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You know killers can see blocked gens?
To remedy this, we are restoring Pain Resonance’s generator interruption, though the Killer will still not receive a notification.
I am not really sure this post needs more...
Edit: I was wrong and since I am tired of copy pasta'ing this. My issue has nothing to do with the activation of Dead Mans Switch. My problem is there was an issue with two other perks. Pain Res and Merciless Storm. And instead of fixing that issue (which should also exist with Jolt), The devs decided to bring back a perk combination they essentially got rid of. That was a lazy way to fix the issue between other perks. That is my issue with this change.
Comments
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I swear idk if I should start taking patch notes seriously or not
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Still requires 2 perks to reach that point instead of JUST Pain Resonance.
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Yes, but the whole three paragraphs were about those three perks...
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I Saud this the moment I read the change.
They didn’t think things through
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Thats true, but its not like DMS is a bad perk on its own. And further more, this was specifically related to the patch notes and the use of these perks together.
Programming is hard
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I'd have made the other change -- don't explode but restore the notification. The interaction with Merciless Storm was annoying but could've been addressed a different way, and giving the killer the notification provided a reason to leave the hook. As a survivor would you rather have:
- 90 merciless storm skill checks on the rare occasion there's a PR hook while it's active?
- Or more camping?
The first is annoying, the second is actually bad for game health.
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I don't know why they didn't just have Merciless Storm have a maximum amount of time it activates for.
Merciless Storm will activate for 9 seconds after the generator reaches 90%.
It takes 9 seconds after Merciless procs with 1 person for it to be completed. Less if there are multiple people on the generator.
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You should see if BHVR is hiring for perk designers... This is kind of the perfect fix.
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I love how we are going back on out plan to change things up. People are going to go back to running dms and pr again
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it's beyond me how they couldn't have MS to have a limit time activation. It's THAT simple.
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Which is why they nerfed the duration of DMS. Time will tell if it ends up being just as popular as before.
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Not seeing the blocked generator only matters in the specific Dead Man’s Switch combo. The lack of an explosion impacts all other users of Pain Resonance, it wasn’t just used with that combo so that’s why they kept that limitation on the perk.
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I thought this too. Obviously this is too logical (for them) to be thought of. Either that or changing Merciless Storm in this way would somehow make Pigs lunge infinite or something.
I dunno I mean I’m glad they are revisiting things with a few small changes but these calls don’t feel right at all. Thana is going to be even more useless on killers that aren’t plague or Legion then it was before the change, nerfing MoM? Really? Like there’s a bunch of better ways you could take that issue. Then of course the topic title as well.
Makes me sad that the balance and coding team lag behind the other departments because the game as a package is really good.
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PR/DMS still won't be meta
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We can see but I'm not hopeful what so ever.
30 seconds seems like enough time for the killer to do what they need to do.
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Why can't they just nerf DMS duration AND give a time limit to Merciless storm is beyond me. DMS lasting 45 seconds is still ridiculous and it NEEDED this nerf, but we also really didn't need to get PR+DMS back, especially since we have also Eruption doing the same thing now.
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Yeah, could be, who knows? Maybe they should have considered adjusting how Merciless Storm works instead of how Pain Resonance and Dead Man’s Switch worked? Guess we’ll find out soon enough. 🤷♂️
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PR and DMS is way to strong of a combination. Even when shrunk down to 30 seconds. That means most gens are going to take 129 seconds.
Base 90 Seconds. DMS adds 30 seconds in which the gen can't be touched and PR reduces your progress by 9 seconds. This also excludes any other perks or events in the game that prevent the survivor from working on a gen. Such as Thanta, Dying Light, etc.
To be honest, I just think this was a bad call as others have pointed out. The issue was between PR and Merciless Storm... So why not fix one of those perks. For example, just add a time limit to Merciless Storm. The perk already only triggers once per gen anyway, so the effect would be the same.
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Incentives still disabled after no fix to the BP gain after matches
like put the BP bonus back on wgtlf and bqq or make that bonus basekit for both survivors and killers as of right now I not enjoying the game and the grind sucks.
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You can get off the Generator and avoid DMS, and the Killer won't know your Generator got hit by PR.
