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New Dead Hard is even stronger against a lot of killers than it was before.
Picture this;
-You hit an insane curve as Hillbilly.
-You hit a sharp flick as Blight around a tight loop.
-You throw a perfect hatchet as Huntress.
-You perfectly guess the survivor's pathing as Hag.
In all of these situations, your mechanical and/or decision making skill is invalidated by the survivor pressing a button. No longer do you just get a cooldown, the survivor also gets a speed boost.
If you're playing Billy, it's like you're always running speed limiter. If you're playing Huntress, you're almost guaranteed to have to hit them three times. If you're playing Blight, you can't do anything flashy and have to waste more bumps to get a hit. As Hag, you can no longer rely on instantly hitting survivors after teleporting.
This isn't healthy for the game. It isn't healthy for a player's skill to be invalidated by "good timing" on a survivor's part.
I've used DH as survivor aswell, and every time I use it against a killer like this, I don't feel like I outplayed them. I feel like I got carried by a poorly designed mechanic that rewards sloppy play.
Comments
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Play some trapper and you'll notice the difference
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They still have to get thier timing right.
25 -
dead hard is fine now
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how is this any different from pre-rework dead hard? all these situations happened with old dead hard.
maybe survivor should stop d/cing and suicide on hook. dead hard is not dead. it just has higher skill-cap and the killer can properly counter it by waiting it out.
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Except old Dead Hard would've done the same, plus being able to be used for distance, plus they wouldn't have to mend afterwards. Plus the fact that old Dead Hard needed to be much less we'll timed than current Dead Hard, and that it could be used for distance- like babes DH is a minor inconvenience now rather than the literal gamebreaking perk it was before.
It's weaker in every sense of the word, especially as the speed boost + successful cooldown both got reduced.
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But old Dead Hard doesn't give the 3s speed boost after being hit. Even for killers with movement abilities, that's massive. It's the difference between Dead Harding in a deadzone and still being stuck there, and being able to use that speed to get to a different loop. Remember, that's the same exact speed boost you get from Sprint Burst, Lithe, and Balanced Landing. It's massive.
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Because old Dead Hard didn't give you a massive speed boost after being hit. You dodged it, but still were stuck in your old position. Now you get a 150% speed boost for 3s. That's the same as Sprint Burst or Lithe.
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Timing is not hard at all. I played half a dozen survivor games with it and only missed like twice.
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Dead hard might be stronger in some situations, but now it isn't as easy to get value out of. The main problem about dead hard before was it being used to get to a pallet or window for distance. Now the survivor must tank a hit with it to actually get value and then be forced to mend.
I agree that dead hard has some situations where it was stronger than the prior dead hard, but overall, it has become a more balanced perk and is definitely weaker than before.
BT hits and OTR hits both invalidate dead hard, while before, you were still able to use it. You also forgot to mention that dead hard is now useless against Deathslinger and Legion. The killers you mentioned would have had the same problems as before with old dead hard.
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Insert Legion or death slinger completely invalidating the perk. dead hard in it's current form is fine.
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3s? Ever since 6.1.0 (when Dead Hard Was nerfed) its been 1.8s, down from 2s. Where did you get 3 from??
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It's annoying as trickster when I could basically ignore it before
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So because one or two killers counter it, it's fine? I don't get that logic.
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The speed boost when being injured is 3s, is it not?
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No, I'm just mentioning that as a side note.
new dead hard is fine because the biggest issue with it was people using it to get distance. That aspect of it is gone.
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But for some killers its a complete non issue. Legion, Deathslinger, and Trapper dont even know it exists anymore. But yes I agree, something like Dead Hard will always be unhealthy for the game since reacting to swings is extremely easy.
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No, it isn't. It is 1.8s, and before that was 2.
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Eh, at least they have to time it now.
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😂😂 I can’t believe some people ARE STILL CRYING about the new Dead Hard..
