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A question about the solo que nerf
Comments
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While as a solo survivor, I can attest that this update does affect me more than a swf (I do play with my son as well and communicatiin is key to doing well), but I don't think the update was meant to nerf US particularly.
What I find problematic with other survivors is that they refuse to work on gens, even when one is 75 to 80 percent complete. Or if I jump off a gen to go save, they jump off as well and follow me instead of sitting tight and completing the main objective. Or worse, they use their sprint burst to get ahead of me to selfishly get the unhook ahead of me, AND THEN END UP GOING DOWN IMMEDIATELY AFTER SAVING.
The other issue, which has plagued this game for years is swarming hooks to farm someone, who immediately goes down. They are actually losing points toward an emblem for this action. Blows my mind.
I get that some survivors think it's "unfun" to do gens. I get it. I find it can be boring too. But sometimes you just have to suck it up and use your head.
Do the devs need to reevaluate some of these killer slow-down buffs? I feel they do. But survivors COULD still use a modicum of good sense and intelligence when in a game to complete necessary objectives to escape.
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Eruption works the same way the numbers just got bigger. But SWF stayed at 0 while solo takes a bigger hit.
Overcharge does work differently so that ones also fair.
On further thought, I can see how those 2 perks are worse for solos specifically. At least those perks don't appear to be shaping up to be the meta, but time will tell on that front.
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Sure but they both lost 3 dollars. The question is not what they can buy its how much did they lose.
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All that was true before and nothing in the patch is making survivors not do gens or swarm, that's their own choice.
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Killers have been tryharding and still underperformed. Check
Kill rates were below expectations. Check
Survivors claimed that DH isn´t even good and that SB will take its place + be even stronger if DH gets nerfed. Check
People crutched their way up to high MMR without actually having the skill thats required to for those regions. Check
MMR take aprox 50-60 matches to adjust. Check
Give it time. In around 2 weeks everyone will be where they are comfortable and the game goes on as normal. What i´ve seen the last days, with my teammates actively sabotaging the game was simply toxic. Some people like to throw tantrums when they don´t get their cake and ruin everyone elses experience. But i have faith, that those people get bored quickly and either start playing normally or start playing something else. So the best thing is to just wait.
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That was my point: even before the update, survivors don't use their heads, even in a swf. It won't change unfortunately. I just don't understand some of the complaints based on how poorly some of these survivor play.
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I thought your point was "I can attest that this update does affect me more than a swf".
If it's actually not understanding the complaints because of the survs own gameplay then yeah I can 100% relate to that.
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Actually, no.
Any survivor nerf hits SOLO Q especially hard, because SWF players rely on each other and communicate. So, when they said "they nerfed solo Q", of course they nerfed survivor in general, but it hit solo Q particularly hard, when buffing killers mindlessly.
So, yes, they nerfed ALL survivors, but as always, they hit solo Q harder than they hit SWF.
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It does affect me, but it doesn't excuse my poor play or anyone else's if we're not using our minds.
There was more than one point I was making in the post. 😊👍
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As SWF has the same gameplay as solo, both being "Survivor", except one is using third party tools for an advantage, they would benefit using the free info provided by icons. It's information available to your teammates without the need of ANY input on your part. You dont need to ask for info if its simply given to you by the game. You can be more precise with inquiries from the get go, or stop wasting time GETTING the info and start USING it more quickly. I'm not gonna go into how broken ping/aura tools might become (good runners could see the hunter's aura nearly permanently in Deathgarden)
While yes, Survivors can and will ignore info privided to them, but thats on them, no fault of the system if you dont use it correctly. Same thing happening on current comms with the "we're only using it to chat about our days and talk about cute dudes"-crowd.
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Solo q lost the opportunity to buy food SWF didn’t
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What did solo lose that SWF also didn't lose exactly? What is the "food"?
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I’m sorry but at this point the only reason you don’t understand why this update made solo q worse is because you don’t want to and I’m tired of repeating the obvious.
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" I don't have an answer so I'm not going to say anything."
Solo did get worse... because survivor as a whole did.
You brought up losing the ability to "buy" something, then when asked to clarify because you never said what you were buying you dodged the question. That's a pretty important part of your argument to leave out.
