Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Hard pill to swallow
But no matter what BHVR does some killers are going to camp and tunnel. No matter what you tell them to do or changes to make it will still happen. People wanted BT to be basekit to stop tunneling/camping. It still happened. Whatever they come with next it'll still happen. It won't ever stop. Just take the L and move on or hope you have a somewhat decent team to help.
Comments
-
True, not all people will be dissuaded from the kind of tunneling, camping or slugging that makes the game unfun for the other people in the match. - However, while it's impossible to make everyone stop doing it, it should be possible to make it the exception. At the moment, it seems so prevalent and wide spread that I have a hard time believing it's not detrimental to the overall game health.
6 -
Pretty much they could put in 10 things to stop camping and tunneling but at the end of the day if the killer wants to camp and tunnel they will even if it means they get zero BP, the best outcome they can try to get is if a killer is camping they can't down more then one person to give survivors a chance. So even if its Bubba after he hits one survivor his chainsaw will stop along the other survivors to get away and if the hooked survivor took the hit with BT then both should get away.
0 -
They were camping and tunneling before the changes as well
1 -
That is my point. With or without incentive they will tunnel. They can make it as ineffective and lock killers out of their powers completely, they will still tunnel. My point isn't about how to make it ineffective or how to "fix it" my point is just simply no matter what BHVR does some killers will simply just camp and tunnel. Nothing is going to stop it. Bad killers will be bad killers.
0 -
Tunneling is harder to combat but camping has a super easy thing that dbd could introduce if they didnt want it, and they tried previously.
"If a killer is within x meters of a hook the struggle timer is paused/reduced" They took this out because survivors exploited it by getting chased around the hook but they could include something like "and another (non-dying/non-hooked) survivor is not within x meters"
1 -
Off the Record disagrees with you
0 -
No, but there are certainly changes that can be made to both dissuade these playstyles and incentivize others. Tunneling and camping may always exist, but they don't have to remain effective strategies for victory or kills.
1 -
OK then, but at least let's stop pretending they did it because of DH and let's make the survivor experience not an absolute snoozefedr of a grind again.
0 -
There was a very long period of time (years) where tunneling and camping wasn't the meta. Yes it will still probably always be a thing, but BHVR can definitely make changes to the game that reduce the frequency back to where it's an acceptable level again. It only became meta about a year ago
1 -
They camped and tunneled because they were either in a bad spot and needed to win or they were just bad at playing killer (which is 90% of the time it feels like)
0 -
With all due respect, they camped and tunnelled because it was easy. Now it's even easier it's exploded more than ever despite the fact that the changes were to discourage it. Go figure.
4 -
Just FYI the aggregate site I’m following is showing BBQ and Chili still being used quite a lot (about 25-30% of matches). Which isn’t surprising to me since there were a lot of people who were using it because they like the aura it gives and to them the bloodpoints were a nice bonus but not the main reason they ran it.
So the number of people using it went down a bit but it’s still popular.
0 -
They are not saying we shouldn't try to come up with a way to combat camping and tunneling just that no matter what gets put in place some players will still camp and tunnel because that's just how they want to play, so when the time comes and things are put in place to combat camping and tunneling survivors have to face the fact at some point that some players out there that will be dicks and camp and tunnel and they will have to take the L and move on to the next match. It will suck for the survivor but there is nothing more they can do if things are put in place to combat camping and tunneling.
0 -
That's not true, if tunneling and camping were made so ridiculously hard that they were near impossible to do then killers would have no choice but to play the game without doing them. My suggestion is make every hook act like cage of atonement. Here I'll talk you through it.
The killer runs after the survivor, downs them, and hooks them. When they get hooked they instantly disappear and appear on another side of the map, from that point until the point of them either dying or getting unhooked the other survivors have a chance to get them out of the cage. If by some miracle the killer happens to find them first(because remember he can't see the cage until he's physically near it) then and only then can he camp. But at that point it's hardly the killers fault that the other survivors were too lazy and stupid to get their teammate out.
One other thing, once this change is implemented ALL anti-camping perks are removed from the game.
0 -
To be fair, I don't run BT anymore and at least if I get tunneled, I have a chance to make it to a pallet now. That is a pretty well-rounded change in my play that I appreciate them adding.
I still think there needs to be a built-in way for teammates to counter the tunnel/face-camp.
Check out my method,
0 -
So a killer shouldn't be allowed to hit you after you've been unhooked... Even when the survivors are crowding the hook right after killer hooks them? What do you want killer to do, give you a freebie? Killers are going to do what they want and you all just need to start accepting the fact like the rest of us.
0 -
BHVR can literally change the win condition of the game so that camping and tunneling are 100% not viable.
1 -
I posted an idea awhile back to address tunneling, though camping isn't covered.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/333194/unusual-suggestion-to-address-tunneling-off-hook-vs-endurance-solutions-lets-get-the-entity-involv#latest
0 -
I've been saying change hooks to cages of attunement for the longest time. It's not as if its impossible to do as the mechanic is already there and it's a guaranteed way to solve the problem. Sure it will mean PH needs a rework to make using him feel unique again but that's a small price to pay imo.
