http://dbd.game/killswitch
Grabbing during unhook
Grabbing healthy survivor should not be a thing. It just enforce killers to camp even more. I am being camped 1 out of 3 games if I am lucky and this mechanics does not help at all.
Camping Bubba is nothing new but when killers like clown camps me on 4 gens and than they get another 2 down just by grabbing healthy survivor and immidiatly dropping them just does not even slighty feels fair to me.
Comments
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I agree with this.
Unhook grabs are silly, and the little 'dance' you have to do is really just rolling the latency dice and hoping you don't roll a 1.
I don't see why it can't just be removed.
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fake the unhook by tapping and there u go
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That works only if killer has less than 20h or 80IQ
In best case its trade anyway which is completly fine to me.
Few times I even unhooked survivor and was grabbed at same time.
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"Just bait it out"
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ive seen killers with thousand of hours mess it up by tapping if you do it believeable, tapping a bit shorter and longer unless they want to stand by hook for a long time, or bait a hit in some way. at worst you might need 2 people then to unhook the person. what you're saying i dont believe is true.
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that's true that you need sometimes more people in these situations. But as solo Q player and longer gens times you sometimes do not a have a choice in that. It felt like If they let me die on hook, they will not have enough man power for rest of the gens, but if they all commit to unhook, it will be just slaughter house with STBFL. Basically just loose or loose situation and only because killer decided to stand infront of my hook and was good or lucky with those grabs.
Great that we are getting new anti camp perk, but honestly I spend enough money into this game and it turned into more and more trash past few months and I am not going to pay another.
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When I play killer and someone tries to farm someone off the hook and they try this tactic, I'm very good at timing a grab from it. It's very easy to do.
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It is a skilless tactic that rewards the killer for doing nothing. Many killers have realized it at this point.
Devs don’t actually play their own game or this "tactic" would have been changed long ago.
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It's very unhealthy for the game. Camping is an issue that both sides want addressed, and this exacerbates the problem. Grabs shouldn't happen on a healthy survivor. Secure a trade, no point getting a free win because you refused to leave the hook.
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Its dumb as hell, remove it
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It exists to disincentivize survivors from dive bombing the hook and unhooking in front of the killer’s face without any real threat (taking a hit and leaving), which would be utterly moronic.
I’d be fine with removing it, but ONLY in return for making the unhook animation uncancellable, so there is no way to avoid being downed if you do something stupid like trying to unhook in the killer’s face. Then it allows for trading, not risk-free hook dive-bombing.
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Youre right, with how buggy grabbing is, we should definitely remove that. IdV's terror shocks are a good alternative. That'd mean making survivors exposed during all "channeled" actions.
Alternatively: Vaulting with its "hurt only"-condition for grabs is the outlier, it should be normalised to always allow grabs. Additionally, Healing or "helping up"-healing dont have a grab at all, which also needs to be normalised.
Don't do crap in front of the Killer.
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I've been grapped while i tapped so yeah does not help at all and best case scenario is still trade.
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This happens so rarely that it does not make it any healthier.
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Uh...what? No, it doesn't? Only SWF's dive bomb hooks if it isn't end game. Their dive bombing ignores healthy grabs anyways. Healthy grabs on survivors only really affects solo queue survivors, and since the majority of games have killers camping their first hook, this has been a needed change for a long time.
Whether the unhook animation is cancellable or not is not important at all. Make it uncancellable, sure.
Tell me you don't play solo survivor without..you know the rest.
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Consider this post a bump, I'm just echoing what others have said in here and what I have said multiple times in the past as well: Hook grabs are a completely ridiculous mechanic and it's pretty mindboggling they are still in the game after all these years. They do nothing but incentivize hardcamping, and reward it ridiculously much. They are vulnerable to latency and therefore a random luck mechanic. They lead to awkward and silly "interactions" of dancing around the hook with survivors scared to commit to an unhook and killers refusing to hit them. And a third survivor can't even unhook until the grab animation has fully played out, meaning the killer not only gets the first free down but can still deny the unhook even if another survivor is there, or at the very least still down that other survivor as well.
The direction for a long time already should have been to nerf camping (and tunnelling off hook) and instead buff killers in other respects that encourage and yield more engaging gameplay, such as chases. They however don't even touch the most ridiculous camping "tactics", like these grabs or Bubba facecamping. Perhaps hook grabs are a mechanic the devs like because they make the hook a more "dangerous" place, they might consider it a horror-type power dynamic thing that adds to that quality of the gameplay experience... but it just objectively makes for terrible gameplay and only exacerbates core issues the game already has (some of the most uninteractive strats being the most effective, latency having a big effect on the game). Besides, hooks are still plenty dangerous without it, the killer can secure at the very least a 1-for-1 trade in the majority of these instances, so the rescuer is already throwing their life at them, and this is all the more true now that the hit cooldown has been reduced and Dead Hard nerfed such that it can't be actuated without moving. Save The Best For Last being in play can mean the killer melts through both you, any other survivor there to support, and the unhooked survivor, within seconds. Various killer abilities are also incredibly lethal around hooks. Hook grabs are just stacking crap on top of crap.
