So what was the purpose In making self care unusable?

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ElleGreen
ElleGreen Member Posts: 1,063

They really made this perk so bad and for what..... Making perks horrible so people stop using them Is bad game design.

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  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    Some perks are bad by themselves, but if you pair them, they become god-tier.

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,531
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    It’s still just as good as before with botany knowledge which was 28 seconds if I remember correctly. I agree though there was no point in nerfing it when medkits are still overpowered

  • ElleGreen
    ElleGreen Member Posts: 1,063
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    They just butchered perks so people would try the buffed ones that still do the same thing as the ones they nerfed like they could have at least Introduced newer types of perks

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    No, I don't agree.

    The main reason of this update is to shake up the meta. Which is been butchering killers expirience for years, as well as survivors.

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437
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    Healing indefinitely at high speed made getting hit nearly irrelevant.

  • ElleGreen
    ElleGreen Member Posts: 1,063
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    They didn't shake it up they just replaced the meta with another super similar less fun meta OTR Is just a stronger less fun DS

  • Dunkinspunkin
    Dunkinspunkin Member Posts: 191
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    Then get used to some pretty sub par builds because for both killers and survivors, pairing perks for synergy is usually the most effective strategy.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    To me, replacing a meta is already an act of shaking this up.=)

    I don't see that much OTR in my matches, I actually see survivors using almost ALL kind of perks, I even created a thread about it.

  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,679
    edited July 2022
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    Self care + botany is 30.5 seconds.

    16 / (.35 x 1.5)

    it's just 1.5 seconds short of unnerfed self care by itself.

    Throw in mangled, and it's 38 seconds, which is only slightly better than self care with mangled before the update at 38 seconds instead of 40.

  • HP150
    HP150 Member Posts: 455
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    To change the meta, as they stated very clearly.

    There were a lot of common survivor perks that weren't necessarily "OP" but got nerfed. There were a lot of common killer perks that weren't necessarily "OP" but got nerfed.

    For now, I'd say they BHVR succeeded in their goal. I'm having a lot more fun trying out various builds than before for both sides (minus the fact that I still feel constrained to Kindred and/or Bond as a Solo Survivor).

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,172
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    To change the meta.

    In any game where it's applicable, you would do that by nerfing the commonly used things and buffing the uncommonly used things. By extension, if afterwards the commonly used thing is still worth running over other options, you've clearly failed.

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,808
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    Then don't complain about being tunneled. If I'm not allowed to ever lose (or drop to defend a gen) chase, then I'm not going to give you up.

    If the killer identifies someone with a really strong healing setup, the best strategy is to remove them. If an injured surv can be nearly instantly healed on demand, the amount of them sink that creates is inconsistent with being able to win. It's why CoH was such a problem, especially for certain hit and run killers.

    But I think the real reason they making self-care unusable is the same uncomplicated reason they nerfed most of these other perks: because they don't want people to use them as much. They want us to use other things. They pretty much explicitly said so.

    I continue to be surprised by how many people are perplexed as to why these perks were crippled; that was the point.

    And frankly I think self care is/was more of a problem for survivors, because on its own it was/is a massive timesink. I hated teammates who ran self care.

  • Bwsted
    Bwsted Member Posts: 3,452
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    The purpose was exactly what you said i.e. to make it unusable. So, you would stop using it and try something else.

  • Lecruidant
    Lecruidant Member Posts: 162
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    First off, then dont' lose chase. Second. Self Care wasn't a "High Speed" healing perk for yourself. It literally was double the amount of time somebody else healing was. Your logic is flawed. If you're going to complain about SC you might as well complain and whine about green med kits as well

  • Lecruidant
    Lecruidant Member Posts: 162
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    Okay? Then while you're tunneling and camping that one person out, don't complain about being "Gen Rushed" as per the usual Killer monkey brain excuse is

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437
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    "Self Care wasn't a "High Speed" healing perk"


    Let's consider time as a function of action economy; it is important to to note that the survivors have 4x the time economy of the killer.. One person at 32 seconds is the same as two people at 16 seconds. Either action makes you lose 32 seconds not spent on generators.


    Up until great checks got changed (they were 2.4 seconds per and were reduced to 1.2 each last year) you could often get 2-3 great checks and heal at near the same speed as someone healing you. The increased frequency of skill checks was of course triggered by Spine Chill - RIP.


    If someone needs to run for 10 seconds over to you to heal then the 16 second heal just became a 26 second heal. Wow look at how the efficiency changes. However if you both teleported to the same location then travel time becomes zero.


    Also if you had Iron Will you were at zero risk for the killer to hear you healing from super far away. If you had spine Chill there was zero chance a killer could sneak up on you with Nurse's Calling.


    So while on a surface level, IW, SC and SC looked like a noob build it was incredibly synergistic.

  • Grandpa_Crack_Pipe
    Grandpa_Crack_Pipe Member Posts: 3,306
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    Nothing has been more painful than survivors running away from my We'll Make It so they can run off to a corner and Self Care.

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,808
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    I don't complain about gen rushing, I either use a mobile killer or heavy regression.

    And I personally don't tunnel unless its very late game and I have little choice, and I don't camp until the end game when there are no other objectives to defend. But if "don't lose chase" is the solution for insta healing, then you have to expect that time lost to undropped chases to be accounted for somewhere else.

    Not dropping chases to defend a gen or other objective, or dropping chase only to have the surv fully healed 10 seconds later (thereby having wasted all the time spent in that chase) is not a tenable choice for most killers trying to win.

    And FTR I play survivor just as much or more than killer, I just understand that there are two sides to every coin, and have more than a half informed opinion.

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,455
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    First to get people to use other perks, that is the though with all the perk changes. Second to get survivors to understand that medkits are so much better than SC, and also Inner healing has always been good. Or just use Bond and find teammates to heal you plus all other gret info that perk gives you.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,032
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    that is called power-creeping. its when you make an new perk that is better than old one but performs same function. the objective of their changes was to weaken the meta perks on both sides. If you do not think self-care+botany is good enough for you, than do not use it.

  • Kees_T
    Kees_T Member Posts: 810
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    Just for clarification, wasn't it 24~ seconds?

    Old Self-Care makes you heal 0.5 charges per second.

    A healing requires 16 charges.

    Old Botany Knowledge would give you 33% extra charges based on the original value

    1.33 x 0.5 = 0.665 charges per second.

    0.665 x 24 seconds equals 15.96 charges.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    Yea... bad game design

    But Self Care in of itself is to encourage teammates to heal each other

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,177
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    Ruin + Undying

    Devour + Undying

    Pentimento + Plaything

    There are a ton of perks that are absolutely trash on their own and are basically 2/4 of your loadout if you choose to use it or get an extremely gimped/bad single perk.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,213
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    Yes, there is, the guy who insist to heal you right at the hook despite the fact the killer did returned to the hook every single time so far in this match.

  • VideoGameMage
    VideoGameMage Member Posts: 358
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    To get people to stop using it. Honestly just use COH + new botany. You'll never have to bring a medkit again.