Your opinion on killer roles like overwatch and adavanced balancing
I thought about the recent update and the speedup for killers and came to the conclusion that the distribution is not fair.
On the one hand killers like Trapper need it very much and on the other hand killers like Nurse or Blight getting even stronger and even on an other hand Hillbilly gets nearly nothing from it at all.
I thought about this system and I will explain it further under the picture:
We could revert the killer sped up and instead assign killers groups. We have this system already (all true ranged killers move at 110%) but it is very hidden and not developed enough.
As you can see above the Class "Chaser" moves at normal speed and has this 10% sped up that is now active for everyone. We could assign this group all basic killers with bad/basic abilities to give them a small help without stronger killers benefiting from it.
The Class "Ranged "is the class we already have in the game and it would just stay the same as before.
The Class "Special" is for killers that have very unique powers and dont need sped up like the more basic killers. Killers in this class will just stay like they are now just without the 10% sped up on killer actions.
As you just read there is no change at all to most killers just buffs to killers in the Class "Chaser" because the need them.
Pros:
- Needed Buffs can be assigned to a role instead of buffing all killers at once especially those who dont need any help.
- Balancing can be linked to a role e.g. if in the future for some reason the ranged class will underperform the devs could enchance their movement speed from 110 to 112% and see if thats enough.
- No nerfs. Noone will be heartbroken that their favourite killer was once again murdered by BHVR (like Hillbilly... really BHVR pls revert it.). There are just some buffs to killers that need it and ONLY them.
- killers can be reasign in their role e.g. after a rework.
This is only an idea to discuss and something we could ask the devs to implement. Maybe we could do a cooperation with them and help some weaker killers without helping the strongest one.
If I may share how I would put the killers together it would be this way:
Chaser:
Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Shape, Doctor, Cannibal, Nightmare, Pig, Clown, Legion, Ghost Face, Onryo
Ranged:
Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster,
Special:
Nurse, Hag, Spirit, Demogorgon, Plague, Oni, Executioner, Blight, Twins, Nemesis, Cenobite, Artist, Dredge
What do you think? What would be your role distribution. Have you an idea for a fourth role I did not think about?
Comments
-
i think the idea is not bad and could help with the balancing just your role distribution is a bit off for me.
why is artist not a range killer and plague nemi and phead look a bit strange between the other much faster killer but that a personal thing i guess
2 -
artist is not ranged because she runs at 115%, thats how BHVR desided I did infact not change any role just tried to summ them up like they are now!
Artists power is infact more like a mix of a hag-trap with Nemesis tentacle.
Plague, Nemi and "phead" (both p-heads) have very strong special abilities and dont belong into the basic chase pool in my opinion.
2 -
I think what will happen eventually is, now that the overall base game and perk changes are out, the devs are going to be monitoring how individual killers fare under the new systems and will tweak them individually on a case by case basis as needed. For instance, the new Thanatophobia is ok as is but might be problematic on Legion who got a lot of extra benefit from its buff plus the 10 second base game slowdown. So they may end up wanting to tinker with Legion slightly to keep the underlying Thana as it currently is but somewhat dull its impact on Legion specifically.
1 -
You think? I main killer and played not a lot against Legion but what I saw is Legion is not a strong killer who needs a nerf but its absolutly unfun to play against legion. I pick most killers but hag and basement-bubba above legion at any day.
If they would add this system they could assign Legion to the specialist role and he will lose his bonus on action speeds.
0 -
Legion doesn’t need a “nerf”, like you said they’re not a strong killer. But a lot of people want them to get a revamp of some sort. (I don’t care either way on that personally. 🤷♂️)
1 -
I am immediately against literally any idea that references that horrible mismanaged game. It is fine how it is now, and I hope our developers NEVER take inspiration from Blizzard in literally any aspect. Except maybe the 6 years too late f2p.
1 -
make trickster 115 k thanks bye
0 -
I don't even think he needs a speed buff.