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Every role has bad players, what's your point?
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Is it me or is this entire thread just someone splitting hairs and focusing on semantics to be ornery?
People don't literally mean the Devs specifically set out to nerf Solo queue as their entire objective. They're angry that the Devs gave absolutely no thought to how their changes would significantly impact the already disadvantaged (and large population) of players that cannot SWF. This thread is just about nitpicking how people express their incredulity that developers ignore the poor state of an entire group of players due to the strength of a minority of players ( 4-man SWF).
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I don't think anyone is saying the devs specifically wanted to nerf solo que.
But I have seen a number of people saying "solo got nerfed by a significantly larger amount than SWF did", which is the contentious part because as far as has been discussed, that's not what's happening.
The most we got was 2 perks currently viewed as subpar hit solos a bit harder.
Yes solo que should be improved, I also don't think anyone is arguing that point.
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I can't really comment on that because when I asked the person who posted it to clarify what exactly they mean by "buy a burger" and what solos lost the ability to "buy" that SWF didn't they dodged the question and left.
Presumably because they didn't have an answer. So that points dead unless they decide to answer.
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I'm with you here.
The moment the game is 18+, it does attract even more people below eighteen. What's more, PvP games were always full of immature behavior.. Unfortunately. You're even gonna get stalkers nowadays, but you can't do anything about it besides ignoring it..
Kids are there even now, and .. Well, you'd just play by muting them in-game or by selecting an option to mute them all. That sounds quite simple to me.
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Thanks for understanding what I mean.
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They didn't say what you can't "buy" either nor what the burger is.
At least answer the question if you're going to post something.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
It's already been explained to you quite thoroughly that Solo Q was always at a disadvantage and borderline miserable. It was ALWAYS a lot more difficult, with a lot more caveats. I'm not going to explain again why that is, as numerous people have already done so painstakingly.
Any survivor nerf, or Killer buff will impact Solo Q far more significantly than a 4 man SWF which has always had a ton of extra perks even if only by virtue of communication, coordination, ability to pick team mates, learn how to play efficiently with said team mates, strategize etc. This is a no-brainer. Numerous threads on the forums have illustrated that people who play in SWF's feel their gameplay hasn't changed much. The vast majority of Solo Q players have seen a huge drop in their already abysmal escape rates, many claiming that in most their matches, they don't even see the Exit gates powered.
So I'm not really sure what you're arguing in this thread. Perhaps you just don't feel as impacted if you're a Solo Q player, idk. But your OP has been answered fully and completely.
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The burger was an analogy to escaping.
The burger/escape being 5 dollars, while swf has 10 dollars, and solo q has 5 dollars.
If you remove 3 dollars from both groups, solo doesn't have enough to buy a burger, while swf does just cant afford to have fries with it anymore.
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They lost a high percentage in your analogy though. That's my point.
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Reiterating something doesn't make it true. There's also multiple people saying that they got nerfed the same amount and its just a general nerf.
Numerous people have also said that their solo que games are about the same as well around the forums and everyone complaining are just a bunch of babies, does that make that true because a lot of people said it? No of course not.
Just because solo que is weaker doesn't mean they got nerfed by a larger amount just because. The end result is they're just even weaker by the same margin. If we buff survivor in general, solo doesn't get buffed by a lot more than swf just because they're weaker. The counterpoint from a few just say "oh well solo was already worse and they got hit with general nerfs", which doesn't prove anything relevant.
My question has been answered in technicality, but that doesn't mean I agree nor that I have to stop discussing it. If I ask someone to explain why a triangle is the most stable shape and they tell me "because its a triangle", technically my question was answered but that doesn't really help. If I ask why DS got its stun reduced and get back "because it was too long" I don't have to just agree.
Asking why this hit solos harder and just getting back "because solo" isn't really an answer. So far only 1 person actually gave something that actually affected solos more, and some people are missing the point entirely.
Just saying they were weaker to start with doesn't prove anything.
People get told this and then continue to just describe solo que and why it was always bad. That is not the question nor the point.
10 secs per gen is not more than 10 secs just because of solo que. Killers didn't get 50% attack CD reduction if you're playing solo que. DS stun didn't get reduced to 3 seconds only if you're in solo que.