Is having a few brain cells a rarity now-a-days?
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"The issue was between PR and Merciless Storm... So why not fix one of those perks. For example, just add a time limit to Merciless Storm."
Or just do literally nothing.
The "issue" they are fixing is that if the killer activated PR you could get a million skill checks. And? So what? Either I pass them all and have a cool clutch moment I can be proud of, or I fail one and the gen is blocked, WHICH IS NOW GOING TO HAPPEN 100% of the time due to DMS.
Was the PR/MS combo unforeseen? Sure. But it wasn't hurting anything and this change is actively bad.
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Just for clarification, Dead Man’s Switch doesn’t actually add 30 seconds per gen. It does block a gen for up to 30 seconds, particularly if someone was on the gen and a Pain Resonance explosion kicks them off, but that doesn’t mean the net total completion time of the gens increases by 30 seconds for a couple of reasons. First, the survivors on the blocked gen can spend a few seconds going to a different gen instead in which case they may only lose however much that travel time is. Second, if another generator was also very close to being finished, and that will be the last generator finished, then blocking the one gen for 30 seconds will have no effect because the other generator will be completed and open the Exits without ever needing to finish the blocked one at all.
Mind you, Pain Resonance plus Dead Man’s Switch is still sounding like a good combo, I’m just point out it’s not necessarily literally 30 seconds of slowdown.
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The time duration nerf to DMS will basically make it so you only run it with Pain Resonance or only run it with Artist. It's already often pretty hard to get actual value from DMS with other killers because by the time you get to the generator the effect is already over and the generator you just activated it on you're already chasing the survivor. It only makes it useful if someone is two-manning a generator.
This change also now FORCES Merciless Storm to activate. While they're saying they don't want Pain Resonance and Merciless Storm to work together, this change buffs the combination. Instead of just having to do more skill checks for longer, you're now forced off the generator.
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Yes you are technically correct that it does not add 30 seconds of gen time. However, I was saying it will take 129 seconds to complete a gen that has PR and DMS activated on it at a bare minimum. Also PR and DMS is going to activate on multiple gens throughout the game. Either forcing you to start new ones or work on others. So to say its not a slowdown is really accurate on your part either.
My issue with these changes has nothing to do with the ability to avoid the perks activation. It has everything to do with what I perceive as a lazy way to fix an issue. They already admitted that PR and DMS was a strong and overly used combo and fixed it. However when there was an issue with another Perk combo, instead of fixing that issue. BHVR tucked their tails between their legs and brought it back. It was lazy and there is no other word for it.
EDIT: To be clear before someone reads this and gets butt hurt. I am not saying anything bad about the devs nor do I wish them ill will. I am stating that this decision was a lazy way to fix this issue. I hope the best for the devs themselves and know that they are doing their best and not all decisions are up to them and they are just doing their jobs.
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Was it lazy? Maybe.
Is it still a fair change? Yes
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I didn’t say “it’s not a slowdown”, I just said it’s not literally a 30 second slowdown per trigger.
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Cause I guess I have to just keep copy pasta'ing this
My issue with these changes has nothing to do with the ability to avoid the perks activation. It has everything to do with what I perceive as a lazy way to fix an issue.
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In solo queue that isn't a reality. You either stand there like a moron for the entire time between the downed survivor being picked up and being hooked, or you gamble and try to time it with no info.
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Apparently for my team mates it is
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I am confused, what is your point? Do you want them to nerf seeing blocked generators now? I think you THINK you had a point, but you did not really follow through to the the natural conclusion. So, yes, everyone is aware you can see blocked generators. Thank you for sharing...
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As before, survivors can simply let go of their gen during the hooking animation, then Resonance won't activate Switch, meaning the killer still won't see which gen it affected.
But the change doesn't make a lot of sense for a different reason, or two reasons:
- Since the recent update, Resonance happening in the middle of Merciless Storm led to the survivor facing a lot of skill checks, which if they were to miss one, would cause Storm to block the gen... Now Resonance happening in the middle of Storm will simply block the gen instantly, no matter what. I don't see how this is not a buff for the Resonance-Storm interaction.