He's already oppressive in 1v1 and can destroy survivors in certain loops. He needs a rework IMO because it's really not fun for either side.
1 -
The game has been in need of some sort of categorization for killers (and potentially perks) for a while now.
So yes, something to this effect would be appreciated.
2 -
I dont want to be rude or anything. But that is a very stupid mindset and with that mindset horrible wars happened. please be open minded... for your own sake atleast.
1 -
I had a similar idea but it was more designed to label the characters and help design ritual/archive challenges:
Stealth: Pig, Freddy, Wraith, Myers, etc.
Mobility: Hillbilly, Blight, Nurse, etc.
Environmental: Trapper, Plague, Pinhead, Pyramid Head, Hag, etc.
Hunter (killers with powers to find survivors faster and/or end chases faster): Huntress, Clown, Doctor, Trickster, etc.
1 -
No, wars happen because nobody learns from the sentiment that history repeats itself. Overwatch developers have consistently made mistake after mistake, there is nothing of value to emulate. Behavior are Rockstars by comparison and I refuse to criticize them for minor difficulties that the community holds them to because it could be SO much worse and they at least seem to be genuinely trying. People are just taking have a good team for granted just because they do not like a particular decision.
I am quite open minded, but I have already been heavily invested in that train wreck and if anything like that vaguely happens to DbD I am going to leave.
0 -
I don't think they necessarily need to be classed. I think the devs just need to look at each killer individually and fine tune their cooldowns & durations to reflect what the killer can do in chase and how they can apply map pressure as a whole.
Realistically, we're aiming for all killers being equally competent, but providing vastly different gameplay experiences as both killer and survivor. As you've noted, that can't really be achieved when killers are treated the same with regards to 50% of their kit.
0 -
the problem with your approach would be the inconsistancy between all killers AND the salt of people who main a specific killer and think that their killer is underbuffed. Meyers mains would cry in forums that Freddy mains have a 5% faster recovery animation and so on and on the other hand it would always feel weird to switch between killer especially M1 killer who feel the same from gameplay but everyone has individual numbers.
Grouping all m1 killers and buffing this group by the same amount would not result in a perfect solution but it could give overall stability to killer that feel the same in a chase. IMO.
0 -
I guess I would need to see my suggestion in application to agree with you. We can already experience different buffs with add-ons and perks (i.e. Pallet Destructor Wraith and STBFL), so i'm not entirely convinced it would feel jarring to switch between.
To borrow your Overwatch reference, players can switch between many different characters whose guns fire in many different ways. A player might start out as
McCree, then find themself switching to Hanzo and then Pharrah in a single round. These three characters have weapons that fire at very different rates of speed (one is also hitscan, while the other two are projectile), and players are adapting to them at the drop of a hat in a tense competitive setting.I would imagine it is far easier to acclimate one's self to their killers respective buffs when only playing one per trial.
0 -
Sorry I cant agree with your overwatch reference at all!
You are talking about characters with completly different core mechanics like Hanzo or Pharah, but we already have killers with completly different core mechanics and it is EASY to switch between them BECAUSE they are SOO different. But pick a game where you shoot a AK47 one game is hitscan (csgo) the other game is with projectile and bulletdrop (e.g. tarkov): eventhough this weapons are the same, and do kinda the same people who are pro in one of those game would be not as good in the other because they would confuse those tiny differences like bullet drop etc.
Thats why I have no problem to main artist and nurse at the same time, BUT equiping shadowborn on Nurse for a few games and then unequiping it feels like being crippeled.
Those tiny differences 5% here 10% there will destoy your muscle memory and confuse you.
And like I said knowing this compunity for >6 years: people will be salty that their killer does not get the same buff as the other eventhough they are kinda the same.
0 -
I would rather every killer is regarded as a "class" of their own, especially when the killer is the only player on that team. Assigning them an arbitrary class feels unnecessary when, for example, the two "trap killers" that would land in the same class play and perform very differently already.
0 -
See this falls apart cause well killers in these groupings arent the same level like out of slinger trickster and huntress 2 badly need to be looked at and 1 is almost perfect.
