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BHVR, are you going to make an in-game solution for survivors holding the game hostage by hiding?
On several occasions, you have stated that hiding and refusing to attempt to repair generators while the hatch has not spawned (thus making it impossible to start Endgame Collapse) is against the rules because it is refusal to participate in normal gameplay and holding the game hostage. You have stated it needs a video report and can be potentially bannable on a case-by-case basis. That is all fine and dandy.
However, for the one stuck in that game, there is no good solution that currently exists in the game's base line. If a person does not happen to play a killer or run perks/add-ons that would have helped in this situation (eg, Doctor, Whispers, Iron Maiden, etc), they are just screwed. Survivors who intentionally hide in this manner also intentionally avoid AFK crows from spawning by walking/crouching around/swapping lockers/etc to give no possible information if the killer isn't lucky enough to be close by at the time to hear breathing or locker door sounds or whatnot.
Are there any plans to make some sort of in-game feature to deal with this? I am curious to hear on that, and if not, I would like to ask you to consider it, as it can end up in absurdly drawn out games of 10-20+ minutes of nothing being done and not being able to find anyone, especially on larger maps. It pretty much only gives an option of DCing, AFKing, or playing until one side finally gives up.
Comments
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The solution is really simple. If a survivor does nothing to try to advance the game for some period of time they start getting crows. Maybe 1 at 90s, 2 at 105s & 3 at 120s. Any time they are spotted by the killer this timer is reset. If they cleanse a totem it resets the timer and can remove 1 crow. If they work on a generator their timer resets after working on it for 15s and they lose crows at a rate of 1 per 15 seconds worked or chased.
Crows should not be just for not moving.
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It would be nice if the game had a timer. Like 30 minutes is the absolute longest a game can go, no reason to let games go on longer than that.
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Yeah, I'd love this.
Not all of us record all of our games, and some of the most miserable experiences I've had in DbD are groups that do this from the start, or three people do it after an early DC.
Agreed.
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After 10 minutes of survivors doing nothing I think maybe the entity should make the survivors scream and reveal their locations for 3 seconds.
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10 minutes might as well be 10 years.
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I agree, it doesn't happen all that often fortunately but on the rare occasion you have two survivors both crouching around not doing gens and also trying their hardest not to be found it can be really tedious and long if you are playing a killer that doesn't have something to help with the tracking. I'd be ok with either crows starting to appear or some other sort of other internal timing device that triggers when no new scoring events have occurred in the last 5 minutes or so. (That should be plenty of time for at least one player to score points somewhere!) If not crows then I'd also be good with, say, just a sudden death timer that if the game stalls out too long it simply ends in a draw for the remaining players.
On a side note this also could maybe be useful to combat the hackers who intentionally stall the game out somehow after endgame collapse that have plagued some of the streamers recently.
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I’m not joking when i say i’ve been in 3 matches that lasted over 30 minutes, one even took around 60 MINUTES. Because some survivors (mainly claudettes) were allergic to gens. I went afk and on DBD mobile and was able to finish a 10 minute billy match and only PART of a gen since like a minute after a gen was done. Waited another 10 minutes and a gen got done. So 2 gens left. I finally managed to find a survivor after another 10-15 minutes and got them in mere seconds.
all they need to do is just make it so crows will appear if nobody touches a gen within a certain amount of time.
4/3/2 Survivors: 8/8/5 minutes after no gen, chase or rescue.
1 Survivor: 2 minutes after the 3rd survivor death.
also, have the entity just kill everyone at 20-30 minutes of the match and end the match (could also stop hackers).
this could also encourage survivors to do gens cuz we all know solo queue teammates love that.
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If killer could open the door at any point during the game, killer could start EGC.
These situations with 2 remaining survivors are, in my experience, almost always two separate survivors knowing there is no way to do the remaining gens and hoping the other gets caught first, so that they may have hatch. It's not with the intention of trolling or griefing.
When this happens in my games, I generally end up as the one who does the grown-up thing and goes to find killer so that they can kill me and end the game. It's ######### and tanks mmy mmr, but otherwise the game could last any amount of time. Despite that, I do respect the right of people not to want to get caught in a desperate situation.
