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2 hooking every survivor is the WORST strategy
I’m more addressing tunneling rather than camping. Camping itself is a boring play style for BOTH parties.
on the other hand, tunneling is ABSOLUTELY valid, and I don’t see why it shouldn’t be.
unless the killer you’re playing is nurse or blight (high mobility) why should the killer ignore the injured one that came off the hook?? That’s outrageous.
and enough with the “you must play by how I feel” rules. That’s ridiculous, there are plenty of counters to tunneling.
~DS: although nerfed, if you make sure you go down near a pallet or window can give you more distance to extend the chase
~ BORROWED TIME: it was buffed you guys, use it! It’s really good
oh and the best perk of all
kindred:
EVERY SOLO should run this perk. Not only does it tell you if the killer is patrolling so people can do gens or go for save. But it shows who’s closer so who.can go for save. WHY WOULD NOBODY RUN THIS?
Comments
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It might be the worst strategy but if I can 2 hook everyone before killing them all I certainly feel like I had a good round where I accomplished something rather than taking the easy way out.
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Sadly the game is designed so that the best tactic for both sides makes the game incredibly unfun for the other. Gen rush as survivors, tunnel and proxy camp as killer. That's the game.
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I think it's pretty well known playing "nice" is a losing strategy against half decent Survivors
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Shouldn’t that apply to survivors? You don’t need to escape to feel accomplished
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I agree that tunneling is not as trash as camping, but terrible still. Because you either have to be a god looper, or you just tunneled out of the game immediately.
Let me explain (just came back 5 minutes ago with fresh examples):
first match: very toxic PH tunneled out of the game first, got one score point of 15 and lots of hookslaps. Had OTR on me, although teammates tried to bodyblock, nothing helped.
second match: not very skilled nemesis. Found me first, I ran him for almost 5 gens and then died. Was it fun for me? Well, kinda, at least I ran. Was it fun for my teammates? Unlikely. They did gens and escaped. And I got scraps of BPs. Very "fun".
But you said absolutely right thing "why should the killer ignore the injured one that came off the hook??" He doesn't if it's pay off. So it's devs responsibility to make tunneling unviable, also as camping. So tunneling would be as beneficial as standing in the corner.
Again, it maybe fun for some god-loopers, but for average people - not so much.
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It's objectively more skillful to 2 hook everyone than to tunnel someone out at 5 gens.
It's incredibly unfun for the player in question and it really isn't needed at most levels of play. People just use it as a crutch a lot of the time.
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I don't know how many time this needs to be said, but the complaints about "tunneling and camping are boring" are directed at BHVR more than other players.
Sure, people will plead with others to change their habits and ask them to be more considerate about those they are gaming with, but primarly... people want BHVR to know that this type of behavior is lame af and the fact that it still exists with any amount of prevalence reflects horribly on the devs
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You're not wrong, but it is objectively bad game design that tunneling is encouraged over spreading hooks.
Personally I prefer to spread hooks because it's more fun for me, though I agree that against better survivors, you're handing yourself an L if you even try.
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That’s hypocritical though. 2 hooking survivors is the higher chance to lose, and how is it a crutch if it doesn’t work 100% of the time? And it’s hypocritical because it’s a crutch if a killer tunnels but it’s not a crutch if survivors abuse god loops and body blocking.
not saying that tunneling is a FUN thing but it’s a VALID thing. It’s the best way to win and a smart killer would choose the best way to kill effectively
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Yes, if you want to go 100%, ensure nobody has fun and boost your win-rate in an unbalanced party game, tunnel someone out at 5 gens. There are times against certain players where you will need to camp and tunnel. Survivors do not have much of an ability to counter hardcore tunneling right out of the gate anymore. DS is nerfed, DH got nerfed, their ability to loop was nerfed, holding W was nerfed and nobody runs BT anymore. In 95% of matches, you don't need to tunnel. You do it because it's easy.
Likewise, whataboutism. Nobody brought up Survivors, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.
2 hooking Survivors is the higher chance to lose. Ergo, it is more skillful if you still win.
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If we are gonna pull this card. I never once mentioned skillful in my post, so that’s irrelevant. 2 hooking survivors is the WORST TATIC. If you agree then you agree
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A crutch isn't required to be infallible. It's just a low-effort, high reward method. It's reflected in how it's treated on the forums: If you can't win normally, you tunnel/camp.
