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State of the game as killer
Long queus. What were once less then a minute queu times would now be 3+.
At an almost 70% win rate of 3 kills or more, killer life was easy before the path.
Now it's a joke. The games are no challenge whatsoever.
Prepatch, mercy was a common and normal thing.
HOWEVER
The devs have admitted that they use "statistical analysis, social media, and in house testing."
This is how they rationalized, justified, and concluded with the recent changes.
Variables like:
-percentage of survivors who are not killed or sacrificed. Thus, farming, giving hatch, allowing escapes, or being any type of nice actually skews the statistics. It actually hurts the game to give people a chance. Okay. Time to play for real.
-streams, and videos as the prime example of what is actually happening in the world. Because if some youtuber is posting videos of bullying the killer, then that HAS to be what happens everwhere! Screw the casuals. They don't deserve to play. We'll use unicorn squads where everyone is comms and change the game based on a worst case scenario for the killer.
-developers who play that game, and playing what is essentially a company wide killer your friends is a solid reflection of what happens when it's the internet and people are anonymous.
Thanks for changing the game to being about playing a killer and just rolling everyone. Survivor mains are playing more and more killer because survivor life is AWFUL.
And as a killer main. The guilt is real!
Pictures below are 4k games with 3 different killers. Dc's happened just before a survivor died. I.e. not early game.
Never face camped to secure the kill. Never went out of my way to tunnel a survivor. Never ran noed, or thano.
Prepatch. 7 out of 10 games, I'd get 3 or more kills.
Postpatch. It's literally a joke. 9 out of 10 games, I'd get 3 or more kills if that. The only time the game was ever any type of challenge was when I'd run into a unicorn squad of all red rank players. 1 game out of 10. ONE. It would be 2 kills or less.
I'm a killer main. Others may blame the survivor. Others may say it would be different if this, that or something. But this is real world. Not theoretical.
Thanks for longer queu times for a boring game.
Welcome to a world of Dbd where you HAVE to be pro to even stand a chance against a killer.
I have no less then 40 dbd twitch streamers that I follow. EVERY SINGLE ONE has played less dbd since the patch. Way to kill the game, devs.
You were probably fine with just nerfing Dead Hard. You knee jerked into a killer buff while nerfing several survivor perks to the ground. Decisive strike was annoying before but part of the fun was guessing if they actually have it. Not that it mattered. 5 seconds wasn't enough to save them. You could still chase after them and finish them anyway. Now. Even if they run it. 3 seconds is basically enough to shake my head and down them anyway.
Survivors HAVE to play meta perks (because experimentation, trying things out, well, that's for people who WANT to die). They HAVE to be in comms (it doesn't even matter that much if they are. But hey, in this environment anything that improves the chances of escaping). And players need to be pro to even stand a chance (I have seen streamers, and played with, and against players with MULTIPLE thousands of hours, and.
They. ALL. Get ROLLED!
Okay. For that kind of skill level and playtime. They will have some good games. But gone are the days of a group of 4 friends stringing together a streak of 4 outs.
Thanks for nothing.
Comments
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I'm not going to watch the videos, but based on the screenshot you posted, I can tell the Survivors you're facing aren't good by any means
26 -
Beating bad survivors was never an issue.
Hell I still get some people that dont know you get staggered from falling... just because people are bad doesnt make it imbalanced.
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I know right? Look at those builds.
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Balancing around casuals is just something you don't do. I know one time someone tried to make a comparison between DBD and Mario Party or Mario Kart and say, "They balance for casuals in those games and they're popular still, so it must work." No, they just don't balance those games, because the players in those games are all playing the same role. DBD has two different roles which play completely different. But anyway, this is a ridiculous discussion. If the community of a game is big and it's competitive, you balance for the top. To do that you observe the top level games, and nothing less, and take your data from that. Leaving things that are broken in the game just because people at the bottom and mid levels didn't know how to abuse them has driven people away from this game. Of that I am sure.
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Eh, facing a competent SWF is not unicorn status. Other than that, I suppose I agree. Survivors clearly needed the second chances, I will admit. Just give them back, this is starting to get pathetic.
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I'm pretty sure you should erase the names from the screenshot, but otherwise, yeah. Survivor got really freaking hard.