Also the special category is way way too broad it feels like you just threw every killer considered strong in there without looking where they fit best. Billy fits into the special a lot better than some of the other ones considering he has one of the most versitile power and is one of the killers where using your power correctly is extremely important yet he is lumped into chaser meanwhile most killers designed to chase like Pyramid Nemmy or Pin are in special. A system like that just doest work as very few killers are comparably enough in use case and balancing to be paired into a group that would be balanced as a group.
Also even in overwatch they barely ever balance based around tanks as a whole and the main reason those groupings exists is because of the 2-2-2 or in overwatch 2 2-1-2 formatting of teams.
If there was roles it would have to be specified to the point of oblivion where most roles have 2 maybe 3 killers. Take say a trap role even then killers who are logically in the same role Trapper and Hag are at 2 ends of the balancing.
The only reason or way a role system would make any sense is to try and help new players find more killers simalar to one they have. For example they like Nemesis and see within the same category of Damaging Chasers there is Pyramid Head so they then buy and start playing Pyramid Head.
1 -
as you can see above those two trap killers are NOT in the same class. and if you read everything you should know that BHVR already has a class system but in the moment there are only 2 classes Ranged killers with 110% speed and all other with exeption for hag, nurse and spirit because they are too powerfull to be 115% fast.
0 -
If that's your classification method, then I'm sorry to say that that's very shaky at best. Legion was 110% when they released, in case you didn't know. Plague could be argued to be a ranged killer, yet is 115%. Likewise, Artist is most definitely ranged and also has 115% speed.
0 -
I said in the original post that I group them to my opinion and not what it should be. At the end BHVR will decide everything either way.
But I will defend my opinion!
Also the special category is way way too broad it feels like you just threw every killer considered strong in there without looking where they fit best.
Yes! But ask your self why! I dont want to overcomplicate anything! In the contrary to you I dont try to fix every killer because I dont think that me or you know anything the best. Everything I told here is already in the game I just destributed it more fairly and instead of buffing every killer at once I grouped the weaker one and buffed them. All killers in the Chaser role need to do the same: loop behind and hope for mistake. Every killer in special category is special and can ignore a loop in a efficient way. But at the end YES the strong killers are in the special group BECAUSE they should NOT be buffed! The only reason there are 3 groups is because bhvr already inveted the ranged class and gave all true ranged killers (who can shot while moving and down a survivor without any gimmic like plague fountain) 110% speed. I could have also made just 2 classes with "Chaser" and "Special" and all ranged would go into special because they also dont need this 10% buff.
0 -
Legion was also released unstopable, in case you didn't know. SO mistakes are common in BHVR. Plague and Artist are not ranged killers because they do not have the main criteria for being ranged: Being able to down a survivor with a ranged attack from moving while not requiring any special trigger! Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster can all do exactly that. Plague needs a fountain to down and Artist is a trapper killer and not ranged, while she is placing the bird you are free to run to the site and this placed bird will never hit you (she will smack you with her hand though because you got zoned). If you want a true ranged killer that is not considered one then its Nurse! Nurse shots her self at the survivor and fulfills more the category of ranged killers.
1 -
Sorry what? Artist can and will down with consecutive crow hits? Did you forget she can launch them? What you're saying is like saying Trapper is not a trapping killer because he more often than not will down with regular machete hits opposed to his eponymous traps.
1 -
If any killer thats considered good is being put in one class then that entirely undermines the point of having classes you might aswell just rename the classes Bad Mediocore and Good. Classes just dont belong in DBD.
0 -
Dude! I main artist and I dont remember losing with her. If you think she is a ranged killer then you dont know how to play Artist! Artist is a trap killer! With one bird I trap 2-3 loops at once and chase the survivor when he tries to go anywhere I trapped I hit him and he gets swarmed by crows now I can cut the current loop in half with the next crow and if the survivor passes the cut he gets hit and if he doest I smack him.
