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Would it be too crazy if Undying nerf was reverted?
So, old Undying used to work like this: When another Hex Totem is cleansed, that Hex transfers to an available Dull Totem, losing any Tokens in the process.
That means that hexes perks could be cleansed more than the currently 2 times, it was stupidly overpowered while paired with old ruin as it was 200% regression and didnt got disabled if a survivor was killed, making it almost impossible to cleanse it and to do gens even against bad killers, in fact undying was only nerfed due to it being busted paired with ruin, but now that ruin isnt that strong because it regresses generators 4 times slower than survivors repair speed it could be considered balanced.
Pentimento wouldnt work with because undying needs intact dull totems in order to work and pentimento needs cleansed dulls.
With this change i would too suggest to transfer the "The Auras of Survivors within 2/3/4 metres of any Dull Totem are revealed to you" to Shattered Hope so it doesnt become useless if there are no boons in the trial.
Comments
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Hmm. This are some pretty good ideas and musings. I would love to give this a try, as I always was a fan of hexes in theory, but never got much usage out of them in the current meta.
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I don't think that's a good idea. Now Undying also transfers stacks and having to cleanse anywhere between 2-5 totems to get rid of a single perk effect seems way too drastic. Imagine the pressure of 3 stacks of Devour Hope.
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I'd have to agree with this one.
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"When another Hex Totem is cleansed, that Hex transfers to an available Dull Totem, losing any Tokens in the process."
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Exactly what im saying, i wanted to try trickster's and the pallet block from blight hexes but its too much risk for low reward
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Killers have the same problems with boon totems unless killers bring in a perk then survivors can keep blessing over and over again with no limit to how times they can do it until you kill the survivor that is running the perk we/devs need to find a middle ground between the two that does not include perks.
Post edited by ausanimal on1 -
You guys need to read before commenting, it literally says "losing any Tokens in the process" thats means that if Devour hope is cleansed, all the tokens are gone, but Devour hope is still there and can gain the tokens again, so if a Devour Hope with 5 tokens is cleansed it will respawn but without the tokens so you need to gain again 3 tokens to instadown an 5 tokens to mori
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Ok. Does it take killers 20 seconds to snuff a boon totem though?
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It takes 14 seconds to lose a perk slot / hex and as killer you only have 4, survivors have 16 slots and boons can be used by anyone even if they dont waste a perk slot for it, but why are we arguing about boons again? There's enough posts about boons in this forum
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That's the thing. Hexes have this tagline of "high risk, high reward", but how things are right now, they are stupidly easy to find and it's quite literally a "high risk, low reward" thing.
During the CoH upheaval it was often suggested that killers should be able to destroy snuffed totems and I vividly remember the outcry in this threads "Nuuuu! If my perk could be rendered useless after just a few uses I would never run it!", whilst killers were living with way worse odds and realities since 2016 :)
Many hex perks could pretty much changed to global perks with some kind of kill switch, like the new Corrupt Intervention, but that would also destroy the neat idea of the totems.
One general idea that I have been suggesting for a while here every time it came up is this:
Hexes take effect immediately at the start of the trial, but they won't light up totems yet, as The Entity is supplying them with power. 1min (tweakable number, could also be 1.30min) into the trial the hexes will be transferred to any available dull totems and light up as usual.
So if the survivors were running Inner Healing, Overzealous or booning, they could very much reduce the available number of dull totems below your Hex perks and the rightmost slotted hex perks would fizzle out at this time. No matter what, this way the killer would get a guaranteed active time for their totems, while not sabotaging any of the survivors perks that interact with totems. I think that this is such an elegant solution and I wish so hard that someone at BHVR reads this and gives it a try.
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Seems okay with me.
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I dunno why we're talking about boons again. Ask ausanimal who I was responding to.
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Oh my mistake! Sorry. That would be fine then.
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If you factor in the time to find it then the amount of times you have to snuff them you could say yes and each time a killer has to find one to snuff it they are not putting any pressure on the survivors, where as boon 1 survivor can set it up while 2 do gens and 1 is in chase. With all of that one could argue that old undying could come back with a few changes like the OP is suggesting.
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It's not arguing about boons but using them as a example for why old undying could come back with a few changes like OP is talking about.
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In that case you revert the stack transfer as well, then there's literally 0 issue
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What perk would you actually run it with if it didnt keep stacks.