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To be fair, you weren’t “stuck in your old position”, you did actually rush forward a few meters. Not as much as the speed boost after a hit but it wasn’t negligible either. In fact that extra distance rushed was exactly what a lot of survivors specifically used the perk for.
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Saying that old dead hard did the same is a bit of a lie. You could dead hard and still be hit by a blight's lethal rush, because it offered no more protection than just temporary i-frames which could still result you getting hit at the end of the i-frames.
That said, Dead hard is both stronger in protection since endurance is by far more reliable than i-frames and weaker because endurance cannot be stacked and it provides no distance. And as long as you actually get hit and trigger endurance you'll end up farther than a normal dead hard. That said if the killer misses you for some reason (the amount of times I've had a killer whiff when I dead harded is too high) then you are still screwed.
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As a killer main, and respectfully, just leave it alone. The new dead hard is completely fine. It’s not broken, annoying at times yes, but not broken. It is even easier to wait it out once you learn they have it.
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Why do people always bemoan pressing a button? It's a video game. Pressing buttons is all you do!
Imagine being like "man, it sucks that the killer hit me there! All he did was click m2. I don't feel I got outplayed" or "I hate beingg pallet stunned! All survivors do is press a button, and drop a pallet on me. I'm not being outplayed"
Like... Pressing buttons is kind of how video games work. You can complain something is too strong, but complaining about how it's just pressing a button makes no sense at all.
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I'm perfectly fine with this, it requires the survivor to time it perfectly, then they have to go and mend, so you can drop the chase after that if you really want, this is such a healthy improvement and I love it
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The point of DH is to take a hit and not go down. "You can take a beating" has literally always been in the description, thus explaining what it's supposed to be used for. Not to dash 3 meters to make it to a pallet or window in time like Naruto. To take a hit and not go down. When timed right, which I see a lot now, it works as intended. People just need to get better at timing it properly, which again I'm already seeing.
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It's .5 seconds, the survivor would kinda have to stand still to focus on getting it
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Wait, I haven't read the full description, can you not use DH when needing to mend?
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You people are never satisfied.
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You can't stack endurance anymore, so if you need to mend, then you can't use DH to tank a hit. You can use DS to get rid of the mend, but then you wasted a perk slot to pull that off once.
In addition, since MoM has been changed as well, you won't be able to take a hit with MoM and then a hit with DH.
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Just play Deathslinger, it does literally nothing against him.
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Technically you can use it, but it doesn't get you anything and locks you in animation. Endurance does not prevent a down when you are in deep wounds; DH still gives you Endurance if you are in deep wounds but it won't actually tank a hit.
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The amusing part of the opening post was:
It isn't healthy for a player's skill to be invalidated by "good timing" on a survivor's part.You literally just said player skill shouldn't be countered by player skill.
I was never a big user of DH and I have to say, since the rework, I definitely find it something that requires some skill. The few times I've used it, I've just ended up on my face, on the floor. 0.5s is not a lengthy window.
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If im seeing a lot of DHs, I will start running alch ring. Alch ring is quite literally the biggest counter to DH now.
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Its Stronger but it feels fairer because Need to Time it right and is no longer a noskill press e to Escape busted Perk
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Ig I can see how it is annoying. But honestly I think it's fine once they have to time it right. I would rather have this version of dh than the old one.
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I put good timing in quotations because I don't believe that is at all skillful. Like I said, I was able to use it just fine while being a horrible survivor player. The timing is forgiving, especially against chase killers, and invalidates THEIR skill significantly as there's nothing they can do to outplay you. With old Dead Hard you were barely given any distance, but now you get nearly an entire sprint burst to get to another loop or hide.
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*laughs in Trickster*
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I feel like you play entirely M1 killers if this is your take on it.
Against Hillbilly it's literally by far the strongest perk possible because it effectively gives him speed limiter after the first down of the match.
Against Huntress it almost guarantees she has to throw three hatchets to down.
Similar issues with Hag, Pyramid Head, Bubba, Demo, Oni, Nemesis, and Artist.
