally a win), but obviously 3 seconds is too small because mobility killers like Nurse and Blight can basically ignore DS now.
So why not give it a time system based on how quickly you were downed off hook.
6 second stun if downed between 60-50 seconds, 5 seconds from 50-40, 4 from 40-30, 3 from 30-20, 2 from 20-10, 1 from 10-0. This also means that if a survivor has been picked up from the ground, they will no longer have DS.
If this sounds too complex, it should work fine with a token system: Activate DS from the start of the game, give +6 tokens whenever hooked and the perk is active, deactivate DS if used, using conspicious actions or once the exit gates are powered.
It would be more useful the quicker someone is downed(and thus the more likely they were camped and/or tunneled), but it makes necessary tunneling still viable.
Comments
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5 seconds was fine tbh. You should be punished for tunnelling if someone brings a perk to counter it just like survivors are punished in endgame if an endgame perk is brought
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well, yeah, but sometimes tunneling is a necessity. The difference between 5 seconds on a Myers or a Nurse was already quite a big gap and IMO, picking a killer because they are better at tunneling should also have a harder punishment in tunneling than a Clown who is forced to tunnel because the game goes too fast. Since lower tier killers tend to translate to longer chases, that would also mean that DS has a smaller impact.
Or in short, 3 second stun against a Myers or Clown would be enough to reach a tile or for teammates to bodyblock. 3 second stun against a Nurse and you might aswell not run DS.
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Tbf clown can actually make DS near worthless when using a bottle beforehand. Endgame DS really was the only issue imo and I’m glad it was fixed but a 3 second stun just makes it feel worthless when there is other options to extend chases with or without a tunnelling killer
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Nobody should be punished for playing the game, tunneling is a legitimate strategy, perks are not designed to help you with everything.
One might ask, Why was the Killer not successfully occupied? Why were you unhooked within reach of the Killer?
Old DS was too much a get out of jail free card, perks are not meant to ensure your survival, your teammates are.
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ah, so remove 80% of killer perks?
Perks are not meant to slow gens for you, you are
See how stupid that logic suddenly is?
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5 seconds were fine. If anything, the Anti-Tunnel aspect should have been increased, there should be a bigger punishment for tunneling. The only reason why it was reduced to 3 seconds was to remove DS from the Meta. This is the only reason.
Now we have OTR, but this is even worse to prevent tunneling.
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"Why was the Killer not successfully occupied?"
So, Survivors can now decide what the Killer does? If a Killer decides to leave chase to go for the unhooked person, should the Survivors try to mentally drag him back into the chase?
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Well if I see two Survivors, one healthy running to a bs loop tile and the unhooked survivor, still wounded running away.
Do you really wonder, Why? Really?
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This was not my question.
But the way you worded it sounds like the Survivors have control over what the Killer is doing. I mean, I can make myself present if I unhook someone so that the Killer has the option to go after me. But if they want to tunnel, there is nothing I can do.
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And this is exactly why DS exists in the first place. It's meant to be a deterrence.
Same logic goes for "if survivors see a gen and no killer nearby, you wonder why gens go so fast" and then you needing to run Pop or Pain Resonance to remove quite a bit generator progression for just playing the game. If perks shouldnt punish players for playing the game, and getting hooked is part of playing the game, then why also punish the survivors with additional regression?
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Then why are survivors punished for dropping pallets against nurse? Or punished for using healing builds against plague? Or punished for spreading out against twins?
Different playstyle exist and having perks to improve and counteract them is literally the whole point of perks. In your logic gen regression or anti healing perks shouldn’t exist either since those counter strategies of gen rushing and constant healing
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5 seconds was fine.
Tunneling already needed to be looked at anyway. Let alone getting buffed by nerfing DS's stun time.
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Do you know what bodyblocking is? Happens quite alot on my mmr level.
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What do you mean, playing Plague, Nurse and Twins is legitimate too.
As a Survivor you know these Killers exist.
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Five seconds was fine, and three seconds is not nearly enough. Why did they do it? I bet its to decrease its use rate and have survs run something else, simple as.
They said they wanted to change the meta, and the surest way is to to that is to make the most popular perks from the old meta really unappealing. Not really a whole lot of mystery here.
Which is why I am surprised they didn't nerf BT to the ground, but I guess that would have been a bridge too far.
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“Nobody should be punished for playing the game”
Then why am I punished by deadlock for completing a gen? The problem with Ds is it now does not help enough with tunnelling to warrant using a slot for it. Especially against top tier killers it might as well not exist anymore which sucks because with BBQ stacks gone there is no other incentive to hook other people especially with these killers
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Anyone who says "on my mmr level" is always bad at the game. MMR is meaningless.
