losing to baby killers thanks to the stupid killer buffs
before any of you say "oh you need to learn to loop without dead hard. thats all"... i have 3k hours in this game. i didnt use dead hard that often either. i LIKED looping without it. or any exhaustion because it felt that much satisfying to know i had a long chase WITHOUT any help. so now that we have that all cleared up:
i miss facing good killers!! killers with good mind games, who knew how to pressure gens, and when you lost to them you could say "he played really well. ggs" all i get are a bunch of boosted baby killers who don't know how to mind game and now they don't have to learn because the game just hands them the win. You cant simultaneously make gen times longer as well as make chases shorter. survivors dont have enough time to get anything done before the killer comes to interrupt. every game feels too exhausting.
i used to play killer and survivor equally, im red ranked in both, but since the patch i have been playing killer a lot more because its wayyyy easier and less stressful. yesterday, i got adept on 6 killers i had never even tried before... do you know how many games it took me? 6....... ITS TOO EASY. THERES NOT EVEN A CHALLENGE.
BHVR, I think you went WAY overboard with these killer buffs. a lot of the perk changes were nice. good job. no complaints (except maybe thana. thats miserable).. but the amount of base kit changes in the killers favor is ruining the survivor experience.
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If you're losing to opponents worse than you, why would you want to face people better than the people you can't beat? Absolutely bizzare logic.
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im sorry where did i request that? i said i wanted killer buffs toned down a bit. the only reason im losing to people worse than me is because they are buffed beyond belief
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If you can't run a baby killer for over a minute with this update you're the baby
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i do run killers still thank you very much. would you like to see my clips? i have many. the problem is, the gens still dont get done with the longer gen times. ESPECIALLY when you factor in all the slowdown perks these killers are stacking.
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Is that a problem with solo queue or the killer buffs? Solo queue has always been terrible when it comes to gens there is just less leniency when it comes to not doing gens.
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i think solo q plays a part in it you're correct. but ive literally had games where we could barely finish one gen thanks to thana, jolt, scourge, pop or whatever else they wanted to stack on TOP of the slowed gen times. and this is with everyone really trying to do gens. you get a small map and a killer with stacked slow down and high mobility and its just gg
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Thana: 100% didn't need the buff and besides legion/plague there are tons of healing options that get better and better every update
Jolt: I only see being a problem on nurse or survivors grouping up for absolutely no reason
Pain Res: Actually shouldn't exist in the way it is. Was buffed with gen time increases and it can take like 20 seconds of worked time if 4 stacks thana is active while they did the time
Pop: basically a joke now since it only beats out Pain Res when the gen is >75% by a small margin
Overcharge: Ehhh after ptb nerf
COB: Actually pretty alright still since it's 60 seconds of ruin with surveillance info. The real issue you might not have noticed is that there is a bug and it regresses even after you tap the gen without giving an indication it might also happen with overcharge or it happens only with overcharge not sure
Dying Light: Pretty bad unless you happen to be chasing non obsession always and get lots of hooks quick
Gift of Pain: Might combo with thana a little too well since it's a strong 16% ignoring other injured survs and if survivors heal to counter thana they heal slower too. If they don't heal against a competent killer they will be at risk of having too short of a chase and can't go for unhooks.
If you're not going against an insanely strong killer and people are actually doing gens immediately you will still pop 2-3 gens first chase before any slowdown is really going to start showing itself. The problem is that people simply don't do gens and generally your teammates are going to be very bad and stealth a lot.
I think a lot of the gen slowdown could be tweaked some since combined they can be a little oppressive w/ new gen times + the value of the remaining gen regression increasing with the time worked vs % gained being way worse.
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If you lose to a baby killer what do you think that makes you for losing to said baby killer?
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remember this has only been since the update. hence the reason im here in this chat
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do yall ever think that if a brand new killer is getting 4k's on survivors that have upwards of 1k, 2k and 3k hours they might be buffed a little too much? maybe the answer isnt that the 3k hour player doesnt know how to play? like come on. be serious
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I can see your confusion here, you hide the entire match and get hatch after your team dies trying to do the objective. Nothing has changed for you since the update so you can't understand why people think this way about how the recent overall killer buffs on top of nerfing the 'default' survivor loadout at the same time creates an unwinnable scenario for normal players. This thread is more for the people who run the killer AND do objectives.
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What is this even supposed to be mean? I run m1 killers for 1-2 mins unless the map is dead and s tiers for much longer than the average joe while being a gen jockey otherwise. Have I been winning less after the update due to teammates not doing gens and going down sooner? Sure but that's purely because of solo queue just as before you could run the killer forever and have no gens pop. Have you yet to get a match where all 4 teammates can loop and do gens because it's rather obvious when the last gen pops with the killer only having 5-6 hooks even running these "op" slowdown builds because survivor is still the stronger role against almost every killer if people have a brain.
