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Tunneling and camping have gone out of control
Comments
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The game IS designed around hide and seek. The developers have said so.
And the only time it is not your vault for being spotted is if the killer is Undetectable. The terror radius exists for a reason. If you are on a gen, and you hear the terror radius getting louder, and you don't leave or hide, that is on you.
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Killer now: we're just playing to win. Nothing wrong with that
Killer before patch: ree! How dare survivors have so many second chance perks! It's not fair! Nerf dead hard, nerf DS! Nerf nerf nerf! Ree!
I swear killers just want survivors to spawn on hook so they can be the "power role" without having to actually work for it.
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It originally was, but emergent gameplay tossed that out of the window. How are you going to hide against a Doctor, or Victor? The game has very clearly moved on from that style.
All right, so we've already established that being spotted isn't necessarily the survivor's fault, but how are you going to move away from that gen fast enough without running and leaving a glowing red trail pointing out your location?
You said 'sweaty', not 'BMing'. And what do you propose is done about BMing survivors? Take away the ability to crouch? Or just laser focus on that last line of yours and make sure no survivors (including the perfectly fair ones) can ever win, so you don't have to deal with someone squatting at the exit gate?
Because I can tell you that that would be -really- bad for the game.
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Hey I might have been playing with you during that nemmy match on the game! I was a scoopy steve!
Yeah that nemesis straight up camped from the first hook and tunneled everyone the whole game! Like not even proxy camping just straight up laid down some tent stakes and a bedroll lol
man that sucked. Im quitting the game too. I just keep coming here to make sure it's not just me and with the hope I'll eventually start seeing killers crying about something on a thread so I can have some glimmer of hope that theres something, anything, that's strong against them now. But then again killers will complain about anything so its hard to sus out anything legit.
Like I've seen some bad patches in this game but this was like "Wow" bad lol
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The myth that you have to camp and tunnel to win is a lie. You have to get good just like survivors do. Killers act like survivor is this cakewalk but no one takes into consideration you have to master so much mechanical skill, memorize counters to dozens of different killers and their addons and perks, and memorize a couple dozen different maps and their common tile spawns and how to play them correctly. It's a high skill ceiling and it turns most people off from the game.
Killer used to be the same way. You had to learn to master your power and abilities, memorize map tiles and how to run them, learn how to keep track of survivors whereabouts and activities across the map, how to mind game at loops and when not to, how to moonwalk and hide your red stain. You had to learn how to cleverly synergize perks and addons.
Killers who say you have to camp and tunnel just want easy wins and have no interest in mastering any skill. Killers who say that depending on the context it makes sense to occasionally tunnel/camp are the ogs who know how to play or at least have some level of interest in becoming good.
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it doesn't need to stay if they generally make it not a smart play. Right now it's still smart but in a perfect dbd the killer get's rewarded for not doing it.
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Developer's last comment about it being a game of hide and seek is less than one year old.
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Before patch :"camping and tunneling every game, its out of control!"
After patch: "camping and tunneling every game, its out of control!"
I don't think the patch did anything special. That said, I wish these issues would be addressed in a sufficient manner. But that's more work than I think the devs/company are willing to do.
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It's funny how people claim you need to camp and tunnel every game if you want to win. That's just not true. Maybe if you want to win consistently. But it's funny how we tell survivors not to expect an escape every match, but don't tell killers not to expect a 3k+ every match.
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Again, how're you hiding against Victor or the Doctor?
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The same way you do any other Killer. Victor grunts like a little snot, and the Doctor is really only going to find you with one power on a very long cooldown that you can hear the charge up for.
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Yes. But he IS going to find you. And a strategically positioned Victor will ping you too.
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What kind of reward are you talking about? Because if it’s more BP I doubt it’s enough to make people stop camping/tunnelling.
Clearly the devs and anyone with a shred of empathy for survivors does not want the killer to be camping at 5 gens or tunnelling the first person hooked to death. The dilemma arises when people start talking about ways to outright remove the option to utilise these tactics at any point.