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Honestly now the dust has settled on the update, my games and most of the games I see from streamers are pretty normal. The biggest issue is people giving up at 5 gens after going down quickly.
Also OP I agree that 4K’s shouldn’t be the constant standard by which killers are balanced around. But the fact is that’s not what’s being balanced around. And you bemoaning the fact that SWF’s aren’t going on 4 man escape streaks is a bit hypocritical. 4 man escapes should be outlier results that require extremely optimal coordinated play- even when playing as a SWF.
3 -
the killer is not EASY, its the fact that MMR got a giant reset, and killers are still tryharding and haven't learnt to relax, but again one game you could relax and the other you get gen rushed so its random
and it doesn't help that the survivors that were getting carried by dead hard fell down
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I highly recommend that you watch those videos. Especially the second one is very revealing on the mindset of some people.
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What I'd like to see is a graph's that shows generator completion and hook states vs mmr. I feel like 1100 to 1700 MMR is survivors just getting destroyed, few hook states and few generators getting completed. 1700 to cap (1900?) is probably a bit better but with still dominant 4k's. 1900 and above probably still shows killer struggling. So everyone's perspective on the forums might be correct....the killers lamenting survivors are the power roll may be true, if you are a top MMR killer. But I'd hazard a guess that is not where most of this games population exists.
I think that dead hard should have been nerfed, and no other changes to the basekit for killers should have been made. The perk changes themselves are kind of whatever.
2 -
Exactly. The statement "I don't want to have to sweat every game" is almost always followed by an unsaid but implied "but I still want to win.". Lose enough games by playing like a memelord and you'll start getting matched with 20 hour trappers instead of omegablink nurse, it's as simple as that. But the fact that some people expect to be able to have a soirée and still win more than they lose is entirely baffling.
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They really messed this one up, games in a state :/
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I have no clue, to be honest.
I do play Solo Queue when it comes to survivor, and I do escape around ~10 - 15% of my matches. Most do end up with 3 - 4k. The killer either tunnels right off the bat, making it a 2 Vs. 1 at four generators required to repair with Overcharge, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Dead Man's Switch - Those three perks are present 24/7, sometimes even with Call of Brine, but the last perk is in most cases Save The Best For Last.
When it comes to playing as a killer, I do usually make six or eight hooks, but I use no generator regression perks - Add-onless Spirit with Brutal Strength, Franklin's Demise, Rancor, and Save The Best For Last. I do, sometimes, replace Franklin's Demise with Shattered Hope, but because there is always a survivor with an item.. I do tend to keep Franklin's Demise. Do note, I'm still meeting SWF premades 24/7.
To be honest, I have no clue what are people talking about when it comes to the supposed high-end MMR reset. I'm not experiencing such thing.
I might add, though, that I do never tunnel or camp. I do always switch the target even if it costs me the four Tokens of Save The Best For Last. I do hate tunneling, I do find camping boring.. I'm not gonna make the experiences miserable for myself and the other people aswell.
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Oh, okay ! Sorry then ^^'
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This. Pre-Patch i escaped around 50-60% out of my games. Now it is around 20-30%. Often it is due to tunneling/camping but i think something is not working as intended with the matchmaking system at the moment. Porblem is that playing without a reasonable (and I don't mean 60% here) chance of winning is not really fun anymore.
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Even if i agree with the balancing around casuals, you cant have most casual players be destroyed by killers just because there are elite SWF in the other end of MMR that wins against killer.
How will new players react to starting dbd and being tunneled straight in their first games?
I know this is anecdotal, but i used to play with three friends that were casuals (less than 150h all of them) and they all moved to other games since they got frustrated of constantly being tunneled, camped, bleed out for the sake of easy 4k.