- Resonance happening in the middle of Storm is a pretty rare occurrence, and Storm is an underpowered perk because experienced survivors can pretty reliably complete all of its checks. If anything, the existence of this combo is one of the few things Storm's got going for it. That said, given that I argue that this change is actually a buff for the combo, I guess this is a sensible change, only for the opposite reason the devs think.
Personally I'm not happy with the Switch nerf, I think due to the ability to let go of a gen before the hooking animation finishes, the Resonance-Switch combo wasn't all that oppressive. Granted, I think they should get rid of the "mechanic" whereby gens explode if a survivor lets go during a skill check, since that does make the combo obnoxious and is a bad mechanic in general. Mindbreaker/Fearmonger can be used to counter the tactic of letting go of a gen during the hooking animation, and it has gotten better now that Dead Hard isn't the #1 most prevalent Exhaustion perk anymore... but that's already a 3-perk combo, plus people can still let go when the survivor gets picked up.
If they really want to kill the Resonance-Switch combo, I would suggest they rework Switch to only activate if a survivor lets go of their gen while in the killer's terror radius. However, if they let go and trigger Switch this way, it will then block that gen for the entire 30 seconds (the time window within which Switch remains activate after hooking a survivor could still be 45 seconds, or even increased to 60). This not only solves the "issue" with the Resonance interaction, but also the much larger issue that is Artist + Switch.
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Your "count to at least 5" is the gamble. There's no way of knowing from across the map if that aura is 5 seconds away from a hook, or right next to one.
And yes, I can watch for the hooking animation, and then get boned with a badly timed skill check, as per usual.
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PR was strong as an individual perk. As it provided but regression and slow down. When combined with DMS which allowed the killer to than prevent that gen from being worked on made it strong.
They weren't really fixing PR + DMS... They were fixing PR so it couldn't be used as both a slow down and a knowledge perk. So no it wasn't lazy.
My point was this was a lazy way to fix an issue with an entire other perk combination. All they had to do was fix Merciless Storm and Pain Res. As some suggested, just make Merciless Storm work on a timer. It triggers and runs for 9 seconds or whatever.
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You do realize your whole argument is the same as "Just bait our dead hard duh"? Basically saying just wait it out. Don't play the game for 5 seconds. Do you want old dead hard back too?
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Add to this that Pain Res isn't the only perk that can interact with Merciless Storm on an active gen. Technically Jolt does the exact same thing that Pain Res does now: instant regression with no (visual) notification and no generator interrupt.
So at best this kicks the can down the road, since you can get the exact same scenario having one or more of your teammates going down near your gen while Merciless Storm is running. I guess time for Jolt to make survivors scream as well, for no reason.
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Good survivors just let off and nothing happens + DMS is a lot weaker.
I dont know what the issue is? This is tremendously good for survivors (at least survivors who understands PR...)
In the end, my Freddy-Combo (or Doctor or Artist) is back, but 30secs isnt that great. I dont know if its actual worth it using this combo with only 30 Secs. Opinions?
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Cause I guess I have to just keep copy pasta'ing this
My issue with these changes has nothing to do with the ability to avoid the perks activation. It has everything to do with what I perceive as a lazy way to fix an issue.
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The old counter to PainRes still works: let go of a gen before a survivor gets hooked, then you can resume working on it and unless the killer choses the wrong gen to patrol, you wont be hit be DMS. I fail to see the problem here ...
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Cause I guess I have to just keep copy pasta'ing this
My issue with these changes has nothing to do with the ability to avoid the perks activation. It has everything to do with what I perceive as a lazy way to fix an issue.
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People have played with DMS+PR for a while already and survivors adapt to it as I have seen before anniversary.
Thing is you either facing the killer combo of
Overchange + Call of Brine
PR + DMS
Pentimento + Plaything
Pick one which one you like to play against then, each has their own short coming and strength.
Thing is Pentimento + Plaything can be fit with those 2 above.
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Old PR/DMS:
Gen gives notification when hit. Survivor can partially counter DMS aspect by getting off the gen before hooked, but the killer will still be notified and probably come over. Either way, 45 secs of blocked gen unless you get it done in time first
New PR/DMS:
The same except getting off the gen first means the killer won't be notified at all unless they've also brought surveillance. DMS is shorter anyway.
