Tunneling and camping have gone out of control

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24

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  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    Ok so first of all: Tunneling and Camping is not a crime!

    Second: If you actually played B or C tier killer, you'd understand that tunneling and camping is the only way to win against strong teams.

    Yes it may seems dirty, yes it may seems shamy. But you know... This Nemesis wants to win too. How? By Tunneling one out as quickly as possible!

    It's a "dirty" tactic, but it's efficient. SADLY!

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    "I want behavior to crush that killer behavior completely."

    always with punishment, never with rewarding alternatives. This is how we got here in the first place.

  • Someissues
    Someissues Member Posts: 1,604
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    You have to tunnel and camp if you want to win, its literally inting otherwise vs SWF or competent survivors,

  • Remohir
    Remohir Member Posts: 17
    edited July 2022
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    I never said that, you just got super defensive because your argument is used against you.

    What you are not taking into account is that to get good survivors and good killers, you need to help the mediocres getting out of that pit. Or you maybe just don't want new people at your party so you can just keep using the same excuses to complain.

    MMR is not helping in that regard either. Sink one good survivor in low MMR and he rather single handed runs the killer for 5 gens, or when the killer get's to them facecamp happens. The killer improves 0, ranks up, only strategy is to tunnel camp if they want to keep up.


    No one is screaming about tunneling or camping, but as long as you or others only see things in one color, ignoring everyothing else, this is never going to be sorted. And using baby excuses won't help in any way.

    Maybe it is you who shouldn't be speaking, at least without really thinking

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Lecruidant
    Lecruidant Member Posts: 162
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    Yep. It's absolutely out of ######### control and people I know have stopped playing one by one because of it and i'm left solo queue'ing. And if they don't do something about it Killer queue's can just keep going up but Survivors will leave. Then we'll see what happens.

    But hey. Killers (that dont' know how to pressure otherwise) will always make up some excuse. Like earlier today I played against a Bubba who hooked in Basement. Camped shack HARD. He wouldnt' chase anybody. So I started doing a gen right next to him. Ran me off, would go back and do the gen. I knew what he was doing. So I kept doing gens. The other randoms kept going in and trying to save. Which is stupid. I stuck to gens. Did 4 on my own. Then got hatch while he ran at me. He flamed e afterwards saying that I "Gen Rushed" and was a ######### teammates because I didn't just throw myself at the basement hook and was pissed I got hatch lmfao

    Yes. You heard that right. I "Gen Rushed" him because he was camping basement hook.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Why do people continue to act shocked when killers take you out of the game?


    It's their JOB.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    You hate it because you are LOSING.


    What you call "sweaty" is just playing the game to win. Stop trying to use it as a pejorative.


    Killers playing the role of killer is not "toxic".

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    The Killer is TRYING TO KILL YOU. If you want a game where you are not in danger, but you really like running, I recommend Wi Fit, or maybe a Track & Field game.


    "Survivors just want to have fun". is a subjective statement that depends on what is fun for you. The way half the Survivor Community talks it sounds like they want Killers to pretend to chase them so they can feel good about playing a game of Tag, but have no action lethality to it. I say again, he is trying to KILL YOU and he is under no obligation to follow your made up "fun rules".


    The Killer is not your birthday clown and he is not here to entertain you.

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605
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    Why do you assume they care about all of that? have you seen how biased and entitled they are?

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Interactions are SUPPOSED to be a lost cause. You are SUPPOSED to go down. Chases are meant to be delayment of the inevitable. This whole "I wanna be chased!" thing comes to a grinding halt when it smashes into the reality wall of the Killer shoving you on a hook.


    If you are getting downed in the first minute, congratulations. You got a chase and lost. Here are the consequences of your actions. You manged to get seen (mistake), get caught out of position (mistake again), lose the first chase (mistake yet again), get hit and then get hit a second time to get downed (mistake YET AGAIN!)....


    .... and now you are sitting on the hook crying foul?

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Because people ignore the purpose of the game, that is why.


    I'm a Survivor Main. When I hear a terror radius, I hide. Do you know why?


    Because the objective of the game is to AVOID the killer, complete give generators, and escape.


    AVOID the killer.


    AVOID.


    As long as people keep up this "I WANNA BE CHASED!" garbage, you are gonna keep getting hooked.

