Stacking Regression Perks: How can we fix it?

It is, indeed, at no cost to the killer. The killer is pretty much downing and hooking survivors 24/7, and only occasionally kicking gens if they have a high percentage on them. You are being disproportionately rewarded for something that you're supposed to do anyway by getting massive slowdown on top of that.

It's kind of silly, but imagine if survivors had a perk that speeds up their gen repair speed for every window or pallet they vault in chase. On top of doing good, they are also doing exponentially good and will be able to slam gens much better once they break chase or get unhooked.

I also don't run these builds, because they are low risk and high reward if you play a killer that has strong chase potential (and I'm a gambler at heart).

You're just doing your job and doing it well, no sweat home boy.

You don't need perks to win chases. Seriously, you don't. Most killers have powers that are strong enough that they don't really need any help in chase, to the point that there really isn't a big trade off for those killers to run all slowdown perks or even no perks at all. Weaker killers want things like Bamboozle or Enduring + Spirit Fury to deal with difficult loops, so the only time using a chase perk instead of a slowdown perk is a good choice in terms of cost-effectiveness if you're playing an M1 killer like Wraith or Ghost Face.

You can't counter Jolt if you're the one on the gen, or if the survivor getting chased is getting zoned out and forced to loop near the gen or take a down when they otherwise could loop the killer for 30 additional seconds (not to mention 32m is a decently large range, although it shouldn't be reduced since it already can be hard to activate on certain maps).

You can't counter Eruption unless you have perfect comms and teammates that actually listen, which 99% of players don't have.

You can't counter Pain Res without body blocking or sabo, which is generally not even a good play in the first place since it can give the killer free snowball.

DMS is reasonably counterable, but there's nothing stopping the killer from just forcing you off once they have someone on hook.

Prove Thyself is not a counter to gen regression. Sure, you can do gens a whopping 6 seconds faster than you could without it, but there's actually nothing stopping the gen from getting nuked from orbit by regression perks while two guys are working on it.

I pretty much only play swf if I am playing survivor. What if I want to play solo queue, though? Should I just go ######### myself instead?

If a killer is kicking gens in the middle of a chase, they've got bigger issues than trying to get their Eruption proc.

True, Jolt only works on killers that rely on M1. Which is, what, over half the killers in the game?

Scourge hooks are indeed pretty hit or miss, but when they hit, and hit, and hit and there's literally nothing you can do because you're not a precognitive psychic and brought sabo and also happened in the right place at the right time when you should actually just be doing gens (then they just hook him on the other scourge hook close by)... doesn't feel good to play against.

The reason why I am so against stacking regression perks is because it makes matches that would take 5 minutes into matches that take 15 to 20 minutes. Especially on killers with built in slowdown like Legion, Pinhead, and Pig. Not really that fun or enjoyable to slowly lose to a frosty eye Wraith that is terrible in chase, but is winning because the match has taken so long that there are no more pallets on the map.

That's fair. My issue is mostly that playing against a Legion (or XYZ killer) with four slowdown perks for 20 minutes is simply so boring. Especially in back to back matches, it can get very draining.( and yes, my teammates will happily exclaim "I cleansed all five totems, guys! :D" when we have three gens left and everyone is on death hook.)

I have no trouble controlling gens even with zero slowdown perks, so I'm never seeing gens fly in my games.

I also don't like games that are so short I never get to be chased by the killer. Don't make up random things about me and argue with the imaginary version of me that only exists in your head. There's a happy medium, about an 8 to 12 minute game. Too much less is too short, too much more is too long.

literal whataboutism lmfao. Prove is problematic, but at least it's risk/reward. Grouping up as survivor is pretty much always the worst possible play you can make, and Prove encourages grouping up. Two guys without Prove finish a gen in 52 seconds, two guys with one Prove finish it in 46 seconds. Not the end of the world, but it becomes an issues if you stack it with other perks and items

That's kind of half my point, I suppose. A killer can play very badly and still 4k simply because they buy themselves so much extra time. It's like survivors stacking second chance perks last patch: despite actually being really bad, they still win by virtue of "out-perking" the other team

My problem isn't "skill issue + get vibe checked + ratio," it's not even a problem that magically only I'm having. I have no problem in chase, usually killers realize they need to drop me and they start ignoring me. I typically have no problem with teammates getting on gens. It's also not like I'm losing every game as survivor or my team is struggling to escape, I'm just sick of playing the same match for 20 minutes every other game.