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Just don't listen at them, who says that you're a baby survivor if you can't loop killer better than before is brainless and unable to reason putting himself in the shoes of both sides.
(I'm talking as a red-rank survivor and killer) Killers are incredibly easy now, because of the new update on gens repairing duration.
If you do some calculations, you'll get that no one is so stupid to not understand that camping is worth now.
You got 50 seconds more to do whatever you want, and if you get a survivor in the early game and you camp it, It's a free kill.
Even with 2 gens left, a killer can manage the rest of the game, and the new little buffs on kicking, Thanato, etc. helps who had a bit more difficult in chasing.
It's no pleasant at all to play in SoloQ now, that's why I stop to play DBD.
If you want to have some fun, just go in SWF, that's the only way.
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If you're losing to "baby" Killers, you and your team are the "babies"
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That is not my experience. I play against Thana almost every game, but its just makes it boring sometimes, not impossible.
Noone uses pop anymore, i saw ruin once and i had no game where dms was annoying. Eruption can be strong bc i have no way to tell, when someones get downed. Pain res doesnt matter really bc the killer does not find the gen most of the time. Well, i had a survivor, who wanted to counter pain res, and 99ed the gen, while i was slugged next to it. It lost us a gen and the game and made no sense.
And that brings me to the real problem. Teammates. They quit really often. Mostly after the first down. I had one guy dc on first down, when we only had 2 gens left. Its the mindset of the player: oh killer buff, it is so hard, i give up. Its so annoying.
I agree that camping needs to be nerfed and tunneling is still a problem, but in most cases, survivor leave before the killer does anything like that.
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Totally agree. Often in the games I lose is not caused by resent patch, but because of teammates giving up. Playing 2-3 survivors with 5 gens left, is near impossible to win.
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"Complains about losing to bad or baby killers" if there that bad an your losing to them why would you want to play people who are good? Even with the minor buffs to killer the game is fundamentally the same an a baby killer shouldn't even understand how to pressure, counter loop or even understand how to properly play to win het from what this post saying makes it seem like it's a solo Q problem which has always been a thing regardless of your a baby losing to babies.
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Oh stop over reacting and I wish survivors just said "GG" to me when I clearly had a good game with them but that never happened lol
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In my opinion there needs to be done some survivor buffs or nerf some anti looping killers...
Anti looping is everywhere despite that 80% of the maps have been modernised to make looping harder and mind gaming easier...
It's got to be reduced..
Oni drifting,Billy,Blight,Deathslinger,Huntress,Bubba etc..just tone it down a bit.
That or we remove Nurse,it's a fair trade imo.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
"i miss facing good killers!! killers with good mind games, who knew how to pressure gens, and when you lost to them you could say "he played really well. ggs"
This is the section where you request stronger opponents. I know written recall is not everyone's strong suit, but come on. You wrote the thing.
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you dont understand my post lol. the complaint is because i shouldnt be losing to killers who dont really know what they are doing but yet they are being carried by gen slow down and perks. thats the whole point. the quality of killers i go against is decreasing because the game is so easy for killer now, baby killers are getting artificially inflated mmr scores and stomping on survivors who have been playing for way longer. when i said i miss going against good killers, i meant that i miss losing because i got ouplayed and not because their build was just unable to be countered
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Can you run a baby killer for more than a minute and still win the game?
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people can argue on this all day. but at the end of the day, the player count doesnt lie. the queue times dont lie. its very clear to see that the MAJORITY of players are upset with the patch and therefore some kind of change needs to happen. otherwise killer queue times are going to get longer and longer as less people are going to want to put up with how absolutely brutal it feels to play survivor right now
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Seems like a lot of people here are bad-faithing what OP is saying and being intentionally obtuse at the issue they're bringing forward:
My perspective:
I'm a casual survivor main; by that I mean is I only started playing this game in the last year or so. I'm not bringing up where I think I am "skill-level" because a some people seem to put a lot of weight in that, even though it frankly doesn't matter in what is essentially a "scary" party game:
I play solo-q survivor and all my games (except 1) since the the patch released have been boring/bad:
Not because of teammates! I haven't had a single DC'd teammate; whenever I spot a teammate they're usually on gens; and the only "issue" is that they all drop their gens to come rescue me / a teammate on hook because no one's really running Kindred (only one game). If anything teammate survivors are being more altruistic than ever; which is really wholesome and nice, tbh. If completely pointless because we're not getting out of there alive.
