You Still Haven't Fixed The Grind - Open Letter to BHVR
Hi. This is an open letter to BHVR. We need to increase BP gains as in the new progression system,it's pretty painful to start out,compared to the old one and there are still a lot of issues with the progression system.
This thread combines many,many ideas brought to you by the community and yours truly. They're split up into short term and long-term changes. If you implement at least half of these changes,the new player experience with the grind will significantly improve.
NEWEST DEV UPDATE ADDRESSED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST.
THE IMPORTANT CHANGES THAT NEED TO COME SOON
These are the changes that the devs should really try to bring out sooner than later,if they care about the progression system,especially the new player experience.
- Increase most,if not all scoring events by 25%. The new caps are neat,but we don't get to them a lot of the time.
- Killer point scores are extremely inconsistent and about half of the killer roster has terrible Devious or Brutality gains. Some killers naturally have a lot less Hunter gains,such as Nurse,Blight & Wraith as they chase either indirectly or while cloaked. We need to bring them in line and buff those killers who don't gain BPs in certain categories because they use their power.
- Survivors when they get focused out of the game do not gain any BPs besides Boldness. This can be solved by uncapping select categories,but still capping the overall gains at 40K or giving the chased survivor 25% of other Survivors' BP gains.
- Most of the current BP offerings are quite literally not worth their Bloodweb prices. We need to remove all of the yellow and brown per-category offerings and bring the green ones to 150% bonus BPs.
- Sealed Envelopes & Hollow Shells should be removed and replaced with a new version of the Bound Envelope which is available to both Killers & Survivors. It will now bring a 33% increase to everyone's BP gains. It's rarity will be reduced to Uncommon.
- Incentivize the Fun Factor with a BP earning modifier. When survivors take more than 1 protection hits or get teammate saves or when a Killer hooks all 4 survivors before a survivor is dead,give them a 50% bonus applied on top of all their in-match BP gains + offering BP gains.
THE LONG-TERM CHANGES
The following changes are something BHVR should consider for a longer term development,they're not exactly required,but would be a lot of really good stuff for the game's progression and BP gains overall.
- Killer Meme addons should give you a flat 100% bonus to all your BPs earned post match.
- Give us an option to automatically go through as many bloodweb levels or a bloodweb level. Spending BPs post rank reset feels like a slog.
- An introduction of a Shrine Of Blood mechanic could be a neat idea. The Shrine of Blood could allow you to burn offerings and addons/items you dont care for a return of 50% of the orignal node cost. It would also allow you to purchase the addons you're looking for at double the cost. This could be integrated with the new Loadout System. Whenever you lack an offering or addon,you'll have the option to auto-complete your loadout,which will come at a higher,more hefty BP cost,but will be a good convenience for players with lots of BP.
- Speaking of the Shrines. The current Shrine gives you a miserably low amount of 150K BPs for 2000 Iri Shards. I believe this should be brought straight up to one million BPs. For investing a currency you earn through a lot of playtime (since you already got both the shards and those perks unlocked at T3) and a currency that can buy cosmetics and characters,you should get much,much more bloodpoints.
- Finally,I suggest an overhaul to the BP offerings as a concept. As they're a big part of the progression system,I think it's only fair we give them a more special role. BP Offerings will now a secondary offering slot on your Killer or Survivor's loadout,with the offerings shared across all Survivors and Killers. This will speed up the grind as you dont have to compromise between grind/game-changing offerings and not waste all the BP offerings on Killers/Survivors you dont play.
FINAL CHANGE TO CONSIDER - PERK TIERS
While I understand that you've already worked on a full blown Prestige Rework that's kind of tied to the tier aspect of the perks,I believe it's really silly to keep the perk tiers for much longer.
Here would be a few reasons why:
- This affects newer players a lot more. Their Tier 1 version of perks are often hilariously worse than their Tier 3 counterparts and can worsen their experience with a perk by a long margin.
- Perk Tiers limit your design opportunities. Myself and others while pondering about perk reworks and such have often found ourselves thinking "damn this would be a cool perk but I dont even know how make tiered versions of it". Removing the tiers would solve this issue.