For example, let’s say a survivor gets hooked and is now on second stage. Importantly for this hypothetical, they’re inside the killers 3 Gen zone and there’s another Gen the other side of the map which the killer is tactically deciding to give up. In what way can the devs make it so that proxy camping/Gen patrolling isn’t the correct play in that situation? Making hooks function like Cage of Atonement? Pausing the hook timer if the killer is nearby?
On a similar note, if the killer somehow gets two people hooked close together or potentially down in the basement, why should they leave the area? Because it’s not “fun” gameplay? I mean I guess winning shouldn’t be the be all and end all for whether someone enjoys the game but people want to win and will go for optimal over fun in order to do so. And unfortunately for the other side that may not be the most enjoyable thing. I agree with you that the best the devs can do is make it so these tactics aren’t game winning but they still need to leave these decisions up to the killer and make them much less appealing.
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haha so true 😂
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Okay? Just because you screw up at some point doesn't change the design intent. You are not supposed to be caught in a game of Tag either, but if it doesn't happen you don't really have a game.
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Lol, just maybe read, what I'm trying to say
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Played survivor yesterday, in about 10 games, there were 3 that hard tunneled, which is annoying but not significantly worse than pre-update in my experience.
(I play at a low-ish mmr, I'm not very good at survivor yet but not a complete newbie either)
As for playing killer, I heard the queue times were terrible right now so I haven't played that role since the update.
I don't understand either the fun of tunneling. My most fun games are either monkeying around with survivors as Legion (a LOT of survivors DC when they see Legion, so I'm often friendly with the others if they're willing to play along) or serious games with Hag where I go out of my way to not tunnel (especially the occasional poor confused unhooked who has obviously never played against Hag before and somehow triggers half of my traps in the area, which always makes me laugh).
I've seen some killers justify early game tunneling like "but they brought [this] item !" (which is clearly a personnal attack against them and not just using an item from the game). I mean, if you see something you don't like in the lobby, just dodge. As a Hag player, if I see three flashlights, you bet I'm waiting some more for a match-up that won't counter me entirely. There's no sense going into a match that you know will make you angry and frustrated.
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their definition of camping is Killers being anywhere within 100m of the hooked survivor. They want killers to be at the otherside of the map everytime. Even when the killers have a huge plan to gaurd a 3 gen and the hooked survivor is in between it, they get mad
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Well. He was clearly silly for saying you gen rushed. HOWEVER, your team mates are silly for still trying to rescue a basement survivor being guarded by The Best killer BUBBA. Its hard not camp when survivors like your teammates come to you.
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You’re not entitled to survival.
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Where did I say I was? Quote me
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Ummm...since when is there a winning or losing point to DBD?! The object is to get as many points as possible each game, literally the only goal. You can get max points without killing a single survivor as killer pretty easily if you know how to play the game. There really is NO legit strategy that call for camping or tunneling, except maybe at end game if you want your 1 kill. People are always making up their own rules to the game to justify the good or bad way they play, usually bad. Face the facts: There is no WINNING or LOSING in DBD lol
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When did @WesCravenFan say he entitled to Kils? :/
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I had maybe 1 face camper and 1 tunnel in like 17 games. Pretty good tbh last patch was miserable woth so many killers just camping and tunneling every oppurtunity they could. Turns out if 3 gens dont pop at the start of the game the killer is less inclined to camp amd tunnel. Strange huh?
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Side note nemesis players are usually the ones tunneling and camping most of my games. Tho i think thats more to do with his power requiring 3 hits to down.
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It's implied when you think DS is too much to be activated in end game.
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The question i am going to ask you is not sarcastic what so ever, I am truly seeking for a reasonable and logical answer.
How is it fair/Logical for a killer during end game to not be able to do anything about a survivor who is downed and crawling to the exit gate and as killer gets punished for picking him up? Now you could say eat the DS before end game or wait 60 Seconds, but 60 seconds is plenty of time to reach the exit gate and escape, not to meantion the amount of bodyblocks by well coordinated team member. And if you eat the DS early, Survivors complain about getting tunneled, and if you play the way survivors want you to play you dont eat the DS and they get to use it later.
