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If you want nurse nerfed, you also want survivors nerfed.
Here is the latest stats that were released by BHVR:
Now, this data is from 2021-2022. We can probably safely assume that kill rates dropped somewhere significantly across the board, which is why they buffed killers as a whole in the last recent update.
However, as you can see here, nurse has the lowest kill rate in the game. So it stands to reason, one of the following statements must be true:
- We can't balance around the top level players, and should instead balance around the 95% of other players. Nurse is fine, because she is really hard to play, and is extremely rare to come across a good one. Also, SWF are fine and should not be nerfed, because SWF kill squads are rare.
- We can and should balance around the top level players, Nurse is too powerful in the hands of top level players and should be nerfed. SWF and survivors in general at the highest level play are far too powerful and gens go too fast in relation to how long chases can last and survivors as a whole need to be nerfed and/or remove SWF. Nor should survivors be able to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
One of those 2 statements must be true. Either we balance around high level players, which means one thing, or we don't, which means another. If you attempt to merge pieces of 2 of the statements together, or to only hold one part of the statement true for either side of the argument, then you are simply BIASED.
Comments
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The nurse and blight only can beat SWF , We need more killer S tier to counter SWF.
Blight , nurse >>> SWF >>>>> the rest of killer.
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Why could they not balance for low AND high level players...?
For example, nerf things that are used at high level and not at low level (eg. the range addon)
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Nurse is fun.
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Range is used at all levels. Some players are so bad they need range at low elo. Being low elo doesn’t mean you are not trying to win with the best builds.
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Lol. Nice try, nurse profile picture.
Nurse is broken and people are tired of her, and survivors just got nerfed. Nerfing survivors again will kill this game. Maybe after nurse/blight/artist/trickster/slowdowns are nerfed, then we can consider weakening the role at top level a bit. But it's not about survivor nerfs right now.
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All ranks data is useless. Low mmr nurse and high mmr nurse are two different killers therefore merging their killrates gives number that means very little and your picture proves that. Lowest killrate killer on the paper is actually strongest on practice
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We just got the Survivor nerf.
So based on that, next in line would be Nurse, no?
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And Artist too.
I want neither nerfed
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If you think kill rates are important, then you must want pinhead, Leatherface, plague and pig nerfed... Right?
Oh right, kill rates only mean anything when they fit your argument
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trickster
I think everything you post on this subject is probably invalid.
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Actually that's my point. These kill rates are averaged across all ranks. So these are "the average player" the argument we always hear about why survivors can't be nerfed is because "SWF kill squads are rare and aren't the majority of players" or "we can't balance around top players"
Thus my argument is simple. If we can't balance around top level players, and instead balance around the average ones, then we need to nerf leatherface, pinhead, pig, plague and buff nurse, trickster and twins. However, if we decide that leatherface, pinhead, pig, and plague are fine and nurse needs nerfs, then we need to also nerf survivors more.
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yeah lets just base everything on this graph here
Nurse needs 5 blinks by default and her recharge removed, for the shits n' giggles lets increase the range of her blinks by default. Eh screw it her fatigue will now always be 3 seconds.
Pinhead though? Pfff, just look at the graph! He's at the very top! Just remove his chains.
Piece of cake!
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No, the idea is simply to buff the killers who are underperforming :)
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Nurse needs the Axe even if she's the only answer to SWF's. SWF's will be SWFS no matter what. Dowsey, Otz, JRM and Ayrun have proven that... With brand new characters with minimal Perks they all reached Iri 1 and they've played against good killers and came back from situations they wouldn't have come back from if they weren't a SWF of good players. The key here is good players.
Nurse needs the axe so that BHVR can see why the other killers can't compete. And BHVR is already making steps towards making other killers compete. M1 killers got a pretty significant buff, the last 2 killers are M1 killers, Sadako and Dredge and they are far better than the previous M1 killer before them, Ghostface... We haven't had an M1 killer since 2019 and we haven't had a good M1 killer until the Update. Even Sadako, who is a much better killer than generally is thought about, was suffering alot but since the Update she's coming into place, minor tweaks here or there but she's fine. You won't 4k Condmned Mori every game, it's not why she exists, same thing as you won't 4k Torment with Pyramid Head and you won't 4k RBT as Pig either so saying Sadako is weak because of Condemned is pretty much BS when she's a better Hit & Run stealth killer than every other stealth killer, she can cover more ground faster, makes less noise, has better mindgames and still has built in slowdown, what other stealth killer can say they have movement, slowdown, mindgames and mori's in their basekit? Nobody.