  • Marik1987
    Marik1987 Member Posts: 1,700
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    The so called tunneling and camping is the only way to win games in the current game at higher level. There is a reason why tournament-killer proxycamp every game (and they play the strongest killers only). The maps are most of the time far too big for a normal killer to pressure enough + you could trade 1 hook for 2 gens if u dont run corrupt for example.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    edited July 2022
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    I'm sorry but the bias is palpable. While you could easily argue sweaty killers make playing survivor (especially solo) much less fun and interactive, what do you have to say about sweaty survivors making killer just as miserable? What if half the time a killer is tunnelling or camping its preemptively avoiding getting steamrolled? Its very easy to require a higher onus of skill from your opponent when making balance considerations, but you have to apply the same to your own side as well.

    Killers can't really escape from bad matches, while survivors are practically forced to. Many killers would rather remove the chances of a bad match ASAP than risk having to endure it. Camping and tunnelling will always exist (even if nerfed into the ground,) but in many cases its seen as a defense mechanism vs absolutely busted matches they've experienced, and the mental fatigue/insults/etc that often come with those.

    Making other playstyles more viable is the best way to reduce camping and tunnelling. full stop.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    Honestly I think of it like this: Efficiency softcaps are determined by how many survivors are alive, with the expectation of 1 in chase, 1 on hook, and 2 on gens. Basically the game rotates around roughly 3.5 survivors vs 1 killer. Since you start with 4 survivors, efficiency is skewed toward survivor at the start. Since survivor efficiency potential starts higher, they are the most powerful at the start: They have all hands on deck, no resources on the map have been used or altered, and they have 8 gens spread around the map to work on. Once someone dies they become less efficient than the killer, but still relatively close: They can have 1 in chase and 1 on hook, but one would have to get off a gen to help the one on hook, so they're alternating between rescues/healing vs gen progress... a disadvantage, but still one that you have the manpower to work with.

    This is a big part of why gens fly early and slow down later. Survivors can (and do) often press their advantage as much as possible early, to offset their disadvantage later. The same applies to killers with kills: they want to get one out ASAGDP to reduce the efficiency advantage survivors start with, while increasing their own advantage and pressure. This is where the gen speed argument comes in, its inherently skewed at all points in the match, as there is never 1:1 parity with efficiency.

    Gen speeds when all survivors are alive need to be slower, BUT they need to be faster when survivors are dropping like flies. Gen defense perks used to be an attempt at that, but almost every single one getting nuked from high orbit, don't expect the gen rush/tunnel camp meta war to change any time soon. If anything I'd say get ready to weather the storm.

  • MilManson
    MilManson Member Posts: 939
    edited July 2022
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    It's not fun losing 3 gens in one chase on a huge map as a weak killer too if they have resilience, dead hard, if that happens I'll happily camp to force some survivor - killer interaction.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,262
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    Sweaty survivors are usually mentioned in the context of SWF. In solo que, I'm lucky if I get someone on my team that can run the killer for more than 10 seconds. I can't tell you how many times I've had the last survivor on my team walk and hide while the killer is rushing to find the hatch. They don't even try and then run up to the nearest exit gate thinking they'll make it which never ends well for them. I never base my arguments around the top MMR experience. I base it on my experience and what I most commonly see and what I most commonly see are killers gaining quick advantages and control over a match where then survivors have to risk the entire match to try and recover the situation. Killers have too much power and control in this game. Ever played against a cenobite with gen reduction perks? I have never had a fun match let alone escaped against a cenobite with builds like this because they simply have more control over the progression of the match. The game has too many perks and the more it keeps adding the harder its going to be to ever get it into any kind of balanced state.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    Reread my post, and the one after it about efficiency. You're only assuming the worst of the opposite side while ignoring the worst of your own. Thats bias.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,016
    edited July 2022
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    You are not being locked out of playing. The survivor role by design is one that gets eliminated by the killer. Being on hooked by design removes a lot of individual options and relies on teammates being able to save you. Slugging by design is similar to being hooked, but there's more perks that can aid you while slugged and you can still move towards teammates for pick ups.

    At no point is the killer who is tunneling or camping you preventing you from playing the match, you are simply dealing with the fact that by design survivors sometimes don't have much control over what happens.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,262
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    I played 5 matches last night against 5 different killers on 5 different maps. Out of all 5 matches I think a total of 3 generators were completed and the killer got a very fast 4k every time. I am not a top MMR player. I'm not great at this game. I was matched against killers who were able to take full control of a match in a matter of seconds. This should not be the experience of a casual survivor main. This is not fun and it most certainly doesn't make me look forward to the next time I play this game. For every bad match a killer has there is probably 100 survivor mains having an even worse match against a sweaty killer. The "worst of our own" is not the majority experience of survivor mains especially those who play solo que. They are the top MMR players who I will never see and get matched with but yet I'll constantly get matched with a killer thats way better at the game than I am.