That's also why body blocking isn't a crutch. It's not low effort, high reward. It's kinda tricky, very risky, and hard to get value out of in most cases.
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I mean, it is objectively more skillful because if you can pull it off, you're succeeding with a handicap. Tunneling is the path of least resistance.
Also, anyone claiming survivors don't have crutches is as dishonest as claiming killers don't have them - though that's a bit of a digression when nobody invoked that. Though bodyblocking is hardly a crutch; outside of the conga line to the exit gates, it's very risky play. Badham/Game/Corn/Garden map offerings, now there's a crutch.
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Everybody knows that already. What we complain about is how BHVR doesn't make spreading hooks a more valid strategy.
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They made the game to frustrate one side... they even said it a year or so ago
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If you want a easy win camp/tunnel and boost you're ego😴
If you want a challenge play the 12 hook game knowing if you get a 3K/4K it actually took skill to get done🤩
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It's the best strategy for the easiest victories, but for a challenge it's way more gratifying.
Tunnelling is valid, I agree. People fling the word around like it's an insult, but there's nothing inheritantly wrong with it. Plus, if survivors unhook safely, it negates it pretty well. But unhook in front of a killer, then it really shouldn't be a surprise if it happens.
I don't play that way because the challenge is way more rewarding than the simplest route, but neither am I saying I've never done that, nor that it's invalid as a decent tactic.
Post edited by Marc_go_solo on1 -
Nah, you can 12 hook half decent survivors. The only ones that are an issue are the ones that finally understand the game.
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I try and spread the love but there is almost always one survivor that insists on showing up on my screen repeatedly. That or two of the survivors are being extra sneaky and the other two survivors get all the hooks. If one or two survivors end up dead early because of mistakes made there is no room for complaining.
If you go into the match as killer planning to hook the first person you see, then ignore/run past all the other survivors until that person is dead that is just incredibly lame.
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People like you I just can't figure out. It's a game, it should be played to have fun. There is literally nothing tangible waiting for you at the end of a match if you escape or get 4 kills. No money, no trophy, no applause, nothing.
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People just like to ######### at killers for playing smartly and going for strategies that help them win. Until survivors go with the same standard of playing less optimally to make sure your opponent has fun, there's no reason killers need to.
If it doesn't matter if survivors escape or killers kill, then there's no reason why you should care if you get tunneled/camped out. At the end of the day it means nothing.
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The first sentence in your second statement is a strawman. I didn't say that. Point still stands. In your case it sounds like if the shoe fits...
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then one could argue that you might as well play only the worst killers without addons or perks just to give yourself a challenge... that's just not how it works. Survivors will go merciless on weaker killers, no going easy even if you obviously run no addons at all - the game is just not designed to have inefficent strategies used, thats usually how a meta works...
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You can't say that escaping or killing means nothing and then complain about killers using tactics to win. If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. You die and then move on to the next game.
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well fun is very subjective. im not having fun when i feel helpless and like my active input has no influence over the outcome of a match, hence i do not enjoy "losing". some people want to win to have fun and winning may include tunneling. everyone who says "why do you want to win, its about fun" just doesnt understand why some people play video games in the first place, winning IS our fun, at least to some extent - if it doesnt matter what you do and how you do, then why even play the game at all?
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Some people play to win. They bring the best perks and employ the most effective tactics available. They get fulfilment from this. Others don't care so much about winning. They like to use off meta perks and goof around. Both are valid.
If a strategy, tactic, or build are unhealthy for the game it is on the developers to fix it.
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Most of the time the guy who is unhooked has otr or ds so your going agains't 2 health states vs 2 health states. Usually it's easier to get hit on unhooker and he can be easier to catch never know. Tunneling streng is when teammates come off the gens to help the tunneled one and if he is easy to catch so you can take one quickly out to secure win without gens getting done. But I like winning so called right/fair way it cost me sometimes games but I don't feel being mean always. But actually next game I will play very dirty and tunnel because I lost last match while played fairly and survivors teabagged at exit gate adrealine stole my 2K probably even 3K. I hooked everyone once and some even few times before taking first kill.
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Tunneling is unhealthy for the game, it's as simple as that. Nobody enjoys being camped or tunneled.