Back to the point. BHVR is making strides towards making more killers able to compete. However buffing killers in general means Nurse also gets buffed because she's receiveing the same bonus as every other killer and she's benefitting from the survivor nerfs aswell. Nurse is unarguably stronger than she was before the Update. She needs to be corrected. And that correction has to happen for the sake of other killers aswell otherwise the power disparity between Nurse and all the other killers will still be present.
Not changing Nurse because of SWF's is a mistake. Just like buffing SoloQ is a mistake because just like Top killer benefits from buffing all killers so do SWFs benefit from buffing SoloQ cause each SWF member is still an individual survivor.
The better solution is to introduce restrictions to survivor output while they are a SWF. This way you can limit the output of Top killers aswell, thus you can Nerf Nurse and SWFs and ensure more killers can compete vs SWF's and that SoloQ doesn't suffer as much vs Top killer.
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Aside from range Add-Ons, those can bite the dust
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No, you're arguing kill rates matter. They don't. Whether it's average players or top tier players. Kill rates are a meaningless statistic. And it's time we stop pretending otherwise
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There was just a thread on the front page requesting plaid flannel to be basekit. Artist actually has it. The game wants to aim for her. She doesn't have to play tiles, she has a range attack that can injure survivors through walls, and the game telegraphs where she is aiming. I come from shooter games and play mostly ranged killers in DBD. In DBD, the hitboxes and more-or-less built-in wallhacks or something else. Never experienced it another game. And Trickster, he's spray-and-pray against opponents that look like they're running through mud. Ranged killers should be balanced, i.e. nerfed.
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I don't think that survivors need to be nerfed alongside Nurse. More that some maps need to get looked at around the same time, since a survivor can really only chase as long as their resources allow them to.
Nurse is one of the scant few killers that don't really care about what resources the survivor has available, which is why she's so desirable to play when you're getting Eyrie of Crows every other game.
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Here we go again. We already had that exact discussion. Stop repeating it if you still cant handle numbers.
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Kill rates do matter to the devs. It is literally listed as the reason they made the most recent changes.
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Huntress and her splash damage hatchets are balanced? Last time I played against her, it was a twitch streamer on one of the Swamp map. I was repairing the second-level generator on the boat. The Huntress was below us, about 15 metres away. She threw three hatchets way over our head, she wasn't even close. But she was able to snowball and down us when we couldn't get to a tile and she was 10 metres away? Yes. He hatchets are splash damage, they are not balanced.
There's a Fortnite creative mode where you only get credit for damaging the opponent when the shotgun is a perfectly placed headshot. There is still building involved, editing, and more dynamic movement, such as jumping, etc. Compared to Huntress, it's two different worlds. She's not balanced, she's easy. All ranged killers in DBD are easy.
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We aren't talking about huntress right now. This is about nurse and SWF, please stay on topic.
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It's not just latency. I just gave the example of getting wiped by a Huntress that couldn't aim. Doesn't mean she's not fun to play as and she can be fun to play against when she's not zoning. As far as they've already tried to make her hatchets more realistic and failed: learn from the past and try again.
As far as a balance idea for ranged killers that will never get implemented: if a ranged killer is being played, survivors get a permanent 7% haste buff for the trial. This would give survivors more dynamic movement and increase the need to have good aim on the killer side.
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Well, yes. You got me. I am fine with Nurse nerfs and definitely feel survivor could take another few nerfs. Balance wise.
In terms of what they should do is buff the ever living hell out of survivor so my queue times go back to being instant.
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Tbf Trickster is annoying as hell to face. Most of the killers people want changed in some way is because they are irritating to face. Not because they're OP.
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Don't blame me for wanting to bring balance to the game.
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you just spotted survivor bias. survivor want best killer player nerfed to the ground while the entire survivor gameplay staying exactly the same.
survivor main wants dev to balance around the strongest killer players but dev to balance around weakest survivor players. As a result, the game is completely imbalanced for good players and the bad survivor players can now escape killers with more game-experience from the killer power being ineffective.
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Pig OP please nerf
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Artist's landmine crows not making it out of PTB is added to the killer nerfs list on this forum. That was not a nerf, it was super broken and you still have to sandbag yourself to not 4k with her.
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Or we just bridge the solo q gap and then we can buff or nerf killer accordingly depending on the new power level of survivors once this has been properly put in place.
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Agreed.
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Wow, imagine nerfing slinger even more into the ground, poor fella
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Deathslinger's the killer I play the most right now. His nerfs would be a little more meaningful if survivors didn't move as if they were stuck in mud. If you can aim, you can play Deathslinger. He's never going to be in four places at one time, so he won't have map presence but he's always going to dominate the chase. STBFL needs a nerf, though, I agree with you there.
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...i meant with the 7% haste status effect you were giving ranged killers, to be "balanced"
On another note, does that mean doc would also have to go against +7% haste status effect? It's a ranged power
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