- It will PERMANENTLY reduce the grind by 33% and make getting any new general perks or general perks in general on all of your characters much smoother.
I believe the changes outlined above will make the progression system feel better and incentivize more fun gameplay. The new BP offerings will also more often give Bonus BPs to everyone in the match. All the long-term changes will completely change the way the progression feels and allow people to focus a lot more on the gameplay of their matches.
If you disagree or have any suggestions,please tell me in the comments. I hope this thread spawns more discussion in the community and brings these (in my humble opinion) great changes to the game.
DEVELOPER UPDATE - AUGUST 23rd
So instead of addressing the BP gain issues BHVR now did a band-aid fix to lower the bloodweb node costs.
This is the laziest change you could have done and does not do much,at all for the new player experience. We need more BP gains,not an ever-so-slight reduction in BP spending.
This does not incentivize fun matches and the reasoning of "archives and dailies are better now" is weak,as they're a secondary to the game. Dailies can be for the role you dont play,same for archives. A lot of people simply don't do them. These changes also do not incentivize the fun factor or feel rewarding. Cheap and bad.
MATCHMAKING INCENTIVES NERF - AUGUST 30TH
As I write this,it's August 30th, Matchmaking Incentives have dropped and...they're now garbage. Instead of keeping the multiplicative nature they had up to the latest PTB they made them additive and they act like an Escape Cake at the best of times.
This re-ignites my immense concerns with the grind as incentives are worthless now.
Comments
-
Hopefully we'll get to see at least some of these in the game at some point.
0 -
Most of the current BP offerings are quite literally not worth their Bloodweb prices. We need to remove all of the yellow and brown per-category offerings and bring the green ones to 150% bonus BPs.
I don’t think that’s actually the case. A Brown bloodpoint offering costs 3000 points in a specific category and gives a 50% bonus. So long as you earn at least 6000 base points out of the max 10000 in that category the offering will pay for itself. Yellow offerings cost 4000 and give 75% bonus only needs 5333 points to break even, and Green single category offerings give 100% bonus and cost 5000 so only need 5000 to break even.
So while it’s true you will lose points on your offering if you do badly in a match, as long as you do reasonably ok you’ll at least break even or earn bonus points at the end. And if you win the match you’ll definitely get bonus points, even a brown can be worth 5000 if you cap out its category.
2 -
I think relying on getting more than 50% of a category for your "BP BOOST" offering to not be a waste is a bit stupid. You want these offerings to actually speed up the grind,not give you an extra 150 BPs if you perform really well.
6 -
I don’t think anybody “relies” on brown offerings, yellows and greens are common enough that you can use those every match and never touch a brown in the first place.
But yeah, I wouldn’t turn away increasing the bonuses on the offerings to make up for their costs.
0 -
I absolutely Freaking agree with this gentleman. Finally there's someone reasonable on these forums. Damn, long time no see.
And your ideas are great! Very, very balanced and fun changes. These would bring fresh air to most annoying parts of the game!
we also have these MFers that need to be buffed hella lot. I think they should begin with 100% bonus in a category and go up to 300% for green ones in order for them to be reasonable.
But tbh - I don't expect any of these changes to be implemented as bhvr is clearly satisfied with the amount of grind. They don't have to progress through the game so they can't taste their own medicine sadly.
9 -
I didnt say rely on the brown offerings,although I could've worded that better. The meaning was "why do you have to put a ton of effort to BREAK EVEN with an offering that's supposed to improve your grind"
yellows and greens are common enough that you can use those every match and never touch a brown in the first place.
Yeah but then yellow and brown offerings are just a hindrance and add to the grind :P
0 -
They re-arranged the grind but it doesn't feel improved.
We still waste insane amounts of BP on things we don't want and will never use. If I have to get through two purple meme add on nodes to buy a good green one, the green add on actually costs 17k. That's complete BS, for lack of a better term.
The removal of tiers is the solution in combination with the prestige rework. I know the devs say it's too time consuming or difficult to do, but they shouldn't have waited this long to address the grind in the first place. It's only going to get worse, and that is the long term answer. Prestige rework+keeping perk tiers is a band aid that falls off after two chapters when everyone has to prestige all over again, and we'll be here talking about the asinine grind again.