Against Nurse and Blight it's extremely strong, though that's forgiven due to how busted they are.
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Though I will admit there's equally as many killers it does next to nothing against. But I don't think that's a good justification for a perk that's situationally very strong.
It doesn't really do anything against;
Trapper, Doctor, Freddy, Pig, Clown, Legion, Ghostface, Myers, Deathslinger, Trickster, Pinhead, Onryo, and Dredge.
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I played about 1000h of killer, and I can honestly say that I no longer care if a survivor uses DH now, as the game isn't in the perks stranglehold any more. When breathing down a survivors neck I sometimes get PTSD of waiting and baiting out DH, but then I remember that its all in the past and can't hurt me anymore. 9/10 times I then swing and down the survivor. 4/5 times when I miss, they just juked me in the most embarrassing way possible and I go and sulk in a corner, questioning my lifes decisions. That 1/5 times were they actually then use DH correctly and invalidate my attack I giggle inside and salute them and stay hot on their heels, more often then not downing them soon after, but at least we both got a fighting chance in this chase and they at least got a couple more seconds out of it.
I am really BAFFLED that BHVR pulled off the seemingly impossible: breaking DHs stranglehold on the game and nerfing it, without "nuking it from orbit" and "nerfing it into oblivion". Nowadays you see a healthy variety of exhaustion perks and DH is still a thing, but its powerlevel is comparable to the other exhaustion perks and its strong side, ie being usable on demand in a sticky situation and no other activation condition, is held in check by its very short active time and a lot of opportunity the mess things up. I never thought that I would ever say this, but DH is now actually a fair and well designs perk.
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DH is now 0.5 second so would argue that there is a skill in pressing that one button at exactly the right time. Have seen survivors stuff up the timing more often than not and dont use it myself. Either way, DH has been nerfed into oblivion off the back of a big killer buff so I dont think there is much for you to complain about TBH.
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I preferred the old dead hard. Accidently hitting a BT survivor with demon strike was annoying enough, now survivors can also freely negate being injured by a wooden club by a 7ft monster. Takes skill to use so no slant on survivors, but as Oni the DH is a bit of a nuisance.
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Or Deathslinger. Cant Dead Hard his harpoon anymore.
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I agree. I'm very impressed that BHVR pretty much got it right with this nerf. Some of the other nerfs/buffs missed the mark slightly, but Dead Hard really does feel like it's in a good spot.
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I do understand your point that Dead Hard can still be SUPER strong against some killer powers. However, the bottom line is that far fewer people are running it than before (partly because it requires just a bit more skill, partly because it is not that effective against a big percentage of Killers).
I think the perk is in a much, much better place in the overall perk pool. It is by no means a must-have perk for the majority of survivors like it was before. Can it still cause frustration sometimes? Sure, but I would not for a second want to go back to pre-patch Dead Hard.
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It’s really not easy. A non lunge swing happens in 10-15 frames, which requires a reaction in a little less than .3 seconds. That’s not an easy reaction window.
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non-lunges are not reactable by design, the average reaction time is .25 sec, or 15 frames on a logic scale based off of 60fps, and thats before factoring in any latency. Lunges are supposed to be reactable, normal swings are not. You're supposed to use it on reaction for stuff like lunges, while making a read for faster interactions like normal swings.
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Yes.. and good killers will combat dead hard with a non lunge hit. Most survivors aren’t using dead hard in reaction to a swing coming, it’s being used at moments they HOPE the killer will swing. Or it’s being used while baiting the killer to swing.
IE, popping DH while greeding a pallet, faking a window, or trying to spin the killer.
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Why you chainsaw injured survivor as hillbilly? And agains't blight dead hard needs to be strong. Still not so many use dh anymore as it's lot weaker and easy to bait out with m1 killers. Survivors have to time it absolutly perfectly now if killer is expecting it.
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They've made the perk still counter stronger killers while making it pretty useless against weaker ones and requires you to be pretty lucky
Its fine
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