Uh oh here comes the survivor mains!
Oh this is fun. Let's now complain about every killer perk that got buffed! They're about to post it all and they have started already. Thanatophobia was first, next will be Lethal Pursuer. The nerfs are going to be worse than the buffs are given to these perks. This just happened to Thanatophobia who nobody batted an eye when it was at 20% but when it got to 22% and everyone loses their mind. Now it's the most garbage perk in the game.
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You're wrong.
I've seen many players on here who I know for a fact play survivor who understand how this perk has been nerfed too hard. What you didn't read was that they also specifically said that killers like Legion and Plague is where the problem currently is. Because there is currently no fair threshold in terms of how much you can slow gens down when they can stack multiple effects at once.
I am not sure what you have been reading but even a 2% extra Thana effect, is going to mean something different for every killer. A killer with high mobility and one that can get fast hits like Legion, yes 22% was too much. Because guess what a lot if not most of them do? stack even MORE perks of the same effect.
Stop pigeonholing every survivor simply because you think they are out after every buffed perk.
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tbh in the beginning was 4% for each injured survivor and that debuff stacked also on the healing speed, then it was buffed/nerfed (erased the penalty on healing speed) to what you said, then utterly buffed and now nerfed to the ground
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Regression stacking was always a problem.
I play more survivor than Killer these days but even as a Killer I could see how stacking regression was just making the game so much easier. You want some kills? Just equip Ruin, Undying/Pop, Pain Res and BBQ. Made it so easy to finish those quest where you had to kill or hook survivors in one match.
And because I switch so much I am by no means a good Killer. I am average at best.
Now, I enjoy that they shook up the meta for Killers.
However I was and never will be a fan of stacking regression and slowdown perks. Old Ruin was painful, sure, but only when combine with Pain Res or Pop it got so bad that it could carry a Killer without any effort. They should have their own perk category or something like that that limits them a bit. However I am aware that this creates other issues.
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There’s a difference between % on top of 80seconds vs 90seconds.
It’s always easy to see that difference when chases are shorter because killers got basekit buffs to chases and survivors got basekit chase nerfed.
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True. The buff was not that outstanding.
I think it's important to say though that if the perk became that infamous, it was because of its effect on exactly 2 out of all of the killers that made them both more common and tedious to face, and that most people who wanted it changed recognize that BHVR's reaction was completely out of proportion and missed the point by a mile.
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20% of 80 charges vs 22% of 90 charges is a difference of 15 seconds
To get the value thana had if gens were still 80 base then it would have had to be buffed to 7,5% per survivor to a max of 30%
I know they did thana dirty but saying "it got only buffed by like 2%" is just wrong.
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The complaining about Thana isnt Thana
Its the old Thana with 20% debuff on 80sec was 100sec. On 90sec is 112sec. 60sec more on 5 Gen more than it should be
Vs Legion isnt only 60sec more Gen with only Thana, its +8sec mend every minute Frenzy in play
Another Gen slow down
Another Gen slow down
Another Gen slow down
People question why Devs buff Thana another 2%?
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Guess what? Even if they had left Thana as it was without changing anything, it would have proven problematic with all the other changes from patch 6.1:
- Gens now taking 90s is a buff to thana and ANY slowdown combos.
- Stacking with other buffed perks (Gift of pain) without any max threshold.
- Chases being faster gives you less time to work on a gen.
Plague and Legion, which can utilize Thana well, amplify that issues. The thana nerfs were bound to happen, regardless of the previous buffs.
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They could add another objective like Gas to Gen...the traveling time would be greater than 50sec.
Plus split up 80sec on Gen to may be 20 Gas / 60 Gen. The Gen perks in general would be nerfed itself without fixing anything
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Joker memes, we truly live in a society ..
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Sure, but what has that to do with the thana nerf?
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Just an idea that how they should changed to extend Objective time for survivor. And that change is certainly affect Thana.
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As a survivor main, I say that's simply not true.
I actually agreed with most of the changes/killer buffs; the main complaint was that buffed Thana stacked with other gen slow-down perks had become way too oppressive on Plague and Legion as you spend most of your game injured, and therefore, gens became even more tedious and boring. Also, people complained about Thana Legion and Plague long before the perk got buffed.