Effectively cutting BP gain in half while parroting the "grind reduction" line is some high tier gaslighting. Really bizarre stuff.
The whole issue has been handled in a bizarre fashion. BHVR seems weirdly committed to having an adversarial relationship with the playerbase on QoL issues like the grind.
2 -
Nobody relies on any of these offerings as all of them are clearly trash -.-.
Even if they were 300% nobody would rely on them. They just wouldn't be considered total garbage anymore.
1 -
Not a man,but thank you! I've always felt this way about the BP offerings and the progression. Since they removed BBQ/WGLF,I think it's about time we addressed BP gains right now. @/Mandy also mentioned that Incentives aren't meant to help with the grind so here's hoping they actually look at this.
1 -
Mmmm. Respectfully disagree. I think a lot of what you mentioned here could be solved by making addons good and offerings good.
Or we could instead look into making something like a Shrine Of Secrets but for Bloodwebs? A shop to sell stuff you dont need at half the rate and buy at double the rate.
0 -
I don't want a blood market or whatnot because I don't want to spend more time messing around with the bloodweb. I just want to play the game and already find the bloodweb to be too time consuming. I would rather be able to buy whatever I want to use directly from the loadout screen.
0 -
I think it would be fair for BHVR to add a button that would automatically just do the most optimal or just a random route of the bloodweb in one button (if you have the BPs for it). Could be neat.
0 -
Good ideas here to makes offerings better the brown and yellow bp ones are just terrible. Grind is bigger than ever and bhvr still took away BBQ bo bonus which was stupidies idea ever that's why killers camp ans tunnel more as they have no reason to leave hook or to go chase someone else. They just want the match quickly over if there is nothing to gain. But if there is even one cake killers will always play more fair then but that does not happen every match.
0 -
In reality the just need to make the old BP perks base kit.
These helped with tunneling and many like myself playing killer used this as a goal to reach. You could even add stacks to killers for snuffing out boons, sacrifice on 3rd hook.
Survivor make stacks earned by unhooking, taking hits, destroying totems/setting up boons, gens, getting a slug up, losing chase etc. Since everyone has it the stacks need opened up.
Basically every action you do well should be part of the gains.
Queue incentives they could change those to double xp instead of BP if they worry about the BP economy.
Right now the smaller webs with terrible addons (the fix didnt help for what i see) along with the removal of BP perks makes the grind feel alot worse.
Players like myself who played a few chars are now worse off.
12 -
Double XP will be a non-incentive imo.
Also if you noticed,I did introduce a version of the BP perks as base-kit,but tweaked a bit,to hopefully promote a bit more fun :)
0 -
I dont have that experience personally.but I do believe an incentive to have a "more fun,less optimal" playstyle is good. Hence the condition of "no survivor died" for the base-kit BBQ and the non-gen focused WGLF stack system.
The idea behind all the offering changes is to make there be less trash that you dont ever use.
1 -
I dont know man, I got 1.5 million BP yesterday.
0 -
On rank reset. Ha-ha. Very funny.
1 -
Another respectful gentleman.
It's about damn time to get grind readressed properly. Prestige rework is fine but combined with WGLF and BBQ removal the grind actually feels way worse than before.
0 -
I feel the xp is better as a queue incentive afterall they removed the BP perks as they did not want players to feel they should have to use them and now those players may feel they have to play a role they don't enjoy as much or lose out on something they had in the past.
Since BP is the main grind element it makes sense to have it for both roles at the same time and not give more to try and fix the queue issue. They should be used to reward interactive gameplay for the side each player enjoys imo.
1 -
I feel like you have lots of hours in the game and have most of the progression done. 90% of the playerbase WANTS BPs and couldnt care less about XP.
it makes sense to have it for both roles at the same time
Oh but it does! It simply means that in your MMR brackets both on Survivor and Killer (which are different) there's a need for players.
0 -
Edited the post and added a few things of note.
0 -
Another agree. killers took BBQ because of BP bonus. Side effect of this was reduction of tnneling and camping because they could see next targets.BHVR decided to get rid of it in the name of health of the game...