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While that's true, they're balancing for casual killers now, whereas before it was balanced slightly in favor of casual survivors. It's the same problem, just in the other direction. Killers used to have to win the game 3 times. Now survivors have to do the gens 3 times through CoB/Overcharge/Eruption
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Personally I have faced many cracked out surv who run circles around me , and finish gens without ever being hit . I'm good too (most games are a fairly earned 3-4k) and have gotten my ass whooped a few times since update. Keep playing and you'll find them trust me
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I mean, the survivors in your screenshot are quite obviously terrible. The builds show they are inexperienced, and their lack of BP show they didn’t do gens, and more importantly couldn’t loop. Legion is an easy killer to loop. Your issue is you aren’t playing against skilled survivors, which makes me question your numbers. I highly doubt you are winning 9/10 games 3k+. Winning that much does not bring out survivors like that. From my experience, I win a couple games, then I face a couple very hard teams that I MIGHT 3k, and I might 2k, sometimes I don’t get any of them. The game is more balanced than it has been in awhile. And the killer base kit buff was absolutely necessary, because 80% of the killers were completely laughable.
BTW, the chick in the video just wants a survivors sided game so they can bully killers again.
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Im not sure that clip you posted helps the argument much
"Like maybe I'm used to it being easy on survivor but this ######### is hard now" <- direct quote
Both sides should in fact need to put in effort to win, this is a good thing.
You shouldn't be consistently effortlessly 4king as legion either, I don't know if you play at weird times of day but teams running self-care and technician should be facing other new players. If you're letting a lot of survivors escape, stop doing that. It's nice for them but you ultimately just end up smurfing whether that's your intention or not.
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Pretty exaggerated post to be honest. If you play against a good survivor team, you are still in for quite the challenge. It's just a bit fairer now.
The problem isn't the buffs to killers, but the lack of compensation buffs to survivors. Mainly against camping and tunneling. Those are the strategies that really need to be addressed, now that they can be addressed with killer having gotten a bunch of baseline buffs.
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It's insane to me that survivors needing to try to win is a problem now. Like if you want to play casually where you just chill with the game as a background thing, you can do that. Just don't expect to be escaping a lot.
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In the second video she bemoans the fact she can’t eat, drink, engage with chat and just generally “chill” anymore when playing survivor.
There is no issue with wanting to chill when playing a game. There is an issue when someone wants to be able to chill and still win.
2 -
Exactly, and it’s still possible. I watch Skermz every night and he interacts with chat just fine in between chases and what not. She’s just an entitled survivor.
2 -
I can’t imagine being a new survivor player in 2022 for DBD. ######### is constantly changing, and there are so many game mechanics you have to recognize/remember. I’m struggling to keep up as a year 3 player.
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Killer is still very hard, surv hard when the survs play awfully and lack game sense or run around hook when killer camps instead of doing gens, as always survs are the power role
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3 minute queue: This is nothing. Stop complaining about a perfectly ordinary queue time. It would be a Bad Thing if queues were 15 minutes. 3 is a joke.
70% win rate: Yeah, sure. I haven't gotten a single 4k game and my 0k games outnumber my 1, 2, and 3 put together. Killer is not "Easy Mode," you're just playing against baby survivors.
The games are no challenge: Try using Trapper or Pig or Deathslinger or Freddy and tell me there's No Challenge.
Just another survivor main who made a new account to try to pretend that the recent patch is some kind of Apocalyptic Event and therefore Survivors should get all four meta perks back to full power (while killers keep their NINE nerfed perks intact and lose all their 0.3 speed increases on top of it)
It's transparent, and it's pathetic.
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Playing killer is like play hello kitty super cute adventures
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Wrong, focus on having a better mindset true to reality, not a sore awful mindset, focus on what matters.
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I’m sorry if you need to feel powerful when you 4k, but now killer is easy as hell
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Enough of the post patch melodrama already.
The guilt is not real its a video game.
These videos show yet again when people say they want "balance" what they are asking for is chosen role bias.
Killers got a pretty good buff this latest patch, were they over tuned a lil? maybe... but it takes a lot of games to demonstrate that across a varied player base.
A couple of weeks of whiny overreaction to changes is just that... whiny overreaction to changes. It adds very little.
Especially when the primary complaint seems to be "I can't listen to music, watch a movie and eat lunch and still escape anymore."
My god you mean you need to focus on the game your playing in order to do well! The horror!