  • AJStyIez
    AJStyIez Member Posts: 419
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    I don't know what fairytale world you live in but this will never happen in DBD. The majority of this community and its content is for/by Survivor players, for every one of your friends that quit there is 100 more that will take the spot. Killer ques will never be an issue except at off-peak hours very very rarely. Killers are the ones who were quitting en masse which is why there's an update mainly catered to Killers coming out in a few days. Its the equivalent of somebody threatening to leave California as if they're not already massively overcrowded in the first place lol

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 1,947
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    I'm surprised when The Killer isn't tunneling or camping, but even then, I have been impressed with the frequency of it of late. It's incredible to see killers abandon a chase or even a free down to return to the hook to tunnel someone with zero generators done relentlessly! It's so rampant that I often bring Kindred, Open Handed, Guardian, and Borrowed Time to help, and it does little. With Guardian, I see The Killer returning and deliberately seeking out the newly rescued Survivor. It's a terrible state of play now, and I'm not confident that the Mid-Chapter update will achieve what the devs claim they set out to do.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Dying taking you out of the game is standard in 99% of games.

  • Nikatara69
    Nikatara69 Member Posts: 273
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    Listen "trying" it doesn't mean he should stand and watching me on hook for damn 3 minutes. Lmao. In this stage that is not a game but freeking "dry meat simulater". No, thanks I better will go and play something else or read Manga or book, instead of wasting time on person who doesn't know what mean PLAY A GAME.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    What the killer chooses to do with his time in game is none of your business. He can stare at you. He can go hunt down someone else. He can break nearby pallets.


    Believe it or not killers do not have to run anything past you first.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,110
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    Are you kidding me?

    You consider getting seen a mistake? You do realise that there's a small trove of killer perks that make it impossible to avoid getting found, right? And you know that, if the survivors want to have any chance of finishing their objective, they have to risk being seen?

    Then you pull some 'out of position' thing out of god knows where, once again disregarding the fact that survivors are forced to move into certain locations by merit of the objectives, and then you somehow split 'losing the chase' into two separate items. And you mark 'got downed' as a mistake despite the previous paragraph of your own post declaring, loudly: "You are SUPPOSED to go down!". So how is that the survivor's mistake!?

    And that is on top of a gross misrepresentation of the actual issue. The problem isn't that once a killer starts chasing you, it's virtually impossible to lose them, the problem is that survivor gameplay is supposed to be more than constantly getting chased down and nothing else (Tunnelling), or only getting one single chase and 2 minutes of incapacitation (Camping, slugging).

    Literally no one complains about getting hooked. People complain about the game mechanism of unhooking getting sidelined by campers.


    what do you have to say about sweaty survivors making killer just as miserable?

    I am absolutely in favour of nerfing bully squad tactics to the ground. In-built flashlight immunity for X seconds after being blinded for example. BNP removal. Removing the ability to deny pick-ups by healing.

    But bully squads require a ton of skill and intensive coordination from multiple people to pull off, whereas camping just requires the killer to play for a bit and then AFK. Which do you think is going to be more common?

    I also don't think -anyone- on the forums has ever argued in favour of bully squads and their tactics. But the pushback against any criticism on tunnelling and camping is pretty hefty. There's always, -always- going to be someone popping up going 'Well killers don't have to make the game fun!' when I can't think of a single time a complaint about bully squads was ever dismissed like that.

    Everyone hates bully squads. But there's a lot of people stuck in a sort of revenge mentality that'll jump high and low to justify camping, tunnelling and slugging.

    That's why no one bothers to point out how annoying bully squads are. We know. Everyone knows. There's no discussion to be had. It's just going to be 'I hate bully squads', 'I agree'. There's no point.

  • Kaitsja
    Kaitsja Member Posts: 1,714
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    You and 61 others.

    Yes, yes, we are all aware the killer's role is to kill survivors, but camping and tunneling are boring and showcase exactly zero skill. I find it far more exciting when the killer actually mindgames and downs me because they were more skilled in that scenario versus when they just tunnel off hook because 3v1 is easier than 4v1.

  • Vagab0ndCat
    Vagab0ndCat Member Posts: 80
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    "Im trying to win normally"


    Uhhhh, you dont get to define what "normally" is, anyone should be able to win in any way they desire as long as they're not using third party software to get unfair advantages.


    In Dota, the main goal is to destroy the enemy's side Ancient, doesnt matter how you do it, even if you're backdooring and not fighting the enemy.