If killer could start EGC, it would spare everyone some time.
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If killer could open the door at any point during the game, killer could start EGC.
That'd simply open a gateway for killers to quickly tank their MMR and deny survivors from getting a lot a of bloodpoints.
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The solution is simple and obvious, but clearly it is not a priority for BHVR
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This raises an interesting possibility.
If there are only 2 survivors left alive the killer should be able to open the gate to make the game end sooner.
In this case the killer can't tank their MMR.
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Just do tracking perks
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Wow, it’s maybe almost like people shouldn’t have to use specific perks to have to not be stuck in a game held hostage by people breaking rules.
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I think this is the best suggestion I've read so far. Although 10 minutes without doing anything is a bit too much maybe?
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It does have a timer.....2 hours...the game server shuts down at 2 hrs
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oh damn so if survivors are holding hostage all i have to wait is 2 hours to avoid a 5 min dc penalty
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Playing for the win shouldn't be reportable or punishable. They should rework whole 2v1 setup. Also it will fix slugging for 4k exploit
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I found that out after a hacker decided to lock down a match I was in.....
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thats not an exploit. its boring but an exploit is something along the lines of abusing bugs. you can stop reporting killers who slug for 4ks, bc nothings going to happen to them lol
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Frankly there should be a hard cap to match time.
At 20 minutes, end game collapse starts regardless of state of the game. EGC will be slowed if there are still generators remaining.
This means after 24 minutes, all survivors will be killed by the EGC.
On a 1 minute timer after that point, instantly terminate the match if it does not end naturally.
It's a hard solution to all holding the game hostage via natural means, bugs, and hacks.
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Not doing Gens is not playing for the win though that is literally holding the game hostage. If a survivor doesn't pregress the game through completing Gens.
Also as much as it sucks, slugging is not a exploit it's just another way for the Killer to progress their objective by killing the Survivors albeit a more hated method.
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You're not "playing for the win" at that point, you're refusing to accept the loss and begging for a draw.
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Being hidden for that long is not easy because of the crows, there is no need for a "nerf" to it. The rules are also not objective, either way never hide, in this case give yourself to the killer, otherwise you will get banned from dbd like a cheater if they record and complain about it.
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Had a 4 man stealth squad on rpd, game took like 40 minutes
Yes i bled them all out
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According to this logic waiting out corrupt intervention is against the rules?
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You do not understand logic at all if that is where you wanted to take your gotcha comment. Corrupt actually ends (even faster, now that it disappears the second a single survivor gets downed) but a group of locker jockeys can prevent the game from progressing at all indefinitely. They're not even remotely comparable.
What OP is discussing isn't even about hiding from the killer, its doing so in a way that prevents the game from being able to conclude. Being stealthy during a match is not the same as refusing to accept defeat and cowering in corners for 10+ minutes hoping your teammate is more willing to die and move on than you are.
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I mean there are people in this thread including OP saying that you should get crows if no one works on a gen for 90 seconds. That is a pretty normal occurrence in games where the killer uses corrupt.
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The crows after 90 seconds thing was one suggestion to the actual problem, which is what the topic is about. Also if nobody touches a single gen for the entire duration of corrupt, you might as well just hop on those hooks yourselves. Thats also assuming nobody gets downed in that amount of time either, which would also be pretty bad on the killer's part as well.
Also OP didnt even say anything about the crows, so at least dont put words into their mouth.
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Just because one is left, doesnt mean he lost. Otherwise make the game 3vs1.
1 Survivor should still have the chance to win and shouldnt be impossible.
Also in most cases, survivors do something. Maybe you dont see it.
Doing Totems, healing others or hiding while in terror radius (which litterly gives points) isnt doing nothing. And the reason for proof is simple, not every killer playing sees everything.
Also for @topic, i dont think killers should automatic win when the timers run out. Killers slugg too to find the last survivor instead of just hooking him to "end" the game. Also some killers can do things to keep the game hostage.
It should result in a draw.
Also having endgame collaps and still needing to do gens? ######### no. Endgame collaps always powers gates. Simple as that.
