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August Developer Update thoughts
Looks like the first round of post-patch balance tweaks are already announced! Going through them
Thanatophobia will be receiving a rework in the 6.1.2 Update: Each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor will now provide a 1/1.5/2% action speed penalty. If all four Survivors are either injured, dying, or hooked, Thanatophobia grants an additional 12% penalty to Survivors’ action speeds.
This change will make Thanatophobia nearly as potent as before if all Survivors are injured but will require more effort on the Killer’s part to get full value.
Interesting change. So basically it’s going back to a 20% max instead of 22%, and on top on that if only 1 to 3 survivors are injured it is much less effective. This will definitely make the perk less popular, how much it hurts Legion Thana or Plague Thana combos remains to be seen since that will depend on how often they have literally all four survivors injured during a match. (It’s a good chunk of a match typically but not 100% of the time.)
Taking 2 protection hits will now activate Mettle of Man, granting the Endurance status effect. While the Endurance effect is active, your aura will be revealed to the Killer when they are further than 12/14/16m away. Like other Endurance effects, performing a Conspicuous Action will cause it to deactivate prematurely, and it will not protect you from entering the dying state if you already have Deep Wounds.
With this change, Mettle of Man will now work exactly like other Endurance perks, forcing the Survivor to make a choice between saving their Mettle of Man and working on generators. Since this will make it a little weaker, we have reduced the number of protection hits required to compensate. The aura reading effect is also active immediately rather than after you heal allowing the Killer to anticipate Mettle of Man and plan accordingly. We believe these changes will make the perk both easier to use and more interesting to play around.
I’m not as up on Mettle of Man’s working as other perks but this definitely sounds like a nerf. Sorry Ash mains. 😞
However, this change caused an unexpected combination to appear. Since this new version allowed the Survivors to continue working on the generator, Merciless Storm would continue spawning an excessive amount of skill checks (nearly 40!) after the generator regresses.
To remedy this, we are restoring Pain Resonance’s generator interruption, though the Killer will still not receive a notification. This will cause Merciless Storm to no longer combo with Pain Resonance.
That said, this would bring back the combo of Pain Resonance and Dead Man’s Switch. Therefore, we’ll be reducing the duration of Dead Man’s Switch to 20/25/30 seconds in order to make the perk combo less oppressive than it previously was.
So good news for Pain Resonance overall, bad news for Dead Man’s Switch. It might be ok though, Dead Man’s Switch at 30 seconds still gives slowdown. 🤷♂️
In 6.1.2, this issue is now resolved, and The Clown will be available to play once again.
Nuff said, yay!
Tome 12: Discordance includes all-new orange glyph challenges. We’ve seen some reports of motion sickness caused by the swirling VFX after interacting with these glyphs. Alongside the 6.1.2 Update, we will be temporarily swapping out these glyph challenges for a different one while we retool the visuals. If you’ve already completed this challenge, don’t worry; the challenge will remain completed! The orange glyph is expected to return with improved effects in the following update.
I didn’t experience the motion sickness issue personally but I get it. Glad they’re adjusting it.
Matchmaking Incentives reward you with additional Bloodpoints for playing whichever role is in demand at the time. When the Mid-Chapter launched, these incentives were not working as intended, granting 100% bonus Bloodpoints to Survivors at all times, including when there were more Survivors playing than Killers. This had an adverse effect on matchmaking: While Killer queue times were fairly quick, Survivor queue times skyrocketed. The system needed to be disabled after several hours.
We have investigated this issue and found the cause, but unfortunately it won’t make the deadline for the 6.1.2 Update. Matchmaking Incentives will be re-enabled on the 6.2.0 Public Test Build, then on the live version of the game if everything goes smoothly.
I’m a bit surprised the fix wasn’t simple enough to make it into the 6.1.2 patch, just goes to show you can never tell how complicated a bug is to resolve. Ah well, at least they figured it out. 🤷♂️
Comments
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I still don’t get how this is a buff for pain res. Am I the only person that used to let go of generators shortly after seeing a survivor aura getting lifted into the air, when I know the killer has pain res?
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You’re not the only one but there are a ton of players who don’t bother doing that.
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Do you have a link for these update notes?
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Thana
I don't like it. Thana was buffed because it was a niche perk, and... now it's still niche. The change will do little if you're against a Plague or Legion with Legion Pin.
MoM
Niche perk getting nerfed. Fun.
Pain Res DMS
Can we discuss the irony of nerfing slowdown perks because of upped gen times, and then brought this combo? Idc if a little weaker, the combo remains and is still dumb.
Clown
Good to see him back.
Glyph
I hope this horrifying challenge never returns. God, the headaches...