    Never understood why you have to be "nice" in DBD, either as killer or survivor, if you want to be "nice" (im not saying be toxic), maybe stick to single player games.

  • Vagab0ndCat
    Vagab0ndCat Member Posts: 80
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    My advice for you:


    Single player games, no "sweaty killers treating this game as an olympic sport" there.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    It has nothing to do with real life. Killers literally join a game to kill four other players. That is literally their job.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    "Out of position" is a term the community has had for over 5 years. This is not new.


    And yes, you are supposed to go down in chase. You are not supposed to get seen in the first place. There are perks to help you find Survivors, but no perk is perfect and you only get four slots. For all the whining about "gen regression" perks you are now worried about location perks? How many perk slots do you think killers get?


    Camping and tunnelling are the Killer doing their job to kill you. You are not ENTITLED to an unhook.

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Why would I mindgame you if it is a tactically stupid decision to do so? If my options are wait ten seconds to get that second hook state out of the hanging Steve, or chase after the Nancy clicking her flashlight at me and that CLEARLY wants to be chased.... I'm not chasing her. That would be stupid.


    I don't care if you think it is 'boring". I'm not here to entertain you. And people that throw around phrases like "zero skill" are often the same people that say that NOED gives "free kills".

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    Correct. I have to go out there and get them, which literally no Killer on this forum is asking to stop happening.


    But Survivors think Killers should LITERALLY walk away from hooks so they can escape.

  • kaneyboy
    kaneyboy Member Posts: 260
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    Yerps it’s awful- I don’t even want to play r/n :(

  • Nikatara69
    Nikatara69 Member Posts: 273
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    Tell me about it, with dosen off try hard "EZ" people in game who came after match and abuse in profiles, DMs and other places. They are God damn loosers in real life

  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,638
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    I don't think anyone is a loser in real life for how they play a video game. It's not real. I used to play a lot of Lemmings on Windows 95. I enjoyed watching the little idiots drown by falling into water. I assure you, I have never murdered anyone nor do I intend to. Cause... you know... it's a video game.

  • M4dBoOmr
    M4dBoOmr Member Posts: 598
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    90% of the time

    5 sec chase = THE KILLER IS TUNNELING

    5 secs at Hook = OMG HE'S CAMPING

    10 %

    the killer is actually Tunneling

    the Killer is actually Camping

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605
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  • HauntedKnight
    HauntedKnight Member Posts: 385
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    The option to tunnel/camp should never be taken from the game. Because it is genuinely at times the smartest play a killer can do. It should not be an attractive option, but it needs to be an option.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,110
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    Yes, out of position is a legitimate term, but you're tossing it into a hypothetical where it has no business being.

    You are not supposed to get seen in the first place. There are perks to help you find Survivors, but no perk is perfect and you only get four slots. For all the whining about "gen regression" perks you are now worried about location perks? How many perk slots do you think killers get?

    Aside from dodging the whole 'survivors have to be on gens' argument, you're also dodging the actual meat of the argument: It isn't always the survivor's fault they're spotted. And you can't deflect with 'well, killers won't run them anyway', because that is patently untrue. BBQ & Chili had a pretty solid pick-rate before its nerf, and there'll be other perks that offer intel too.

    If the game were built around hide-and-seek, killers wouldn't have ANY intel perks. So this idea that a survivor getting spotted is their 'mistake' is nonsense in almost any situation. Sure, there'll be cases where a survivor may get caught because they're careless, but if a survivor wants to get objectives done, they are going to have to risk being spotted. And if a killer brings the right load-out (Or the right killer, IE Hag or Doctor) there's no way to avoid it.


    Camping and tunnelling are the Killer doing their job to kill you. You are not ENTITLED to an unhook.

    Can you stick to a single argument, please? First you're arguing about survivors getting hooked at all, and then when that flops, you retreat to 'you're not entitled to an unhook'.

    Which is fine, in and of itself.

    But it does mean gens need to be made way, WAY quicker to compensate for survivors having only one hookstate. Pick your poison.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    you went immediately to bully squads, I didn't. Solos can and do also make killer miserable just as well, its often the first defense BMing players give that they're "not even swf." Also its not "a revenge mentality" in most cases, but a defensive one: A lot of people who play killer less often will do it to reduce the liklihood of having to deal with 4 people refusing to leave and bming in the exit gate. Can't be a sore winner if you don't win.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    The most ironic thing is that location and information perks are the #1 deterrant to camping and tunneling, since they improve the efficiency of going for a new target vs staying on the current one. When people complain about any of them, especially BBQ which that is literally its only value now, it stops being impartial.