You can play killer normally and still be able to have a fair chance at winning. Now that killers have gotten multiple baseline buffs. Tunneling isn't always the best choice, but it often can be. And that's a problem. If anything, camping and tunneling at the moment are overpowered strategies, that need to be nerfed. Killers can play normally and still win, but tunneling and camping are simply the easy way out.
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They kind of did make it more valid. Killers just got a bunch of baseline buffs recently, playing normally still gives you a fair chance at winning.
The problem most people are having is that tunneling and camping are kept at a way too viable level at the moment. They need to be nerfed, before killers could get any more buffs.
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Who is arguing Tunneling's vailidity?
Just because something is "valid" "within the rules" "legit" does not mean it is balanced. Period.
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Survivors want killers to go for multiple hooks, but the game is designed for kills to be the focus. When survivors do well, there is no time for fresh hooking everyone.
Ultimately I find hooks to always be a waste of time, something which survivors dictate to begin with. You can squander a good 20-30% worth of a gen just carrying to a hook. I'll settle for bad altruism kills before returning to using the hooks.
2 -
Give some gameplay incentive to promote going for hooks instead of just kills and give the killer some benefit for NOT tunneling the first poor sod out of the game but also not hurting themselves by doing so.
Give the killer a mini basekit BBQ and show them the farthest away survivor for 3s and give them a +15% speed boost for 10s to get over there, as long as they stay out of chase and 15m away from that survivor.
Have The Entity eat 5% of every gens progress and/or block all gens for 10s once you "hook everyone for the first time", "2 hook everyone" etc. but maybe also give the survivors a permanent +3% gen repair speed every time the killer hooks a survivor within 45s of them being unhooked.
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But you can't even do that a lot of the time. Are you seeing these gens?
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Is it really skillful though if you're just refusing to use a more effective/consistent strategy that will help you? It's strange when applied to any other context.
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Handicapping yourself and winning anyway is objectively more skillful, yes.
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And sometimes I can do it at 5 gens left. What's your point?
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As soon as survivors are encouraged to spread progress equally across 7 gens then they can expect killers to spread 12 hooks.
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Who said you had to tunnel someone out at 5 gens? They're probably referring to focusing hooks on 1-2 people instead of spreading them out so you can get a player out long before you're at the last 1-2 gens. There is only so much "skill" can impact a game when you're playing a m1 killer when survivors just drop 20 pallets and you lose because you played nice. Playing smart is implementing tunneling and such into your gameplay.
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I don't think is really a skill thing for killers I actually think it more about how skilled or smart game sense wise the survivors are. More often then not I find that it's survivors just not been as good as me or they are doing dumb stuff like unhooking right in front of me as huntress before I'm even 10 feet away. There is still skill on my side but I feel like more often it was just bad survivor play in general that allowed me to 2 hook everyone. Just my opinion though
1 -
I've seen this argument before. Why target a healthy survivor instead of a survivor who's already injured, and recently unhooked?
Because pressure. If you're tunneling and the rest of the survivors are staying on gens, all your pressure is on one survivor. You're not hindering the rest of the team. They're on gens, and if the unhooked survivor can run you for long enough, you'll lose 3 gens.
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Nobody is saying its not a good strat.
Only that survivors fInd it boring
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it's the shortest way to being mocked and disrespected by survivors (who will be mean toward you in every case). i wish you did some of my matches and you'll see why people tunnel... i don't know nothing about your skill and your mmr, but i can speak for my personal experience since i didn't had a NORMAL match in ages... every single match done aganist tryharders/genrushers/toxic pricks who want to make your experience miserable is a common experience for me, so i don't see any reason about playing "nice"
2 -
The killer has the freedom to chose the target. 2 hooking everyone is certainly not a priority, nor the killer should go out of it's way to find somebody else just to play by the rules survivors want him to play. I personally like spreading out pressure on all of them, and I hook whoever I catch faster. I don't care if that person will die or not. I don't camp around the hook, it's a stupid strategy, and spread out pressure is the best strategy in my opinion. However if I see the person who I hooked 2 times before, I hear his cry of pain somewhere close by, I will not hesitate to give chase and kill that survivor.
Borrowed time is great, I'm well aware of it, and I don't chase the unhooked survivor, I simply go after the person who unhooked, but most of the time, by the time somebody is unhooked, I already am chasing somebody else somewhere else so I don't bother myself going back there. but after I am done there I try to guess which way people went after they onhooked the person and go check the place out. My job is to chase efficiently. Not selectively.