The only decent hex perk to use it with would be NOED
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This is a great argument to nerf boons (aka COH because Shadow Step is decent, Exponential is trash, and Dark Theory is genuinely one of the worst perks in DBD while COH remains busted) and not to bring back Old Undying.
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Hex: Blood Favour + Hex: Crow Control, Hex: Third Seal for fun and Hex: Huntress Lullaby for impossible skillchecks Doctor, it would give more opportunities for less used/weaker perks
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But old undying had a limit of 4 cleanses, circle of healing doesnt, im not saying that old undyin + ruin wasnt busted, im just saying that old undying in the current game would be balanced, plus plaything has to be cleansed 4 times to stop working and nobody complains about it, its balanced
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I will give you blood favour i guess isnt terrible.
Crowd control is worse at what it does than bamboozle or demos perk whatever they changed the name to.
Lullaby needs stacks
And i refuse to acknowledge third seal as a perk
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That's how i'm looking at it survivors can bless a totem over and over again with no limits to how many times not to add the killer has to pick do they track the boon down and snuff it or keep going with chase and leave the boon going so survivors have a place to heal with no perks or items, like someone said in this topic it takes 20 sec to bless a totem i bet it prob takes longer to find it and then snuff it just for a survivor to bless it again.
Even if they don't bring back the old version there should be a point in the middle to make it fair for each side with out one side felling OP to she other side.
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No, it wouldn't be. Why does BHVR hate hexes so much? Every one that has been strong has been nerfed. If it's a hassle for survivors to break multiple hexes, then they see how it is for killer when they have to infinitely snuff boons. Even with Shattered Hope, by the time you've snuffed 4-5 boons, it's too much time waste and you've lost the game.
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And I'm saying that one thing being busted is a good reason to nerf the busted thing, not bring back a different busted thing.
Old Undying was not healthy for the game, and until solo queue is fixed via better information and a matchmaking system that functions it will never be healthy for the game.
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You're behaving as though blood favor and haunted ground don't exist
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I'd be fine with this reversion as long as it dumped the stacks. Honestly the main reason for this nerf was Ruin, and Ruin just got beat down.
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If it takes 5 seconds to walk over to it technically yes
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Having to find and cleanse up to 5 totems was ridiculous. Definitely don't want to bring that back.
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I don't like undying as a perk, maybe in some base form but the problem with old undying is it cripples any other hex because it becomes a question of "is this going to be ridiculous if it can be transferred 3 times in a match?"
Our current hexs are probably fine with such a version but I would argue it changes a hex perks impact so heavily it would limit all future hexs. I also don't like paying a "hex tax" to make a single perk actually useful.
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I just don't think having to cleanse the same totem 5 times is a good thing.
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It would be a little wacky to say the least
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they should also get rid of the undying notification for survivor. They can just randomly run near any totem and know the killer have undying and will know the killer is running other hex perks.
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Leave my devour alone, you foul kill switched sexy beast.
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Sorry - But I don't think we need a return of any Undying + Hex combo with old undying, with the buffs killers just got a lot of survivors are struggling to do 2 - 3 gens from what I've seen, let alone fighting a possible 4/5 totems of whatever hex the killer equips.
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I acknowledged blood favour isnt terrible but it isnt go out of your way to find it strong as for haunted ground what perk are you using to bait them into it without ruin, the only 2 hexes im taking a chance on are lullaby devour and noed.
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It was a hex that had to be cleansed 5 times on top of giving the killer full arua reading on all of bones making it impossible to cleanse or bless against anything with good mobility . Yes it is too much and I was honestly baffled it's design made it to live on the same patch as blight.
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With all the slowdowns killers just got I don’t think we need another one.
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Hmm, yeah, bring back the most busted slowdown that absolutely carried killers for how long I don't remember, 6 months?
And in this great state of the game would be a great idea. 🙄
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no but when you have 4 survivors running around doing gens or healing you kinda cant be wasting time on a boon snuffing animation that takes 2 secs when you have to be applying pressure. Not to mention how you have to go all the way to snuff it if its on the second floor of a building
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It was one of the most broken perks ever released, same level as CoH.
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Basically Hex: Plaything slightly better?
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Yes, it would be.
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Absolutely not, OP. The problem we have with the current version of the game is everything takes longer as a survivor. If we now have to cleanse an offensive hex up to 5 times instead of 2, that eats up WAY TOO MUCH time.
Gen time has been increased. Bloodlust has been increased. Killers are still using two or more slowdown perks (which probably should be limited to 1).
No, no, no.
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