The issue is that during a chase; I don't have time to recover because the speed boost when hit got nerfed; and if I'm in a deadzone, it can't even take me to a viable loop; and killers are catching up too quickly - my character feels so slow in comparison. It feels pointless, and frustrating; maybe that's something I have to get used to but frankly I don't want to - I don't want to live and breathe this game to figure out all the tricks I need to just complete the objective; I want a fun game I can chill with. I think a lot of survivors are in the same boat.
I haven't noticed Killers mind-gaming either (only that one beautiful demo did on my one fun match; still died but very worth it); and the majority of my games multiple people are on death hook at four gens. Just because it's easy to down someone, kick the gen they were working on (not to mention any other slow downs they might have), and simply proxy camp / wait for them to be rescued and trade.
Survivors simply don't have enough TIME to punish bad/boring Killer game play - the trade off for camping/tunnelling at 4/5 gens used to be that, in a coordinated team, you just did gens and the Killer got maybe two kills. The Killers now just need maybe a hit and one down, and with a Thana+Pain Rez; that downed survivor is already at second stage between the Survivor having to heal and someone trying to crank out the last 30 seconds on a gen, finding out the Killer is camping, and attempting to rescue - but probably at best only to trade. That game is already lost because Survivors simply can't do gens fast enough; in between trading, healing, totems (if needed), chases and evading, and probably the Killer's slow downs and gen kicks. This has happened twice in my last few games (Oni and Nurse); and it's a "strat" that is FAR too easy to do, and guarantees a win.
There simply isn't a lot of ability for a survivor team to reset after an altercation with the Killer. I'm not expecting to win easily and I don't want to win easily; that's just not fun and it's forgettable. I do want to have a chance to survive though. That's why a lot of people say when a Killer camps/tunnels hard it's just not very fun because it feels like you'll only be getting out of there alive if you have good teammates (running the killer for 5 minutes doesn't mean anything if they're not doing gens and can't take hits for you on the way to the exit gate). As in, it's not up to YOU if you survive or not. A lot of the games after this patch feel the same way - as in there's really nothing I can do to get out of this match alive; which is the entire point of playing survivor (to SURVIVE) so playing is just kind of worthless and pointless and fustrating.
I do think Survivors were a little overtuned before this patch; but the devs have really just knocked the pendulam all the way to the other side here. There were simply too many buffs for Killers while Survivors were hit with nerfs; and they released it all in one patch, which meant it hit HARD. (5 second base-kit BT is nice but frankly does nothing when the killer is right there ((which they usually are because there's no benefit in moving far from the hook atm)))
I've never really ran meta-builds, and I usually don't run exhaustion perks (love aura-reading perks and heals: detective's hunch, clairvoyance, and inner healing are chefs kiss) but the only time I did run meta was when I was tired of getting slugged or tunneled. I'm bringing this up because there isn't any build atm to fall back on that will allow me to feel like I'm giving myself the best chance to survive (at least not one I have access to with my limited roster); which is what I did if the games felt rough but I still wanted to play ---- so, since I don't have that, I don't want to play as the game is right now. I know I'm not alone in that; it's probably, the reason survivor queue times are near instant, even though I'm playing in the evenings/late night and those have always been, at least, 5 min queues for me.
TL:DR - playing Survivor isn't fun, feels pointless and is fustrating; there's a lack of player impact/agency in the current tuning of the game; killers are very over-tuned so winning isn't a challenge; and survivors (specfically solo-q survivors) need the stars to align to simply make it down to the last gen, meaning winning feels impossible;
P.S. I will not be respond to "criticism" about my personal opinion on the state of the game; if my opinion annoys you, simply scroll away; I won't argue with random people; I'm posting this on a public forum as it's the only way to give feedback to the people that make the game;
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If my teammates are gen jockeys as they're supposed to be since that's the entire objective of the game I will win
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less looping is now possible cause bhvr changed the regular speed looping happens at.
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very well written. im not the best at wording things so im sure thats where all the hate is coming from lol. you said it much better than i could. i would like to clarify that the only reason i felt the need to include my "rank" and hours in the game is because ive found in the past people didnt take my game knowledge seriously if not included :)
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Which won't happen because if you are going against baby killers it also means you have baby teammates, so good luck with that. I am tired of people going "If YoU aRe GoInG aGaiNsT BaBy KiLlErs WhAt DoEs ThAt Say AbOuT yOu?" like, it says that I lost so much that my MMR is now very low or that simply matchmaking put me with them. I have over 2k hours in this game and, while I don't see myself as the best, I still know how to loop, but sometimes I make mistakes, anyone can, but it doesn't matter, because if my teammates are not good, then nothing will happen in that time. So yeah, you CAN still go against baby killers even if you are a good survivor, it's just that now killers have it easier even when they play poorly.