3 -
oh god another thread for survivors that they need they crutch to be decent in the game
1 -
now you can listen to music, watch a movie and eat lunch and still 4k without using headphones
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Wrong, killer is not easy, focus on having a good mindset true to reality, dont be of bad sport, dont be in a negative mindset, focus on what matters
2 -
What you're leaving out is that survivors who are learning should be facing killers who are also learning. Sometimes it doesn't happen that way because of matchmaking, but then that's a matchmaking problem. If someone like Pinhead was buffed for example, it doesn't mean that he would do that much better against newer players. Those new players will most likely have lost anyway or, what sometimes happens, is the killer is a new player as well and so they allow people to escape because they weren't that good with the killer. This applies to killer abilities, perk loadouts, and strategies like tunneling. I could not properly tunnel when I was a new killer, because I didn't know what that was, and I would get caught up on chasing all the body blockers instead. And other the other side of the coin, if Pinhead were to get nerfed, like he did, survivors wouldn't suddenly start beating him more at low level. Those survivors usually also play bad, which stops them on capitalizing on the killer's weakness. But what that does do to killers at top level is it makes them less viable, meaning that by picking that killer to play, the player is accepting that against certains teams, there's absolutely no chance they can win, which should never be the case in a skill-based game. That causes less killer variation, and causes more of what we see these days which is Nurse and Blight with meta builds every time, because the killer player is scared to play with anything else for fear of those unwinnable matches.
There's nothing you can really do to shield new players from tunneling or camping, because no matter how the game has been balanced, some killers are still going to try to do it. But what you do is you teach those people how to loop, how to hide, and what perks to use to counter tunneling and camping. Nobody wants to do that for some reason, and instead balance the game around casuals, leading to the situations I talked about above.
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It's disappointing that many including yourself have fallen into this false hysteria that Call Of Brine/Overchagre/Eruption is this uncounterable easy combo that killers have. It's anything but, and I shouldn't have to explain why but I will again for you. Here's how that perk combo plays out against good survivors: The killer kicks the gen that 2 survivors have almost finished, one gets chased away after the killer kicks it (in which case the killer has given them a gigantic lead), the other runs off and comes back in 5-10 seconds when it's safe, taps the gen and hits the Overcharge skill check, making the killer's kick pointless, and finishes the gen. I don't know why you all think that a survivor is just going to leave a gen that was almost done and let it go down to 0. It's unfortunate if they're on a gen when Eruption goes off, but then they can just aggro the killer and not lose anything for not being able to do gens since they're in chase anyway. Essentially survivors counter this combo by playing normally, gen tapping and taking chases. If this is about how OP the combo is against casuals, then we shouldn't even be having this conversation.
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Why cause technician? Shake up the meta am i right? lmao
2 -
thats a weird way to say "some killers are bad but i don't accept that and only believe survs can be bad at the game." fact of the matter is that the nerf went to far. next patch dev's will make it so all killers can 1shot down survs because gods fordbid you have to work for a kill and be able to tunnel and camp someone out of the game at 5 gennies.
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you can't compare someone with 10k hours on the game though xd to someone with less than half that most likely xd Skerms is amazing but again. different leagues and such.
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Okay, but if you were winning 70% of games before the patch, you also weren't who they were balancing the game around. Kill rates for casual killers weren't anywhere near that high.
My kill rates have skyrocketed, but that's probably just because I still have someone give up or kill themselves on hook every other game.
If you're getting 90% kill rates now, your MMR will adjust you to an appropriate level.
There also needs to be time for survivors to adapt to the new meta. Survivors are still stronger than killers overall if they play correctly, but killer gameplay has hardly changed at all, while survivor gameplay is dramatically different (and not necessarily worse) with one infamous perk being removed and others becoming unviable as well. Killers still just have to kick gens and down people, while survivors have to formulate entirely new stratgies.
It'll be months before we know what the long-term effects of the patch will be. When survivors stop throwing their little temper tantrum, new strategies are developed, and MMR has time to adjust, then we can take step back and have a discussion on it.
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First things first. Based on the screenshot those were bad survivors, point blank, so this wasn't the best evidence for your claims
Secondly, despite that previous statement I made -I mostly said it because everyone else has or will say it, not because it matters too much- you are mostly correct sadly.