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Killers having sinergy with perks is not allowed
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Replace Thana with DH and the percentages with hit validation
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conveniently omitting that most comments were with 90 second gens thanatophobia was oppressive feeling. The devs could have reduced then gen times to 80 seconds and kept thana at 5.5% / injured. That would have been fine...better probably. Instead they nuked from orbit the perk.
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It wasn't just because it got buffed to 22%. It was that combined with the 90-second gen change.
If my math is correct, which it's probably not, old Thana added 16 seconds on top of 80, while the new one added 18 seconds on 90 seconds, which is quite a lot honestly.
Also that stacking it with other gen-regression perks made everything worse.
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Joker meme: uploaded
Survivor mains: disrespected
It's gaming time 😎
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he is not wrong, Before thana was 20 percent and nobody whined about legion or plague, and just cause they added 0.5 % per survivor, 4X0.5 is 2. Everyone freaked tf out. you say that like it isnt true but it is.
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Now I just know you didn't completely ignore every other basekit killer change including longer gen speeds to try and pass the Thana change off as nothing but a 2% buff. That would be simply absurd, surely nobody would be that desparate for meaningless Internet points right?
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honestly I'm not sure he understands how all those things work together to make the issue. It sounds like he's just looking for a punchline to make the counter arguments look stupid.
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13.8, not that it far off.
It is really 2% ... it's just not the whole picture.
Thinking about it, this is only if a survivor does a generator alone, which would be typically done in a gen-rush.
I don't recall the buffs doing gens cooperatively, or with speed-boosting perks. (Because they exist too.)
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What basekit chase nerfs did survivors get? The only one i can think of is the 0,2 second sprint burst reduction. Which really isn't a big deal.
I understand that survivor is in a rough spot, but chases aren't the problem in my opinion. The chase buffs definitely helped, but not that much. Survivors can still outrun killers fairly well if they play better than the killer. I guess the DH nerf is definitely noticeable.
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Are these survivor mains in the room with us right now?
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No thana needed to be reverted due to the 10 second upgrade to the gens length as the increase it got was massive due to it
hopefully last patch shows that small numbers can have big results
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Nobody liked it on Legion and Plague even when it was 20%. Your argument is disingeneous since you refuse to take into account the fact that generators take 90 seconds, and the 22% was applied ontop of that.
Nobody thinks the Thana nerf is okay, either.
Pre-patch, everybody complained about Thana Legion/Plague. The slowdown is applied ontop of 90 second generators, plus other slowdown perks.
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Where do you get the 13.8 from if i may ask? I could have made a mistake
i don't think co-op or speedboosting perks were changed so there is no real difference in that department from before and after the big update.
Unless i'm missing some
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I took the numbers you've put in the post and simply did : 1.22 * 90 - 1.2 * 80
The comment about the cooperation or perks is just to see what that number becomes in these cases, and I didn't even think about toolboxes.
I never use these myself so I don't know the numbers. The killer has brought a perk to slow gens down? What if survivors do the same? With toolboxes? Together?
It should be a nice table.
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I just leave this image here.
With new Gen, the time extended from old Thana 20% is 110sec (450 to 560)
And again, people not freaked out why 2% is the problem. The Devs' thought of buffing Thana was the problem.
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so it's +100 vs +125, seems like strength of thana itself is not that different.
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Yes.
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Its a way to increase objective timers while making it harder for Killers or Survivors to tinker with the % buffs/debuffs.
Problem with a lot of perks on both sides is they affect time on a % basis, if you increase them the % works in a way where it increases the timer even more than it used to be, a 15% of 100 is 15, a 15% of 1000 is 150 which is a lot more.
The problem the game has now is they increased gen timers by 10 seconds but didnt account for most perks which add a fixed % to that timer, for example Dying Light with 5 tokens adds a 15% speed penalty, before it was 12 seconds for a total of 92 seconds per gen and now its 13,5 for a total of 103,5 seconds, now slap Thanatophobia 22% adds 19,8 seconds, 103,5+19,8=123, per gen, which is more than 2 minutes pressing M1.