Incentives
I don't have a joke for this. A hyped up feature breaks day one, and we need to wait ages for it to return. Wow.
2 -
Mettle of Man is trasher than before
7 -
Here you go.
1 -
I repeat what I always say, this patch was supposed to change the meta of all players, but now they decide to return one of the most recently used combinations? (pain resonance and dead man switch) It was one of the most annoying combinations when playing Soloq and now it will be worse because the gens take longer. The meta did not change for killers, builds focused on "slowdown" are still used
9 -
Thana Plague is going to be the only good user after this change. Plague has a much easier time than Legion keeping all 4 survivors injured since they are broken and she can passively spread damage due to how infection works. This means that survivors will have to feed Plague corrupt purge in order to not take the full slowdown.
Thana Legion is much weaker as it's much harder for Legion to injure and keep all 4 survivors injured if they spread out and since only 1 survivor now needs to stay healthy it's much easier for at least 1 survivor to stay healthy against a legion.
1 -
Glad they made small changes more often but… they are all wrong lol.
You could just change Merciless Storm to lasting 10% of generator progression from when it started?
You could make Thana more effective on one or two being wounded and less on more so it gets used by killers other then Plague and Legion?
MoMs issue has a bunch of workarounds and there are bigger issues individual perks cause then this one.
Dead Man switch gens are visible to the killer making the perk combination feel even more necessary and making the ‘it doesn’t reveal the generator’ part utterly useless. Both perks had good uses on their own but now they are balanced as being one. Not a good call.
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And no word about camping and tunneling, as expected
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This is a small patch to tweak specific things from the rework. “Camping and tunneling” are really broad topics, I’m not sure why you’d expect a tweak patch to try and deal with them.
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Basekit bt increased to 10 secs. I don’t think it’s so difficult
4 -
This seems like another fair set of changes. Personally I've been extremely happy with almost everything they've done since announcing the meta shake-up.
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I’m really skeptical simply increasing the during of the base game Endurance and speed boost after an unhook would make much difference to how many people complain about “camping and tunneling”.
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Well, what about..
we have seen an increase and camping and tunneling and were looking into it
That sounds better?
4 -
I let out a breath of relief upon reading that thana nerf. Constantly seeing gift of pain + thana, thana + dying light, than+ insert more slowdown perks here & add sloppy butcher
slowdown has felt absolutely miserable since the patch--- this will feel much much less awful.
MoM change sounds like a nerf... but lets be real--- nobody used it before. Maybe now it can actually be activated without going so much out of your way.
Pain res + DMS -- meh whatever. Dont care so much if we have to deal with that again... but that merciless storm + pain res was AWFUL. I got hit with that yesterday and it was just an endless flurry of skillchecks. I was like what the heck is going on?! Now I know lol.
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Thana is a really good change for soloQ. You'll usually get at least one teammate that insists on healing every time legion hits them or plague infects them. While this wasn't ideal, at least now they'll actually be helping in a way if there's thana.
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"Oh and if you want to play SoloQ, keep on getting ######"
Thanks devs, your players appreciate you taking a big dump on them.
5 -
Wow, these changes are just...terrible. I know everyone memes about how out of touch the devs are, but I genuinely cannot understand how they though any of these changes were good. Nerfed Thano..except in the case of the two killers that people were complaining most about. They couldn't figure out how to stop a niche and incredibly rare perk interaction, so they just bring back one of the most busted pre-patch regression combos. MoM gets nerfed for some godforsaken reason. Why give killers a tell that a player has it, then make it be disabled if they do anything to progress the match? They've made an already niche and weak perk completely useless. Plus no MM incentive fix, no CoB/OC bug fix despite it being literally gamebreaking, no DS stun nerf revert (I play mostly killer and still think this change was completely unnecessary and unhealthy)
What are the devs doing??
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The thana changes im iffy about still, I think ill need to hear more arguments from both sides before I settle if this is a good change or not.
As for MoM, the aura change seems completely unreasonable. It was barely used before... so why would anyone use it now unless theyre a literal godlike looper? Seems odd, but maybe I just havent seen the value with it yet.
As for the other updates, I just dont care too much about the other changes they made.
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They could say something like that I suppose, although they already have camping and tunneling as things on their long term issues list so that’s not really news. 🤷♂️
Plus who knows if there is even an increase in camping and tunneling post patch? Nobody even agrees on the definitions let alone how to objectively measure them to see if they happen more often.
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The aura is just something that has been part of the perk design since it's release. And honestly I don't see that as being the biggest issue with the perk.
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FYI Thana did get nerfed for Legion and Plague here. At best it’s 20% now instead of 22% and that’s assuming all survivors are injured the entire match which isn’t likely even for Legion and Plague. And on top of that the new description didn’t include “dead” survivors, so once one survivor is dead it sounds like Thana is capping at 6%.