I for one think camping and tunnelling have their place in the game, so while it is possible to remove them as viable or at all available strats entirely, I don't think they should be. But they should absolutely be nerfed such that they aren't as effective and oppressive anymore, instead other aspects of killer gameplay should be getting buffed that encourage more healthy and engaging interaction, which most of all is chaseplay, play around pressuring and defending generators and juggling different survivors across the entire map. Camping and tunnelling are also particularly devastating for non-coordinated groups (so solos and duos most of all), which is another reason why they should be rebalanced, they exacerbate the core balancing issue of the gap between solo and SWF as well.
At least we are getting a band-aid for camping in the form of Reassurance soon, which will help make hook grabs less problematic of a mechanic as well, since it will make hardcamping less effective in general. But yeah, it's just that, a band-aid, these things should not be worked around with perks, but actually balanced.
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Unhooking should have counterplay. If you have a problem with that, by all means, run reassurance.
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They don't incentivize hard camping, if the rest of the team just does gens, killer is not gonna have a good game.
If anything, its there so survivors don't make reckless saves like that. It's almost always a lose situation when the killer plays it right. Doesn't matter if thats a tunnel or trade. This would just help those trying to escape, like old ds.
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Yeah, right, "just do gens lmao". I won't go and point out all the ways in which camping absolutely is the most effective killing strategy in the game most of the time, I will just point to tournament play in which camping is a bread and butter play as well to easily demonstrate this fact. They are facing the most coordinated and experienced teams in the world on voice comms, composed of some of the best players, and they still employ camping, to great effect. "Just do gens" is a flawed sentiment pushed mostly by camping killers that want to keep their easy wins, because against most random groups of survivors it really is incredibly easy to win with camping.
And hook grabs absolutely play into how strong camping is, also blatant to see why.
Reckless saves are still reckless without hook grabs in the game, because at best you give the killer a free down, at worst they can down you before you are able to unhook. And they can also still simply tunnel off hook, they're right there. It would still absolutely be dicey and risky to go for saves in the killer's face.
As I've said, nerfs to camping (and tunnelling) would absolutely have to come alongside buffs to other killer gameplay aspects, because the game as it is definitely isn't balanced for the idea of consistently getting 9 hooks for your first kill against equal opponents, not for most killer characters and maps anyway.
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"Pushed by camping killers"
That's a stretch, considering I'm speaking from personal experience as survivor.
Anyways, the outcome of survivor matches against a camper is much better if you don't throw yourselves at the camper, at least not in a proper group if you really have to. Afterwards, play it safer. Don't be cocky at loops, use what resources you can since they already wasted so much time. "Just do gens" doesn't work with bad teammates was prob a better way to put it.
That is where the problem lies imo, 80% of the time without swf, those situations go to ######### due to terrible teammates or poor timing by said teammates.
Tournaments was silly to bring up, as kills/hook states= points. Ofc they want to push it to get as much possible, not to mention if they get off they are guaranteed harder kills. Looking for a straight 4k isint the immediate objective, its to kill as much as possible with little hassle.
that 3% of matches aside, camping grants minimal points, not fun in the slightest, and removing grabs will not end it.
It'll just help those reckless survivors more than anything.
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Tournaments are not silly to bring up, your way of trying to deflect the game reality they showcase is silly. Killers in tournaments absolutely play for kills more than anything else, just like most of any killer. A 4k rewards the most points, getting a 4k with the least amount of gens done rewards the most points while giving the fewest to the opponents. And yet still, camping is what top killers most of the time do. And they have great success doing so, consistently killing even at that level.
Indeed, camping is even more devastating against uncoordinated groups, who are the overwhelming majority in the game's actual public game mode. And indeed, camping is not usually fun for most players involved, regularly yields little gameplay and BP. So why exactly do you seem to not want to nerf camping such that it isn't as viable anymore and not as common an occurrence at every level of play? Removing hook grabs would go a long way to make it less effective to camp, because hook grabs are about the most impactful way to counter someone contesting a camp.
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I'd be fine if hook grabs went away, but what about a middle ground solution? If you get a grab on an unhooker, you pull the survivor off the hook and they go free, but then put the unhooker on the hook. The person on hook has extra time to run due to the animation playing out and the killer still gets a trade. I have no idea how to really make the animation for it work, but it's a pretty solid change imo. If the killer is close enough for a grab, someone is almost definitely going down and going back on the hook anyway. This makes it harder to immediately tunnel out the person that was on hook, but the killer still gets value for good timing.
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Honestly the whole grab thing is more of a gamble than a real tool. Most of the time killers get validated anyway so I have a hard time believing someone gets consistent grabs. Yesterday I tried to grab a survivor that that wouldn't even let me leave the hook before rescuing. I got the animation and was then frozen for a few seconds while they got the rescue and ran away.
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don't unhook right in front of the killer. there, I solved it for you. Otherwise any interrupt attack results in a grab (the killer has to be in position, and can't use lounge for that to work)
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You say remove healthy grabbing, I say force the survivors to stay in the action just long enough to get the grab even if they cancel it.
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