2 -
Finally somebody that gets it xD
0 -
Some people are still going to camp and tunnel. That won't change it
0 -
I've actually thought about it, and he won't need a rework, because the real benefit he gets from CoA is that he doesn't have to walk anywhere to put them in the cage, that will still hold true even if every hook works like CoA.
0 -
Say they tested your idea how are you going to buff killers like hag, trapper and a few others that there whole playstyle is based on setting up a web of traps around a 3 gen and hooking a survivor inside the 3 gen so they can patrol the gens plus the hooked survivor or will the hooked survivor get moved across the map allowing them to be healed fully before they come back to try and finish a gen?
0 -
It's really not that hard to get it but to many people are focused on what buff/change they could do for survivors to fix it with out realizing that some people will still camp no matter what why because they want to, some ideas as good as they might seem will punish/nerf some killers and if it was a easy fix like people claim why haven't they put it in the game already?
0 -
Good point. I agree
1 -
There's nothing to correct there. Their traps are still in place, let's talk this through ok? Let's say I'm playing hag(who is one of my fav killers btw). And I set up traps around my 3gen right? Now survivors come and I down some and hook em. So they disappear and go across the map. That right there is them burning their time, I don't have to leave my 3 gen, in fact staying on my 3gen is the best strat, because I'm making survivors burn resources and time getting their friends off the hook while I sit in my comfy 3 gen and pick them off. The more they come, they more I down them and they disappear and have to run all the way back. By the end they would have lost if they don't know how to play it correctly. So it's actually to the benefit of the killer to play this way.
As a side note with hag you don't even have to sit on the 3 gen, you can go and chase and down survivors, then when they spring your traps just port back.
0 -
Hag is not the best in chases you need to use her traps while you chase, by letting them go across the map your letting them heal up and come back to try and do a gen if the survivors mess up and put themselves into a 3 gen they shouldn't get a free pass to heal up and come back, they messed up and put themselves in a 3 gen the killer should have every right to petrol the gens and the hooked survivor. If the killer set up a 3 gen same thing the killer had to give up gens to make sure they got the survivors into a 3 gen where they can apply a ######### load of pressure on them, why should killers lose the advantage they have with a 3 gen and the amount of pressure they can put on survivors.
Side note if the chase goes to far away you won't be able to port back so at some point you have to pick commit or drop chase to keep you in range to port back.
0 -
I'm not seeing any advantage lost at all. You're talking about camping as compared to chasing, caging won't change chasing, all it will do is prevent camping. And if you're trying to camp, then you're just playing toxic. And btw, hag is amazing at chases if you know how to utilize her traps, because unlike other trappers her traps get put down very quickly she can lock out a lot of loops.
0 -
So now it's toxic to patrol/camp when you have a 3 gen setup be it the survivors fault or the killer planned for the 3 gen at the start now that's some entitled survivor right there lets not forget the devs have said camping is a valid start, the killer is just making the most out of a 3 gen with a survivor hooked in the middle why would the killer go anywhere else apart from checking the gens and the hook, what would you like them to do go stand in a corner and count to 10 so you can unhook a survivor even though the survivors messed up and put themselves in a 3 gen.
If most of your traps if not all are in the 3 gen area why would you chase someone across the map even if you kept a couple on you that's really not enough when a survivor has half a map to use, your better of dropping chase and going back to your 3 gen where most of your traps are so when you get into a chase they are already down and ready to use.
Yer i'm done trying to explain the problems with your idea and how your giving survivors a free pass if they 3 gen themselves, if survivors end up getting themselves into a 3 gen then the killer should be able to put major pressure on them and not have survivors get a free pass to heal.
0 -
Or when they crouch to your gens and specifically leave the moment you're close enough that a teleport won't matter.
I've done this to Hags to counteract them trapping gens and doing 3 gens, they lose the 3 gen because there's 4 Survivors left, not 3 or 2. 4 Survs can brute force a 3 gen, Hag or no.
0 -
If you play it right the only thing they'll brute force is their own death.
0 -
How do you play it right, then?
0 -
First it's always been toxic to camp, that's not a statement of opinion, that's fact. Second the "dev's said camping is valid" argument doesn't work when the same devs are also the ones who consistently ruined this game, and btw I heard nothing but killers crying for like 4 years straight about dead hard and a bunch of other stuff, so don't even trying say you give a damn what the devs think, because I'm sure there are more than a dozed threads of you saying the devs don't know what they're doing when you don't like the outcome.
If most of your traps are in the 3 gen area, then you have no issues with chasing them anywhere within range, because you can just port back. And if you don't know how to set them up in a way where they will off when they're in range that's on you.
And finally the pressure is always there if you play properly, a hook design for pressure has 1 name, camping. Because there is no other hook design that brings pressure, and that hook design is flat out toxic. It wasn't a good idea on day 1, it's not a good idea now.