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I was facecamped in the 3 matches I played since the patch. I have no doubt, but I didn’t play since then , and I’m not going to do it
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At least Plague can get her corrupt purge from survivors cleansing. Thana Plague is good at forcing corrupt purges.
3 -
Im ok with the changes. Still wish they increased DS stun duration it was more needed than any of this.
- MoM nerf was weird but who cares was trash perk before now its another dead perk.
- PR+DMS im fan of blocking gens perks (unlike regressing/slow progression perks) my only issue is this can be used with Pop now.
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I don’t know, I actually played survivor a bit this last week and wasn’t facecamped once in about eight matches. Then again my survivor MMR is definitely lower than my killer MMR so maybe it’s mostly just a higher MMR occurrence?
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Thana nerf: It was needed, but not that much.
Mettle nerf: Do I need to say anything?
Pain Res + DMS is back: I don't really care.
Clown is back: Terrible
Orange Glyph gone: Fantastic
Matchmaking Incentives still gone: Cool (I don't care ngl)
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Why is Clown coming back “terrible” and Matchmaking Incentives being turned off “cool”?
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I really don't like Clown and I don't care about Matchmaking Incentives tbh xd
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"Since activating Mettle of Man is so difficult, it wouldn’t be fair to lose your hard-earned protection so easily."
So, you're not reducing the amount of protection I get, right?
(Anakin face)
...right?
--
Just word it like this, jesus
"Since Endurance is inferior to what MoM did, it wouldn't be fair to keep the activation requirements as high as they are."
1 -
Every perk change in this update reads like somebody who doesn't play the game saying the first thing that pops into their head as a fix with no thoughts about the effects they'd have. When you read each update and think about it for more than 3 seconds you'll invariably find a better solution for whatever problem they were trying to fix, and also find a problem their solution caused that's worse than the original problem.
6 -
The Thana change is more fake than aynthing else. On Plague survivors are forced to choose between two disadvantages: cleanse and give her a lethal power, or dont and play this game for 20 min. On any other killer youre basically forced to run healing perks, but hey, self-care got trashed. And a legion just laughs at any healing action. On most other killers thana is hopefully quite dead, which is a good thing gameplay-wise. On those two killer its still the most oppressive thing. -> Nothing achieved in regards of Legion and Plague. Another prime example on how BHVR claims to address issues while not addressing those issues.
MoM ... nothing to be said. Its HILARIOUS. How to make a already dead perk becoming a myth to be ever used.
And hey. BHVR logic again: "We want to change the meta" ... this obviously just works for survivors if killer even get their stupid DMS/PR combination back instead of FIXING whats wrong with their new "unforeseen combination".
5 -
I was in low mmr. I never escaped against fair killers with 0k, so I died a lot. I will wait for a camping/tunneling nerf, probably in 2024
0 -
Classic BHVR knee-jerk reaction.
It is why players cry about the same topic over and over. All in unison, imagine that. 🤔
They could of revert the numbers for thano back to what it was before. Now its weaker than it ever was. MoM didn't need a change. Now its useless.
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Truer words were never spoken. At this point, whatever they do in a patch, at least it has a comedic effect.
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It’s not fake. On top of the cap being 20% instead of 22%, also notice how the 12% bonus doesn’t apply with “dead” survivors. So once a survivor is dead Thana is capped at 6% penalty. That should make 3v1 situations versus Legion and Plague easier.
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I’m bad but I think my escape rate is about 40% maybe? I think I’m only that high because I know things as a killer that I should hypothetically be doing as a survivor. I mainly get in trouble because I still do klutzy stuff like miss skill checks and I can’t steer myself as well in third person as first person when I’m trying to look behind me. But assuming I hit my skill checks I typically get a gen or two done and a rescue and/or couple of heals so I never feel like I’m being totally unhelpful at least. 🤷♂️ And even though my looping as a survivor is weaker than as a killer I can still hold forward and try and chain vaults together which helps.
As far as camping goes, I’m still partial to the idea of slowing hook timers when the killer is within 20-25 meters. That would basically be putting the base game in line with perks like Devour Hope, Make Your Choice and the new Monstrous Shrine in a killer having a mechanical effect in game that is a reason to leave a hook. They could even make it something like 1/2 speed while within 24 meters and 2x speed outside that, for instance, to keep the average time on hook about the same as it is now but still have a carrot and stick push to leave the area. That’s all kind of a tangent for another topic though.
1 -
10% buff to Thanat
[Survivors complain]
Removed 10% buff, AND added a 60% nerf to Thanat
Yup. Take a look at how they massacred all the meta killer perks (and even massacred the Overcharge 'buff') and this all tracks perfectly well.