The combo is way less oppressive than its previous incarnation and it's silly to pretend otherwise
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It's bhvr we're talking about.
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It's still very obnoxious, but honestly I'd take this rather than eruption. At least, as you say, this *is* counterable.
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My bad for not reading further into the thread, but thanks for humoring me ^^
I guess if you see it was a lazy fix or as an effective one is just personal taste, so its though to argue. I personally would have loved to see the explosion notion coming back for the killer, but PainRes not making the survivors scream or pushing them off gens. This never failed to peel me off that hook and send me accross the map with a clear purpose in mind, while now I often hook people and then stand there, unsure what to do next.
The new tweak will survivors occasionally scream, but I think the gen explosion was a more healthy way of handling things: you as the killer had a new target (the exploded gen), but didn't knew if you would find a survivor there who just evaded your PainRes, or if the gen was vacated long ago. Now if you hear a scream you know exactly that there will be a survivor.
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No its fine, it should be stated in the OP as I edited it to do so.
The problem with PR causing notification is you're getting two perks in one. A slow down a knowledge perk all rolled into one. I do think this change is lazy because it just brings back a perk combo they fixed when there were better ways to fix the issue with the perks in question, neither of which were DMS in the first place.
I do think it's good and shows that someone at BHVR had the thought that it shouldn't notify the killer. As then your making PR's a way to useful all-around perk. You get slow down when hooking someone and you know also know where they are. I do think DMS + PR working as they plan is better than the old method as PR is no longer giving knowledge but I also am aware enough to say that PR + DMS is an overly strong combination.
But I guess any killer that runs 2+ slow downs I generally consider sweaty and try hard, so maybe its just my play style as killer that forces me to hold others wanting to play the role to a higher standard.
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Its definitely a tricky perk to balance, as its also a favorite among killers. The way I see it, it was more healthy in the past when you always got the gen explosion and most killers, who got nothing better to do, would wander off in that direction, getting them away from the hook, giving them this magic incentive not to camp.
Right at the moment (and something that I wrote a feedback entry back during the PTB days) the perk feels pretty empty: you dont know if its working, you got no new target and might as well camp on the spot and trade hooks with any potential unhooker.
Yes, it was an info perk and a regression perk rolled into one, but the info part also lead to a more healthy gameplay style, often making the unhooking a rather save process, because the killer was busy hauling their buttock to the other side of the map. As I said, its tricky, and every way you cut it you got pitfalls, but I think the gen explosion was the most healthy part of the perk.
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Would you still run PR if all it does was cause a notification at the gen with the most progress? Are do you like it simply because it lets you have two perks in one (Pop + BBQ)? If a single perk is doing the work of one, why ever run the other perks. If you like PR because of the regression, but don't know where to go if there is no notification, what's stopping you from running BBQ?
How many survivor perks can you think of that help both do the objective and avoid they dying? I can think of one perk, and its bonus is much smaller than the regression than PR and it even requires you to handicap yourself by playing injured.
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You know this game is asymmetrical, right? Killers only have 4 Perk slots compared to the 16 Survivors have, a Killer Perk having 2 effects isn't "unbalanced" or "boring" or whatever excuse you'll try to find, it's balance
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Even the devs clearly don't agree with you? Otherwise, they would have let PR have the notification back. Straight from there own post:
The most recent addition to the meta, Pain Resonance allows the Killer to remove a sizable chunk from the most progressed generator simply by hooking a Survivor. A loud noise notification also allows the Killer to disrupt the Survivors before they can continue repairing. A “jack of all trades” of sorts, granting both a powerful regression effect and crucial information.
With that in mind, we are removing the loud noise notification. Instead of exploding, the affected generator will now spark upon losing progress, and Survivors will no longer scream. We believe this will ensure Pain Resonance remains a strong regression perk while limiting its informational aspect.
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I don't care about what the devs say. They nerfed MoM, Self-Care, DMS, Deathslinger, Twins, Wraith, Calm Spirit, etc...
Because they were "too powerful"
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