If you divide the objective in 2 parts, lets say refuel and fixing the generator, lets make fixing 60 seconds and refueling 30 seconds but here is the kicker, refueling is fixed time so perks, items, powers, wathever wont affect it, NOTHING can affect refueling, its always 30 seconds, this way a gen would take 90 seconds like now but every speed penalty or buff would work on the 60 second fixing time which would translate in smaller numbers and overall less slowdown. If you fix the timer on part of an objective its much harder for players to make stuff take too long or too little.
With a 30+60 gen timer % based perks will still add timer but it wont as opressive as they are now, Thanatophobia would add 13 seconds over the 60 seconds fixing time to a total of 73, a 0% gen with 4 stacks of Thanatophobia and 5 Dying Light would take 30+60+13+9=112 which is still a big number but not as harsh as 123.
Post edited by HectorBrando on3 -
Technically killer buffs = survivor nerfs in this sense, so a reduced speed boost, faster weapon cooldown, and faster breaking speed would all contribute. Combine that with losing Dead Hard, probably the best chase perk in the game, and technically Iron Will being very solid in chases too.
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The best way to settle this debate is just to put both sides in a ring and let them beat each other to death. Would be solved faster than anything else.
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Bruh...10 seconds getting added is only if ONE survivor is doing gens, if 2 survivors start at the same time, they will complete both in 90 seconds, not 180 seconds
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Aah that's not how slowdown works
You have to divide by the number of charges a survivor does. A survivor normally does 1 charge per second. If thana slows down that survivor by 22% they work at (1-0.22) 0.78 charges per second
Then you take the 90 charges to complete a gen and devide by the amount the survivor works to get how long it takes
So 90/0.78= 115.4 seconds
Here is a table about how long it takes with different versions of thana and gen times. This is without survivors bringing anything
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I'm so glad you've taken over my role of doing calculations so I don't have to anymore
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if people complained about it pre patch, I pretty sure the devs would not have buffed it. But then again you can never tell with bhvr.
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ohh i see, well lets just agree that thana sucks now and we need new people to design the reworks for perks
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Oh, so it doesn't increase the time required for a generator but reduces the speed at which work is done. Good to know.
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9-12-14-15 debuff. Thats it.
It will be nerfed by 25% on Legion/Plag, while buffed more than 50% on other Killer.
The change doesnt fix the problem that it still work good on Le/Plag. And its only good on them now.
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As evidenced by the massive buff Spine Chill got, I'd say BHVR doesn't really listen.
The Feedback: Legion/Plague with Thana isn't fun to play against because they can consistently keep you injured. BHVR: We hear you, and we've decided to buff Thana in response to your feedback :)
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Thana was a problem. They didn't implement a good solution, but it was certainly a problem.
I feel like a lot of gen regression perks need nerfs, and killers need a reason to run perks other than regression. Ruin should be buffed on the other hand, because it's honestly a more fair regression perk than most of what we have.
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Cringe
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All I’m going to say is “just adapt” like all killer mains told survivors after patch 6.1.0.
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OP's right.
Thanat was a nothing perk because CoH made lasting damage impossible for all but two killers. Nobody used it so they buffed it by 10%. Survivors complained so they removed the buff AND nerfed it by 60%.
Overcharge was a nothing perk and they buffed it to be a regression perk. Then, when they found that it stacked with another perk, instead of making them exclusive effects, they nerfed it to actually make your kicks WORSE than if you didn't bring it at all, moving the perk from "basically pointless" to "actively makes you worse."
Clearly survivor complaints are working. So survivors will continue to make complaints and all the 'buffs' will get twisted into massive nerfs instead.
Meta perk shift gave 4 survivor perks nerfs. There are now NINE killer perk nerfs. And that's just going to keep getting worse.
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They should have just made it 4/8/12/16. Then it would be 107 seconds at max stacks. I don't personally mind the loss since I don't bother running slowdown but it'd be cool if it was at least niche to some builds where you can keep some survivors injured, rather than completely useless on most the cast since you have to keep all 4 injured to even get any value.
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no, people hated thana because not only did it get buffed, but it stacked on top of the 10 added seconds on a gen.
on top of the influx of legions running it with gift of pain, penta, etc. and you have yourself a painful slow game.
I do hate the nerf, but because it nerfs other killers who didn’t benefit from thana that much. You’d have to be dumb to run it on onryo or something now.
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Bloodlust also
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Nine killer perk nerfs ontop of basekit killer buffs.
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