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This right here is your answer.
DS is enough of a window so that a team member can come to body block. Or they can get in range for a flashlight save. Or maybe they can sabotage the nearest hook.
Survivors were used to 1v1 the killer as if they were taking their dog for a walk; those days are over.
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oh, so then where is the basekit comms? DS was implemented because there is no basekit comms. I cant yell at Kate to tank a hit if she's running away from me while I am dead on hook.
DS isnt enough of a window for a teammember to bodyblock unless you have basekit comms, especially not against recharge addon Nurse, alch ring blight or MD ring Spirit. This is why people run Off The Record rather than DS. Because Off The Record still gives you that window of time.
3 seconds is not enough of a window for abilities that basically negate distance. So either block abilities for 5 seconds instead, giving players versing Nurse and Blight enough time to actually get inbetween while not really impacting killers like Trapper of Myers, or change the stun based on how quickly a killer can down someone off hook.
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And as a killer, you know DS exists, what is your argument?
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5 seconds was fine. Now hopefully you get to a pallet or structure.
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5 seconds was not too much. It was fine
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Heck, they can make it like 10 seconds as far as I care, I'm just glad it deactivates in endgame
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Kate should've been smarter,
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How about 3 second DS baseline, and DS itself adds 2 seconds?
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So I should be the one punished for her actions? Doesnt make sense. Punish her for her actions or reward me for her misplay in post-game BP.
Thats why DS exists, so you do not get punished for mistakes you didnt make.
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Honestly standing still for 5 seconds was kinda lame. It feels way better now
But the survivors can't make any distance whatsoever
I would say 3 second stun but the survivor gets a speedboost so they can actually get away. If you can't get outside a nurse blink then what's the point
Less killer downtime and survivor have some defence against tunneling
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Yeah, but that was kinda the whole idea behind DS, so you wouldnt want to tunnel or you'd get punished with a 5 second stun. If you get a super short stun, then what really is the deterrence behind tunneling? As a dev you want tunneling to be less useful, but you dont want chasing the next survivor to be too easy.
Personally, I'd say that a temporary, but very powerful hinderance effect rather than a stun would be much more impactful. You could still move around a bit, but even mobility killers wouldnt be able to catch up(unless Nurses blinks are just an animation rather than actual speed, which I kinda suspect due to the distance addons)
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Honestly: why not? Camping and Tunneling seems to have become a great problem post-patch, so I would be cool with this.
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Yeah nurse blinks are animations that wouldn't work.
The point of DS was to give the tunneled survivor a fighting chance
Speedboost + 3 second stun would do that too
Probably even better then the 5 second stun depending on how long you make the speedboost
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Reading most of these comments let me remind y'all
DS stun time was changed to 5s because of Enduring, and when Enduring was nerfed BHVR was too lazy to change the stun time back to 3s
A lot of these debates are 1v1 mindset, and y'all forget that the game is 4v1. But I guess 4v1 doesn't matter until endgame when the gates are opened.
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I was just saying, Kate should've been smarter, ik it's not your fault, but there's no way around if the killer wants you out and kate doesn't want to help, this is a team game after all
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Its a semi-team game, if there is no comms, then there is no team. The way survivor MMR works, the devs also dont see survivors as 1 team.
So once again, exact reason why DS used to be 5 seconds in the first place. It was to decentivize going after the unhooked and instead going after the unhooker.
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And it used to be 4 seconds before that, when Enduring also reduced it. So why didnt they revert it to 4?
And no, its not a 4v1, its a 1+1+1+1v1 if all survivors are random. If it truly was a 4v1, then the unhooking person would be the one recieving the punishment, not the one being unhooked.
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Im completely agreeing with you, honestly I'd be fine with like a 6-9 second or something, give the survivor enough time to make some kind of distance
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Ds should be 10s stun to make tunneling bad stragedy and that should be basekit.
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I really hope you are not serious. This is a team game. The last time I tunneled someone in a SWF they got everyone to come to the hook for stage three. Everyone knew that they needed to keep that person alive.
DS is a chance to let an ally save you.
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I think this is a bad idea because it would punish killers who just found the person again and didn't realize they still had DS, while doing nothing for people actually tunneling.
They should at first try raising the stun to 4 seconds. If it keeps problematic, 5 seconds on the next patch, but I think 4 will be enough.
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I think this is a good idea, can make it 1/2/3 extra seconds
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