The game has always been as follows: new survivors will die to a new killer, 99% of the time. For the vast majority of players the games are usually even or killer sided. At HIGH mmr, survivors crush and bully killers and it's very difficult for them. Thats why players like OTZ are so popular in the first place- the ability to crush it as killer at that high level. My insane win streak finally recently brought me to that mmr and I regret it. This patch made killer so easy that now I'm getting almost entirely pro survivors and can't win at all. But the games those pro survivors aren't in my match....it's just too easy and unfair. 4ks at zero or one gen done. It's either 0k or 4k every match. I have not had a single game that wasn't that since the recent patch happened. Actually I had a single 3k now that I think of it. so maybe 100+ games, i had 90+ 4k, around 4-5 0k against some absolutely cracked players- one guy I went to his stream and he had 9k hours on survivor. I may have a few hundred on killer at best, and I'm not sure about that. Horribly impossible unfair match. Not angry at that survivor, he deserves to win if he has played and practiced that much, but there's no reason for me to play him. Let alone the other three in the lobby. But the game after his I played against some potatoes who were so bad I swear they had to have bought the game that week.
I think behavior needs to revisit their matchmaking to address this issue because the game balancing isn't working out
Also looking at the new survivor perks from project W, I feel the survivors may get some helpful buffs, but it seems to me it'll just be a minor impact on the majority of players and make the discrepancy at high mmr worse than ever.
tl/dr this patch recent patch combined with the ridiculous match making system they use now has really made it boring like you said. Every single match is 4k or 0k. And I can immediately tell at first chase which way the game will go with astounding accuracy.
1 -
yeahhhhh.....past six months I have lost almost never as killer. New patch I've won even more. I know we can't see mmr but suddenly a few days ago BOOOM. Every survivor is playing like Ayrun and JRM and I can't do anything at all. Really frustrating after winning for so long. Im' not mad at the survivors, some with 9k hours, they deserve to win after getting so good at the game! But my win rate did NOT mean I was ready for the mmr the game seems to think I'm in at ALL. It's starting to feel like there are new players and pros, and nothing in between sadly.
Its frustrating to call out loud as someone watches me play every single move/loop/360/flashlight as its about to happen, and either 1) boringly call it out and outplay it, or 2.) call it out but the survivor is so cracked at the game I still fall for it and lose even though I know its coming due to the sheer skill gap.
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Maybe you’re bad, if the nerf went to far for you. There are plenty of survivors doing just fine. 😴
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Yea you’re not wrong. 😂 She’s still annoying, and nobody I’d remotely care to watch with that mindset.
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lmao nah. i know my skill. i also know how to adjust to the change. the point is. if bhvr only caters to those who can easily adjust because they no lifed the game(im talking about me here) then they effectively box out those who got into the game in the past year ish give or take some months. maybe less. its not bad to rework things. i enjoy both killer and surv though i do play surv more. but my only point is that every change isn't always a good one.
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OP... you forgot about why Killers run certain perks (and I didn't read -I admit it- if anyone else has or not
Corrupt- Map design
Ruin- don't have to kick Gens and more regression
Those two are the biggest changes IMO
1 -
In the PTB i waited for 40 minutes to get 1 killer game. In the live version i usually wait around 5+ (sometimes 10-15) minutes as killer)
The problem with this is it is almost impossible to get clear data on this game as there are way too many variables.
Im not a good killer by any means. But when I get 2 games back to back with not optimal survivors the third game is me going against 3 thousand+ hours survivors. Most are swf.
The balancing and mostly the matchmaking are the issue. The devs think because you win a few games you immediatly are a god and need to be matched with people who play nothing else than DBD in their life and make it their profession or what have you.
DBD is mostly based on circumstances and unless that changes there will always be long cue times, there will always be games where you either get trashed or you completely dominate the opponent.
2 -
Exactly! Escaping is nothing more than bonus points and getting matched with/against better players. If one isn´t happy with how sweaty it is, then the mmr will eventually give them more relaxing matches after they died often enough. Just don´t tank the mmr on purpose. Thats all i ask my teammates for.
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Yes, it really is baffling. If someone wants relaxing matches, then play accordingly and the mmr will take care of the rest.
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Watching those videos your in the wrong mmr. Or your playing late at night where mmr isn't a thing. EITHER way I want those survivors cause mine are doing 5 gens in less then 8 minutes.
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