What in this patch is affecting them by a larger margin and why. No ones asking how solo is weaker than SWF in general, we already know that and that doesn't mean they got hit harder. They might be weaker, than before, but that can easily be because they started weaker, not because they got hit significantly harder.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
If your argument its impossible to escape solo now I have to disagree. There's still people escaping solo just fine myself included.
That's an exaggeration and also doesn't address the main point.
It doesn't mean they got nerfed harder, they just had a weaker starting point.
if we buff survivor does solo get a larger benefit because they started weaker? Of course not. Perks, for example, aren't stronger on solos just because they are weaker at base.
Being weaker at base doesn't necessarily make the changes affect them more unless they are specific to a reason why they are weaker. For example nerfing Kindred would be a big blow to solo specifically.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
And 2 is still 2. That's my point. Its not more than 2 for solos.
It's a smaller number so any change going to be a bigger percent. That like saying buffing survivors in any way buffs solo way more than SWF because "its a larger percent". Obviously that doesn't translate.
That part of the analogy doesn't translate to the game.
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So in a nutshell, people have told you why, and you just disagree.
Cool, it is what it is.
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I disagree with the ones who haven't given me an actual example when asked and are using theoretical comparisons but not having anything to back it up.
There's plenty of people in the thread I agreed with or came to an understanding with. There's just a few not making any sense and just trying to brute force their point across, whether its actually about the point or not.
I think those people are just examples of the first response "So essentially there was no solo que nerf, the general survivor role got nerfed and they're just personalizing it."
But it is what it is yeah.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Pretty much. It's clear what people are saying. This guy just won't accept tthe comments on this thread (even though these people are right). Best to stop responding, I guess.
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Yeah it is clear what people are saying, look a the first few responses on the thread. Some people are just personalizing it.
Solo que wasn't nerfed any harder than general survivor outside of 2 subpar perks. They're just weaker than SWF, like they've always been.
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He's a "Rightfighter"!
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and you really are "clueless". Now that we both achieved nothing with insults I think its time you move on.
I got my answer, you guys are just personalizing the issue and can't see past your bias,
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Ok
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Thank you everyone who actually wanted to have a discussion and were productive to the thread.
As of this moment, I am considering the question answered: just some bad actors in the survivor community personalizing the issue with potentially a bit of overreacting and scapegoating. With the exception of Overcharge and Eruption, 2 currently subpar perks, everything is equal in terms of power reduction across the survivor board.
I know things got thrown a little off track with some of the members of the survivor white knight squad that we are familiar with on the forums coming in, but I would like to thank mostly everyone for keeping things as civil as you did.
Even if I don't agree with much, if not all, of what some said, I can understand the theory behind what they are saying. So at the very least that was taken away form the experience.
I just do not believe that is actually what's happening and have not been given anything concrete saying it is, just conjecture and caparisons with no actual concrete examples in addition questions/critiques from myself and others being dodged or outright not responded to.
That said, thank you all again for your time.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Solo queue got hit much harder because swf was already stronger than killer, while solo was already weaker. So while swf are brought closer in line with killer, those same nerfs/buffs bring solo further from killer with only 5 second BT in return. And swf get that too.
Not to mention buffing things like eruption to 25 seconds. Swf can call out when they're about to go down. Solo can't. And the buff makes it even worse for solo.
"But the devs didn't intentionally nerf solo"
Doesn't matter. Unintentional is still a problem. They might not have set out to do it, but the end result is the same as if they had. Even moreso that they still aren't going to do anything about it for a year.
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Please read the the above comment or the edit on the OP if you did not. Although since you brought up Eruption I'm going to assume you did not. If you did my apologies for assuming incorrectly.
I'm sorry bit solo didn't get hit significantly harder, they were just already weaker. The weak got weaker but so did everyone else by effectively the same amount.
"But the devs didn't intentionally nerf solo"
That was never in question. Solo que got nerfed because survivor did. Solo is part of survivor.
I appreciate the effort, but this topic has burnt me out having to deal with certain members trying to brute force their opinion with no concrete evidence/examples and dodging questions/critiques. I would normally like to try and have a discussion, but unfortunately that is not the case currently.
I would prefer to leave it where it is at this time.
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