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The correct way to deal with Corrupt is literally to have everyone hide until the killer finds someone, according to this thread and you apparently, you think that people shouldn't be able to hide. Hiding is part of this game and any measures to deal with something I have never seen in 1000 hours would kill it for everyone else. Just like camping and tunneling are killer "tactics" so is hiding as survivor to waste the killers time.
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The 4 is a team vs the 1. the 4 has a mutual goal, and yes, they have lost that goal at that point if nobody is trying to complete what remains of it. Stop the 1v1 mentality, you're playing the wrong game. If my 3 teammates are just running in circles around a gen and not doing anything and they all die, I have lost, even if I did not contribute to why I lost. Thats the rough truth about this game that people's egos always refuse to accept. You wouldn't say a quarterback "won" a game if their team got pummeled in a landslide, even if they performed spectacularly. They still lost because their team lost. If you want 1 survivor to always have the potential to 1v1 the killer, you do not understand asymmetrical design as a basic concept.
Also good on them if they're doing more than just sitting in a locker browsing twitter. If they're not doing anything to progress the game in one direction or the other for a considerable duration, that is still holding the game hostage. The game cannot progress until gens get done, last one gets the hatch, or people die.
also you do know that the "draw" you described is what happens when you get the hatch, right? you don't win, you draw. You get the escape bonus for escaping but your MMR does not go up or down. When you're hiding waiting for that slug to slowly bleed out and wasting everyone's time? its not even for a win, like i said, you're just refusing to admit defeat.
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According to the developers (you can go back and watch the steam) this is a 1v1 1v1 1v1 1v1 game. If the killer is slugging in a situation with 2 of us left, the worst thing I could do to survive myself, would be to continue doing a gen or immediately try and pick up the survivor. In both cases the killer would find me and kill us both. However, if I hide and see what the killer is doing, that gives me a chance to capitalize on a mistake to where I myself get to escape or I manage to save the person on the ground. Either way, the worst possible options as soon as the killer downs the other person, is to continue doing a gen or trying to pick him up.
The people saying this is a team oriented game, are killers trying to get you to make a mistake so they can get free hooks. While early game it is in your best interest to keep teammates alive so gens get done faster. There are many times where being altruistic will only lead to your own demise.
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It's not an exploit. It's entirely within the rules of the game
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Hiding for hatch is literally intentionally refusing to participate in normal gameplay of trying to progress the game. Realistically, without specific powers, add-ons, or perks, the killer will never find someone hiding on purpose like this. The killer is (probably) trying to find where the remaining survivors are, so they can end the game, or checking the gens, to see if anyone’s come by to try and find people near them. They are engaging in normal gameplay. Hiding and doing nothing except waiting for the other to die is not normal gameplay.
Attempting to repair and being chased off is fine. Attempting to do literally nothing is not. Will it get you killed? Sure, maybe. But the reason you’re even in that situation in that first place is the killer did better than the survivors and have whittled the numbers down already. It is literally the point that it is largely in their favor. Either way, they are getting at least a 3K if not a 4K in that situation. Sort of like how it’s extremely in the survivors’ favors if Exit Gates were opened and the killer has 3 total hooks the entire game with no one on death hook is at least a 3 out if not a 4 out.
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The devs also said this exact situation is in fact holding the game hostage, if neither survivor is willing to attempt to continue working on gens. Don't cherry pick statements from the devs to try to justify something that is unironically against ToS. It doesn't take much understanding to know why survivors do it, just like it doesn't take much understanding to know why a killer would bodyblock someone in a corner to secure a single kill. That doesn't make either scenario suddenly not against the rules.
The reason its a team oriented game is because the Four are supposed to work together to overcome the One. It is literally in the game's design and balancing, otherwise what would be the point of actions like unhooking? It also ties in with the 1v1v1v1v1 comment, in that the other survivors provide mutual benefit to your own objective the longer they survive, which makes you a team.