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Dude it sounds like you are stuck in an mmr where survivors are above your skill level and your only option is to hard tunnel early for a chance at winning.
And it sounds like you dont enjoy playing like that, so throw a couple games, get easier survivors and practice vs those.
Sometimes you get dealt a bad hand and have to tunnel some one out of the game but if its every single game, you are probably just using tunneling as a crutch.
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As i play both sides i try to even out hooks until 3 gens are done (or at least go for the unhooker). At this point i think it is not an unreasonable tactic to switch the strategy and the chances for a 2 escape are quite high and that's what i try to go for in the long run.
But there are situations where I will go for the unhooked person. First if she tries to bodyblock with the 5 sec BT and i put her into deep wound. Then there is no reason to switch targets to a healthy survivor. Second if i am close to the hook and i simply don't see the unhooker but run into the unhooked person. What should i do, ignore her? I will usually slug her then and try to find someone else. Third, toxic t-bagging clicky-clicky tryhards when i did not give them any reason to act like that.
So yeah, tunneling is situational. But i don't understand how people can enjoy a "win" when they go for the easy way and start to tunnel at 0 gens done. Just feels cheap.
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Might not always 2-hook everyone before a guy ends up killed, because I don't always remember which one I hooked twice and which one only once (especially if the same character). Or sometimes there is a god looper among the survivor so I leave them for last so they don't waste my time.
But as I mostly play survivor, when I go killer I tend to be more mindful that the game feels rewarding to them as well. Especially if there are cakes, flans or party streamers involved, you bet I'm eating pallets like never before to give them those juicy stun points.
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The game is set up so that survivor skill level controls the game. If the survivors are good at looping (they know the tiles, map layout and strategies from a lot of probably private practice sessions, the game still has no training mode) and are SWF using voice communication and properly conveying information on the killer's movements and delegating responsibilities to one another, then only a top tier killer played by a top tier player is going to have any chance of winning if they don't camp or tunnel. The surviors simply save so much time and guarantee so much wasted time for the killer regardless of how well he plays that it's simply mathematically impossible for him to win if he does not quickly eliminate a player or camp and get free chases and hits on the rescuer so that he can guarantee there will be always be pressure applied. Some killers will only start camping or tunneling once they realise this is needed, some will camp and tunnel from the start even if they're obviously up against weaker solo queue players that don't "need" to be camped or tunneled. But at the end of the day, the game is fundamentally built around it and many killer kits, such as Hag and Pyramid Head are built around these behaviours.
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I... Do already? I've thrown struggling killers a hook state or even two or even waited with them through EGC on otherwise overwhelming rounds, I've even body blocked a few people at gates for tea bagging excessively.
While the majority plays the game like it's some sort of toxicity arms race "THEY were playing dirty, so now I have to play even dirtier!" I prefer to keep things chill. Even when playing killer, I still get the 10-12 spread out hooks for 3-4Ks more often than not, I still offer an unfortunate survivor who keeps stumbling into me an extra chance via slug and move on, I still go full stop if I see a glyph challenge. I still plop them right on top of hatch if I down them nearby. I still nod and walk into the pallets when someone's legit waving me over to them, And I still ALWAYS go for a hatch race at 3K, none of this selfish slugging for the 4K nonsense.
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Survivors be like....
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-I’m more addressing tunneling rather than camping. Camping itself is a boring play style for BOTH parties. on the other hand, tunneling is ABSOLUTELY valid, and I don’t see why it shouldn’t be.
If you tunnel the gens then you should expect the killer to tunnel you out of the game. DBD is at a point where everyone knows the score and it is up to the devs to change things so that gens don't get finished too fast and tunneling becomes unnecessary.
I watched Otz play one game today and he had two gens pop tinkerer before he even scored a single hit. He went back to those gens and downed a survivor and camped them to death guarding over the basement. The team could have easily traded but they refused. At the end game screen they called him a noob camper. There is literally nothing he could have done different to win. The survivors set the tone of the game and Otz responded very appropriately to how they played against him.
-"Sadly the game is designed so that the best tactic for both sides makes the game incredibly unfun for the other. Gen rush as survivors, tunnel and proxy camp as killer. That's the game."
It would be pretty easy to make a few changes and have that not be the case anymore. If the killers could turn generators off again they would always focus on the gens. I'm not saying that is the change we need in the game right now but just showing that one small change could revolutionize the game.
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