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stealth do exists, if you don't know anything but looping, you are still a baby survivor.
ultimately you can tank MMR by utilizing hatches if you care about it that much, so there is really no counter argument against "you are also the baby survivor".
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what you said makes 0 sense
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I have unironically seen a 7.5k hours player that sucked. I think this obsession over how many hours people have is kinda useless. For one reason or another, some people just dont dont improve after a certain skill level, or even get worse with time.
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So is this a problem with the killer buffs or solo queue/mmr in general?
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I used to lose 2-3 gens on the first chase as pig, that was pretty common for an M1 killer.
Now I often get 2-3 hooks before the first gen. It might be a factor that que times take too long so MMr might be sending me babies, although I mostly do get P10s in the lobby who know how to fake windows etc. and just the fact that killer ques used to be instant and now take longer than survivor ques used to
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This is an issue with soloq. The killer buffs are good, but it doesn't help that soloq has been left behind yet again
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since the patch dropped I keep losing to 300-400hours killers and I’m a 2.2k hours survivor main.
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Your logic is flawed.
If you run the killer, the slowdowns mean little. What slowdowns? Thana, that is only really good on Legion, a killer that cannot down you with their power in a purely 1v1 situation?
Overcharge/CoB? A perk that requires the killer to drop chase to kick a gen? Or Pain Res, the perk that requires you to go down. Oh, maybe Pentimento, a perk that literally does NOTHING unless you decide to do totems, which means you screwed up.
On their own, the upped gen times mean little. An extra 50 seconds is nasty, but since everyone ran Pop/Ruin when the gens were 80, you had far more than just an extra 50 seconds to do.
If you are losing to "baby" killers, you either suck or your team sucks.
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The game forces to actually play as survivor now, which is good, though I see why it worries you, don't worry, either try to change your gameplay or wait till next balance patch that will probably nerf killers.
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ive actually put some thought into this since posting and i dont think killers specifically need a nerf, its more the combination of the gen times with all the slow down perks thats more of an issue. and people have made really good points about solo q needing some form of a communication buff. i like the ping idea. something like what vhs currently has.
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since posting ive noticed games are pretty much the same when played in a swf. maybe a little more thought about whether or not you can make the distance from one loop to the next after taking a hit. so ive come to the conclusion solo q just sucks xD
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Haven't met a killer yet who didn't run thana paired with either jolt, DMS or pop.
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The killer buffs are barely noticeable. You can still chain pallets. The drama is ridiculous on you survivor mains. An extra 10 seconds to gens, bring prove thyself and overzealous.
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i thought bringing the same perks every game was frowned upon.... the reason for the perk overhaul in the first place? makes games boring and predictable? and dont call me a survivor main i play both thanks. im here speaking on game issues as a player of the game. not to be on a "side"
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exactly. the unpredictability of survivor builds has been quite refreshing in comparison. killers clearly still have their meta builds
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huh? probably you don't know game machanics then, git gud.
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This is a lie.
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it seems that you never were a good survivor and only relied on Dead hard to survive...
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i didnt use dead hard. thanks for assuming you know me tho. or maybe you read that already and youre just here to be troll
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and again. not one complaint in my post was about any of the nerfed survivor perks. not once have you seen me cry for the devs to bring back dead hard so what makes you think that i ever needed? i love how someone has a complaint and because that complain is about a SURVIVOR experience, killers think its because of dead hard. frankly im sick of hearing about dead hard. i hope dead hard stays dead so i never have to hear people cry about it anymore. anything else you wanted?
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I think the problem is that the new killer meta is very obvious whereas Survivors need to adapt now. Usually it was the other way round (surv meta being DS, DH etc and killers needed tome to think of new stuff).
Give it time.
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Sorry, but you are wrong. You got adepts with killer you did not play before, because you are matched with new or low skilled survivors in that case, because the mmr for these killers is not the same as for killer you play with. But you know much more than the survivors you are facing about the game, so you are at an advantage and win with adepts. I tried to get the adept on some killers i played with some months and it was not easier for me since the update, because the people I am matched against are not new to the game and on my skilllevel or above.
It is always like that. You can get the adepts way easier, when the Killer is new or you never played them before.
And then the second thing, I read some complaints about bad killers or survivors. You all seem to forget that there is a crossover with AoT right now which only purpose is to gain new players. So yeah, there are some new players in the game. And because of the mmr, you might be matched with them. Teach them some things about the game, have fun and move on the next match.
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