You all have the same objective, both on a micro and macro level (power all the gens and escape.) You all also have the ability to assist each other in said objective, and are encouraged to do so for both selfish or selfless reasons. Also what the hell is that projection at the end? I almost exclusively play survivor, there isn't some cabal of sneaky killer mains encouraging survivors to sabotage their own games. Ironically Its survivors who suffer from selfish plays the most, since they often get sandbagged by teammates like you.
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Could even be 20 minutes and it'd be long enough. Have it just end in a draw if time runs out before everyone is killed or escapes, there's no winner/loser at that point. If you're stacking slow downs to make the game last forever but you're not actually killing anyone you don't win by default. If you're just hiding for 20 minutes not even trying to escape you also don't win by default.
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It blows my mind that "Play the game" is a hot take for some people.
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I would love to sit down with a developer and ask them what a survivor should do in a situation where the killer is slugging for a 4k and the killer is camping the body while proxying gens. I have a feeling their answer would not be to your liking.
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How are they camping the slug and proxying gens at the same time? Pick up the slug when they’re not nearby, or work on a gen???
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Shhh, every hypothetical needs to be as loaded as possible, regardless of actual possibilities.
That said, yes, you are supposed to juggle the slug and the gen. Or just run the killer on purpose until you max boldness out idc. Hell, some killers actually appreciate that and will give you the hatch if they see you're the one survivor actually trying. They'll certainly be more likely to than if you made them search lockers for 20 minutes.
The devs would probably also say "take the L and move on" if I had to guess.
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I don't know what is so hard to understand about this. He is talking about people doing nothing. Not people healing or doing totems. If you heal or do a totem you wouldn't get the crows or w/e said in-game solution is...
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you already have an ingame solution: Aura Perks.
i know its hard to swap out one of your prob 4 gen slowdown perks but atleast you can stop crying about hiding :)
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They don't want to progress the game? Show their auras permanently. That's their punishment.
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This is an idea I forgot I had. Killers should be able to open the doors even before 5 gens are done. I actually had people disagreeing with me, saying that "Killers shouldn't be able to end the game early", probably afraid of Bloodwarden plays or something.
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VHS handles stalemates very well since you can capture a rift on both sides and get extended aura reading, but the gameplay is much different since survivors wouldn't really be able to act upon this. Maybe give killers 10 seconds of aura reading if no significant gen/gate progress has been done for 60 seconds.
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This isn't playing to win.
This is playing to drag things out forever to BM.
You might as well say 'walling the survivors into the poop room on Gideon and forcing them to DC is playing to win'.
No, you're trying to do the 'gotcha via silly hypothetical' thing.
Just make it so this won't happen within the first 2 minutes of a game. Really, really not hard.
Sigh.
Okay, firstly - don't whatabout. Plus, I don't think killers can take the match hostage anymore.
I've had multiple groups literally go from locker to locker, occasionally touching a bone to not get crows. They aren't playing to win, they are sulking because someone DC'd, or they 3genned themselves.
Why did you leave the context of this quote out completely?
They are specifically talking about this in terms of the matchmaker.
Survivor is a team role.
How are they keeping 3 people slugged whilst also patrolling gens?
I think you're talking about a hacker here, because I don't think any killer can actually do this. Just have people crawl off in different directions.
Also - your posts in this thread are probably the best example of the Just In Case fallacy I've seen in a year.
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Yes aura perks that are countered by being in a locker and normally require a hook/unhook/fast vault/healing/gen done. There are only two perks that would even decent which are whispers/spies and they're pretty mediocre why be forced to dedicate 1/4 of your perk slots because people don't want to play the game.
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Why they do not set a time limit (lets say 30min) that then starts EGC I have no idea. I see no good reason why we do not have one at this point in time, and its a bit frustrating as it seems like such a simple feature to implement.
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Ah yes, thank you for your incredibly genius insight no one could have possibly thought of: Equating running perks that this game makes as an option, which is completely within rules VS Being forced to run certain perks to deal with the chance that survivors you play against might decide to actively break game rules to hold the match hostage.
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I agree that a perk shouldn't be used to fix a game defect, but Whispers is legit one of the most valuable killer perks in the game anyway. Might as well run it, and then this problem goes away for you.
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