The problem is when the killer is at least decent and not asleep at the keyboard, they are inevitably going to get downs. Those downs then buy minutes at a time from having multiple slowdown perks. So if the killer is getting at least one down a minute (which is terrible time efficiency btw), they can keep the game stalled out long enough to kill someone and make the game take even longer due to the team having lesser effective generator progress per second.

We're not even going to talk about also camping and/or tunneling on top of that, which takes little skill or effort and exponentially compounds value from slowdown perks (and exponentially compounds how much I want to play a different game).

my b, I was talking about jolt + pain res. it's 23% which is... not that much less than 25%.

A killer doesn't have to be playing better than you 100% of the time to win chase. The game is designed around survivors having to inevitably takes hits and downs at some point. Pallets are permanently destroyed, windows get blocked, killers get bloodlust. It can take a while, but even goated 4k+ hour survivors are going to go down.

Not to mention that there are some chases where skill is simply not a factor. Sometimes you're doing a gen in a dead zone (because you need to break the three gen), and you get chased off it. All you can do is hold W and get hit, then you run into another dead zone and get hit again. Is the killer better than me because I am not a precognitive psychic? No, I was in a dead zone the size of Texas and I'm not currently running Windows of Opportunity. Survivors will inevitably go down, a match with 1 or even 0 hooks is an anomaly.

Yes, I do think bad killers are getting carried by perks. A killer that is playing abysmally and getting one down at one gen is having a rough match, and it's pretty obvious I'm not talking about killers that are losing are magically making all the generators go to zero. It's killers that typically play quite bad and normally wouldn't stand a chance against a coordinated team, but they're able to repeatedly buy themselves time at least once a minute. I'm talking about games where if the killer didn't have those perks, they would have 100% lost very quickly.

They happen pretty often. Killers that whiff at every window and pallet, stand in front of hook for 20 seconds only for the survivor to get unhooked anyway, try to tunnel a survivor that they really shouldn't try to tunnel, ect... but because they have so much extra time from stacking slowdown and regression perks, it doesn't actually matter that they make so many mistakes. They buy back all the time they wasted and then some. That's the kind of game I'm talking about, and they are very frustrating and unfun.

It's like getting dead hard'd and ds'd by a survivor that clearly could not loop properly last patch, but you just lose because the other person is running XYZ perk.

One down a minute is doing terrible as killer. It's actually beyond terrible. One down every 30 to 45 seconds is what I would call "good pressure"

way to contribute to the conversation in a meaningful and helpful way

You have good points, but so do I. There's no reason to hop on name calling and being whiney when I don't fall over like a dead cat to every argument you make.

Here's my points:

Stacking regression stalls out the game and makes it way more boring and lengthy than it needs to be.

• Counter Argument: Killers need regression to compete with Prove and other gen rush perks
• Refutation: Killers are doing just fine against Prove with no regression perks by winning chases quickly

Winning one chase and chunking a gen for 30% is too much reward for something that is also your main objective. Pop was nerfed for a reason.

• Counter Argument: Eruption, Pain Resonance, and Jolt are too conditional to be used like that together.
• Refutation: Eruption requires you to kick a gen, which takes very little time do and is convenient if you are patrolling gens anyway. Pain Resonance is held back by having poor RNG on occasions, but taking chases in the same area repeatedly ensures survivors will go down near your scourge hooks. You can also run Agitation. Jolt's 32m range is actually extremely generous, and you can ensure it goes off by sticking close to gens. The conditions for these perks are very lenient and easy to proc repeatedly.

Stacking regression perks carries unskilled killers and wins matches for them that they otherwise would have lost.

• Counter argument: Eruption, Pain Res, and Jolt require the killer to be doing well to get value out of them.
• Refutation: Dead by Daylight is designed so that the killer will inevitably get downs. This means even if the killer is fairly mediocre or bad, they are still going to get decent value from these perks multiple times per match... barring matches where the killer chases one survivor the entire match and struggles intensely. These matches are outliers, and largely not relevant to the discussion of normal Dead by Daylight gameplay.

Stupid counter arguments:

• lol you're bad
• lol your team is bad
• lol if the killer is winning, they are obviously good and there's no possible way that they're getting carried by perks

Does that about cover it?