So now that brings us up to 9 meta killer perk nerfs, compared to the 4 survivor meta perks nerfed. Classic.
At this point, I don't think I want to see ANY killer perks get ANY buffs. In a month or less, they'll take it away and completely kill the perk off on top of that!
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God thana now is more trash than this game even . Make it 3% dude come on
1 -
Basekit needs more, like suppression of scratch marks, grunts of pain, and pools of blood for the 5s duration. Guardian eliminates scratch marks but still leaves the other two available. Perhaps Guardian could suppress all three for an additional 10s as BT does or change Guardian to provide those three for 15s and don't add it to Basekit. 5, 12, and 15 have proven to do little, but maybe the addition of suppressing the three tracking methods would discourage or make it much harder to tunnel. Then again, we fall into that "must have to be competitive" place that the devs indicated they want to move away from.
1 -
lmao true, what an useless patch it's hard to do worse than this
2 -
So you get a 20% slowsown while tunneling one survivor out to get the most easy situaton a 3vs1. Pretty good job so far.
3 -
It's too bad you can't proc MoM while in the Deep Wounds status. At least you could have tilted the killer by bodyblocking with BT/OTR and then proc MoM if he gets mad and tunnels you. I know that bodyblocking fresh off the hook annoys me so much that I always hard tunnel out the guy that does it
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I may be wrong but my take on this is that fixing the interaction with Merciless Storm would simply be more complicated than just reverting PR and lightly nerfing DMS, so BHVR taking the path of least resistance.
And while seeing PR +DMS make a sort of comeback doesn't break my heart, it certainly doesn't jive with remaking the meta, and I generally don't like it. I suspect that combo will be addressed again, though.
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Thana isnt really that niche tho, it became viable for half the killer cast, and with generators being 90 seconds it made it very simple for killers to tunnel someone out. Teammates that bodyblock? No problem, just slows the game down more. And it might not seem like doing a lot against Plague or Legion, but you can avoid 4 people being injured against Plague and Legion, let alone that this is a huge incentive for people to cleanse against Plague too. This change is mostly done to also prevent Thanatophobia and Gift of Pain stacking(I used Dying Light on one build too, just hooked the obsession once for the Gift of Pain slowdown and have Thana do the rest, it was disgusting)
MoM I rather have them remove the aura completely now, then I would be quite okay with the change, less Niche than old MoM, but also slightly less powerful.
PR+DMS personally, I wish they capped the Merciless Storm skillchecks at 20 instead. On a solo gen, you'd get about 11. With full Thana stacks it's about 15 checks. If you happen to get one with Pain Res, grant those 5 bonus skillchecks, making the scourge hook still rewarding, but be punished with only 20 seconds of blockage if it misses.
Incentives, well, I honestly believed that the incentive was like that due to the amount of nurses and legions running thana from day one. When I tried playing any killer it took nearly 4 minutes to get a match, while my survivor queue was instant at the time. I was quite shocked that it wasnt like that.
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Nice!
Facecamping Bubbas have never had it easier. Now they can use Deadlock, DMS + PR + No Way Out/Fearmonger and remember + 10 seconds to gens. Now just 1 survivor forgetting to let go of a gen INCASE the Bubba has PR + DMS will result in giving the Bubba more time to facecamp and win the game without him having to move.
Nurses will now go back to their good old Agi + Starstruck + DMS + PR and 10 secs added to gens.
I can't help but feel that they reversed the DMS + PR change instead of fixing a bugged combo as it was the easiest thing to do. And now the strongest killers and boring (yet effective) playstyles have been buffed because of it.
2 -
How are you keeping all four survivors injured while you hard tunnel someone?
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Yeah let me just tunnel a survivor out of the game while taking a break every time another survivor heals to go injure them again before returning to my original target, that's definitely a winning strategy that will happen in every match.
Here's what will actually happen: Thana will be rarely used, if at all.
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Yeah, I think the best suggestion I’ve heard for facecamping Bubbas is slow or stall the hook timer if you are within 20-24 meters of the hook, similar to how things like Devour Hope and Make Your Choice and Monstrous Shrine work. That way if a Bubba does just hang around a hook the other survivors will have plenty of time to just push through the gens. Someone has also recommended a carrot and stick approach where it’s something like 1/2 speed timer while the killer is within 24 meters and 2x speed when they’re farther away so on average if a killer tends to leave hook to chase elsewhere the net average hook time stays about the same as the current 60 seconds per stage. Really the only hitch I can think of is with killers like Hag or Dredge who have high map mobility, they’d obviously be getting a bit of a buff with that system.
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