She is Trap-Killer>>>Ranged-Killer.
Like I said: In an open field with no loop or anything at all just one survivor and one killer Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster can down you with their ranged attack but there is no way a human being with average IQ gets hit by a crow in a open field! Artist can not reaction shot you so she is not ranged.
0 -
dude! What is your point? Read my original post! Literaly my first sentence! THATS WHY THERE ARE CLASSES! Because the M1 killers need a buff. You need 2h time to understand what I wrote in my first sentence gz.
EDIT: Because we have no classes this killer buff who is needed for M1 killers also buffed S and A Tier killers for no reason. Everyone plays S and A tier anyway! Its like giving everyone in the world 1Mio$ but because of that an inflations starts and everything gets expensive and at the end people who had nothing will stay with nothing -> in our case if trapper gets the buff but also nurse why would I play trapper if nurse is even stronger now. Thats the mindset of most people -> strongest killer to win more often
0 -
Even if I humour you there, that would still make her more of a zoning killer rather than a trapping killer. Still, the fact alone that she can damage a survivor from across the map with an aimed shot, even if very unlikely, still makes her ranged.
0 -
I think we are confused about words here!
Artists ability is a ranged ability and will damage you on distance with it. yes. But she is not a ranged killer category! Her playstyle is not quick shots, style shots or anything, she traps stuff with her crows. And if would bet you 1 mio dollar to not getting hit by a bird from me you would win 1 mio dollar because in a chase you can just deside not to run into the bird path and instead getting smacked in melee. Every bird hit in a chase is because the survivor crossed into the bird path on their own.
And I can prove you it with a logical example so you can finaly accept it:
Answer this 2 questions:
Question 1: is a shotgun a ranged weapon?
A) Yes B) No
Question 2: What is a shotgun that is combined with a tripwire that is placed in a way it triggers when someone enters a door?
A) a trap (a ranged trap if you want) B) just ranged weapon
Artist has some tripwired shotguns. case closed.
btw every trapping killer is a zoning killer so this are just names for the same thing at the end.
0 -
Thing is buffs like pallet breaking speed do only apply to some killers mostly. When was the last time you saw a nurse break a pallet. Most times blight breaks a pallet is with his power. The best way to balance the game is to drumroll please.... just balance killers individually. This patch was because kill rates AS A WHOLE were too low. Not just trappers and sadakos they though the general kill rate was too low so they buffed killers as a whole. Whether that was a good descision or not is still up in the air but BHVR did exactly what they sought to accomplish with this patch.
If trapper isnt doing great its because of his power not because he breaks pallets at the same speed. Breaking pallets faster for underperforming killers is just a bandaid fix and doesnt adress the real reason killers are weak. Eventually their power will be so neglected cause they keep buffing other aspects that the way they will be played is by ignoring the existance of their power. Killers arent bad because they dont break pallets faster than other killers they are bad cause they have ######### powers that needs buffs or reworks.
0 -
pallet breaking? ... are you kidding me?... Have you read the patchnotes?... faster Pallet breaking for all killers is not the reason for this post mate. please read the patch notes.
0 -
Sorry if I dont feel like typing out half of the patchnotes in a comment. The speed boost after hit is the only one that is really relevant towards the strongest killers. Blight and Nurse both have fatigues making the weapon cleaning useless and ignore pallets largely. Cleaning animation and pallet breaks mostly only benefit m1 killers with little antiloop or killer where holding W and predropping is their main counter who make up the majority of the bottom tier.
0 -
I actually really like this idea. Honestly I never thought about having killers be in certain classes but it definately makes sense and would make some updates, changes, or patches more fair in some departments. I like the three categories, but perhaps the SPECIAL one could be broken down further, since some of them can use their abilities at a loop to catch up to the survivor (a.k.a. Demos Shred ability) but I don't think it would really matter because their speed would stay the same as those in the SPECIAL category anyway.
1 -
No, I don't think such games needs "classes" to a lone player.
I mean... Why even? xD
0