Whats the right solution if it does not get deactivated during end game?
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Yeah, but Tag doesn't give some players the ability to glue others to the ground.
Because that would defeat the point of the game.
Much like having intel perks and powers defeats the point of hide and seek.
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Of course it would, its a hyperbolic projection you made trying to make me sound like a lunatic. All i'm trying to do is get you to understand a different mindset.
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.... you literally just described Freeze Tag. Sooo uhh.... yes, it does.
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I'm not really surprised. Almost everything considered damning or 'big' in terms of an update was a nerf to survivors. I mean, they even nerfed DS which was perfectly fine, a 5 second stun isn't going to stop a tunnel most likely but it damn well will give you some breathing room and buy time for your team. They went even further by making it completely useless at end-game which is when DS was particularly so useful for. There's no incentive to bring it anymore.
Dead Hard isn't the saving grace it once was. Although I agree with the nerf, I think 'timing' it against high MMR killers is incredibly hard as a lot of them know that survivors STILL bring it and get extremely close to you so that their weapon swing is nearly impossible to see coming since its so quick and the animation is harder to see since they're hugging you.
The scary thing is they pushed this patch through thinking everything would be okay or certain situations would be improved upon but all they did was make it much worse.
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So in a game where you run away from a killer you're quitting because you didn't like running away from a killer
Cool, good luck!
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Something that people aren't talking about is the real reason why killers are/would still tunnel. It's conditioning. For about 2 years, let's say, I played killer in a non-tunneling camping way, because naturally I wanted to go for chases. Only after those 1-2 years of losses did I realize that I needed to change the way that I played if I wanted to win. From then on, I was conditioned to go for tunnels and camps, with the only exception being if I knew it was a chill team.
It's going to take a lot for killers to change the way that they play, even after they've become strong enough to win games without camping or tunneling, because it's the play style that their minds associate with playing efficiently.
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But what kill rate does playing nice like that result in for you?
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Yeah, freeze tag allows them to glue them to the ground -after- tagging. Stop misrepresenting.
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Then what are you blithering about?
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You bring up Tag: "You're not supposed to be caught in Tag either, but if it doesn't happen, you don't really have a game"
To which I reply that Tag wouldn't work if the tagger can just glue people down.
And your response is to bring up freeze tag. Where you get frozen -AFTER- getting tagged. That part of the game doesn't interfere with the 'don't get caught' part, and you know it.
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Yeah, and I was pointing out that it's not bias to not talk about BMing survivors when the subject of discussion is tunnelling and camping.
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So... you are comparing.... what? Doctor Shocks to.... glue?
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I'm comparing something that makes it impossible to hide in a game that you allege is about hiding, to something that makes it impossible to get away in a game that's about getting away.
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I never camp outside of the EOGC, and only when I've got <1 kills.
Tunneling is mostly fine.
It happened before the patch.
It's still happening.
I can't tell whether it's more, less or the same thus far - but baseline BT and OTR really do help.
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There is that "impossible" word again....
Hyperbole much?
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Do you have an actual argument or are you just gonna keep sticking your head in the sand?
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I have gone entire games and escaped without the killer laying eyes on me. This "impossible" claim is complete bullcrap.
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Did you ever get four people all avoiding the killer, none of them being spotted once, against a Doctor or someone with aura reading perks?
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Do you just face NOTHING but Doctor players? On maps with no lockers?
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YOU say the game is hide and seek.
How do you play hide and seek against a Doctor who isn't hardcore throwing?
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But do you win?
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I cannot believe there are nigh-30 Killers in this game and Herman is living in your head rent free.
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Why they chose to nerf DS then just give us a 5second BT any killer can wait out and decrease on hit distance gains thinking it'd fix camping or tunneling I'll never know.
Really should of given us baseline kindered . Be a big simple buff to solo que and give crutial info on when it's time for a save or not
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