0 -
Simple you port in and down a survivor, then when you hook them and they disappear you reset your trap and chase a second, and every time you down one or a trap goes off in your 3 gen you repeat this process until they're all dead. And while you're doing this you look for opportunities, sometimes a survivor is too close to another and you can down and hook 2 and so on.
And I'm speaking about this without perks, because with perks you can absolutely annihilate a team, for example devour makes this process infinitely easier, you put a trap right on top of your totem, and every time they get near it you down a survivor.
0 -
So...you lose all snowball potential?
2 -
Make BT basekit 10s and slow down hook timer while around the hook and not in chase, but also give killer a BBQ light: show them the farthest away survivor who is minimum 24m away and give them +10% movement speed as long as they are moving in the last known direction and not in chase. This will make chasing and leaving the hook more worthwhile while also not shooting you in the foot for doing so and helping slower killers to traverse the map. Heck, maybe non-mobility or M1 killers could even get a +15% movement speed, just to help them on bigger maps and have them not rely on camping.
An alternative that I have seen: the basekit version lets the unhooked person lose collision entirely, ie the killer will swing right through them and might hit the unhooker. The unhooked survivor cant bodyblock at all, so all they should care about is get outta the killers reach asap. Injuring the unhooker will make switching targerts a much more attractive option, while giving everyone a fighting chance.
0 -
No, you just lose most of your camping and tunneling potential. Which if you considered that snowballing than you are part of the problem.
0 -
Hate to disagree, but survivors have solved this issue for themselves. Camping results in a match with no bloodpoints. So suicide and queue for the next match. You earn no bloodpoints while you hang, so survivors move on.
Give the hooked person a portion of bloodpoints earned while dangling from a hook. The longer they struggle the more they earn.
Or make hooks work like pyramid head's cage.
Or Add incentives to generstor speeds while killer face camps. These gen speeds could get faster and faster the longer the killer is camping without another survivor hear the hook.
There pick some of those, i bet the problem is much reduced.
2 -
Snowballing has nothing to do with camping and tunneling i.e oni i guess its toxic now to use his power to rush and down more then 1 survivor in a row before it runs out or myers when you hit tier 3 and try and down as many as you can while you have it, ######### with you high horse your sitting on right now a killer loading into the game is toxic.
0 -
"Oh I'm sorry let me just put this trap right beside this hoo- oh it's gone, never mind, looks like I'm just an M1 killer for now and forever"
0 -
Oni's specifically designed that way, just like stabbing multiple people with legion is that way by design. And by the way that's not tunneling, that's fair play. Because he doesn't wait until you take someone off the hook to down them, if he does that would be tunneling. It's not my fault nor my problem that you don't understand what tunneling and camping is.
0 -
Of course there are counter plays to traps, that's by design you learn to work around them. Or you don't and you can keep crying that you're an M1 killer.
0 -
Again they already tried that and it was abused by survivors so they scrapped it. Any fixes to camping and Tunneling has to be something that CANT be abused by both sides and dosnt punish the players who camp and tunnel in the appropriate times.
Ugh ignore that I missed the last part of your post like a idiot....I'm too used of seeing that argument on the forums lol
0 -
And not are fault you don't know what snowballing is every killer can snowball not just oni, legion and myers every killer can snowball if survivors make mistakes, if a survivor is unhooked in front of the killer before he walks away sorry that's fair game and you need to blame your teammates and not cry that it's tunneling/
0 -
Well, you don't seem to be happy with the changes. You said you get a meager 5 second BT after being unhooked. That definitely works against face camping. But I'm guessing you just want it to be longer so it's easier for you to escape a proxy camping killer, which is indeed something some killers are built for. And if you're really that concerned about it, just run Off The Record for crying out loud.
0 -
It's not tunneling if he goes after the unhooker, if he goes after the unhooked it's 100% tunneling. And if you don't understand that then we have nothing else to talk about.
0 -
If i hook a survivor and with in 5 seconds someone is unhooking them sorry that's on your teammates not me, why didn't they wait till i left to unhook them instead of doing it in my face just after i hook them, survivors need to take response ability for actions done by there team mates and not just blame the killer and scream you tunneled like you are now.
It's not that hard to wait 15 seconds for the killer to move away and be somewhere else on the map before you unhook the survivor, survivors need to stop healing under the hook cause if the killer comes back to the hook sorry that's fair game the survivors should off moved away from the hook to heal, it's just called common sense to be somewhere else if the killer is coming back then where they left you last but i guess being a entitled survivor you want killers to give free passes to survivors when they make mistakes.
0 -
@MandyTalk or another mod can we close this topic it's gone of the topic the OP started and before things get to heated
0 -
Simple, because most killers right now don't leave the hook, they just stand there and face camp. Which is the entire problem. The option of "why didn't he just wait until I left" doesn't exist.
0 -
You're the only one getting heated.
0