0 -
It would be interesting to see a version of BBQ to be introduced as base-kit to the game to encourage killers not only with BPs but with info not to proxy and camp.
0 -
I think that aura reading is a little bit too much. Overbuff to the killer. There should be some sort of incentive NOT to camp, i.e. bonus points for every action with a survivor encountered at least 40m away from the hook etc.
There should also be some sort of compensation for survivors camped like bonus points in every category for every second when a killer is within 12m from the hook
We should Encourage people not to camp and give some compensation for players affected by unfun mechanics. Simple as that. Camping and tunneling shouldn't be forbidden, but there should simply be a reason for players to avoid such behaviours.
0 -
I use yellows on and off since I don't always have a green one handy.
0 -
I think grind is fine, tbf. Role incentives should be enough.
0 -
I suggested a BP offering rework that I think would be better than simply doubling all their values, as I doubt BHVR are ever going to go beyond 100% bonuses:
No responses yet though... 🤔
This wouldn't be a drastic change, but it would make all BP offerings worthwhile to use. As it stands the browns are virtually worthless. The new raised category BP cap has helped things, but not by much, especially as we haven't received any further BP score events to make it easier to reach those caps.
0 -
I really hope that this branch will affect the grind, pumping characters after the update has not become easier
0 -
Yeah I really wish we got some acknowledgment of some of our great ideas to improve the game.
This branch?
0 -
sorry for my bad english i like the ideas here
0 -
ah,should've guessed. that's ok!
0 -
btw,the intial grind to unlock a few perks on one/two characters at Tier 3 has risen, especially with no BBQ/WGLF so that's why it felt like garbage lately.
hopefully they'll implement some of these changes and actually have the grind in a good place.
0 -
addendum 2 added,added an addition about the additional bloodpoints the shrine should add to your account.
0 -
All your suggestions feel great. I hope someone from BHVR can see it.
1 -
I really hope so. They need to address that the grind feels way worse for newer players now as your BP gains are 100% lower and you have to grind more to unlock the perks on the one character you want them on for survivor. This will also just make the progression experience less frustrating as there will not be useless garbage in your inventory constantly.
0 -
They move those topics to feedback section so less people see this and comment xD
Forget anything changes for the better in this game.
0 -
I mean it's fair enough but legit nobody checks this section... Kills the traction
0 -
exactly. Just forget about this topic and create one more in the discussion section again.
0 -
I dunno about that. That would be literally rule breaking,lol.
Anyhoo,rewrote the thread a bit,should be nicer for new readers and for BHVR to process. Also touched upon the subject of Perk Tiers.
0 -
Have all characters unlocked and only prestiged Haddie before the patch as the only prestige for me ever because they said this was a good idea, after that I got all other characters (have all survivors and killers) on prestige 4-6 automatic and..there is no grind for perks now? And items and addons I'm pretty loaded and 1000+ cakes left so I get that new players complain, but we have all been new you just need to play the game we can't get everything just like that, earn it! There will be future events, new cakes etc.
0 -
The smaller webs give better stuff as you level up your prestige, which also makes prestiging more expensive and can force you to buy expensive crap you don't want, like that pesky RDP offering:
1 -
yeah I don't like the "more rare nodes" things at all,I more often just get more useless expensive stuff
2 -
the initial grind rose by 4M BPs~ roughly.
It's also now double the size it was before,with no BBQ or WGLF.
if you got everyone up to high prestiges that means you had tons of perks unlocked on everyone... you must have grinded for thousands and thousands of hours jfc lmao
0 -
I also feel it's pretty unfair to just say "grind lol" when getting meta perks and good builds is vital to performing well and getting lots of BPs, especially for newer players.
0 -
incentives double total amount of bps you get in a match. if 5 flans used you can get almost 500k bp in one match. if only 1 you can get up to 160k bps. i think score events should be changed + meme add-ons you mentioned i agree. brown-yellow offerings too. bloodweb prices could be cut off by 1k bloodpoints and it would be nearly perfect
0 -
it's not a 100% all the time.. and not in the role you want to play necessarily
0 -
When are incentives coming back btw ? is there an update today ?
0 -
when 6.2.0 drops
0 -
why are you asking in this thread,anyway
0
