Let's discuss camping, tunneling, 2v1's, SWF and anything that seems awkward about the game
I want you to give me solutions to those problems, not complain about them.
Tell me how would to fix them while also making it reasonable for the other side.
The problem this game has, is very similar to what League of Legends had in the past. There were no clear rules, and players would join a game without a preestablished role, and there would be chaos and players would fight about the rules and what roles each had in a team, and what champion worked or not in that role. All of that until the devs finally took a stance and introduced role queue, and started balancing champions around certain roles etc.
Seems like the devs just don't want to take a stance when it comes to our problems in DBD. They made this game sort of like a sandbox, and let players figure out what is cool and what is not. They have the power to fix them but they're afraid that they might piss off players and eventually make them quit the game. But that's needed in order to evolve, it's called polishing the game.
Imagine a new player playing killer, he gets the first hook, and face camps it, then he gets mocked into oblivion in the game chat, and he's like "#########, it's not like there are any game mechanics to stop me from doing that and it's not bannable/punishable either". So he's like "is this a roleplay type game or what ? I could easily do certain things, but I shouldn't because I have to roleplay like I'm in some sort of bad horror movie ?"
So let's try to find something that works and maybe, maybeeee someone at BHVR would actually pay attention to those situations
Comments
-
They literally added an anti camping perk, and increased basekit BT/speed to help with tunneling..
0 -
If you think 10 seconds of baseline borrowed time is going to stop people from tunneling, you must not play a lot of survivor.
7 -
That's not anti tunneling at all. I'm a killer main, if you want to tunnel a guy, you still easily can, since you continue to have vision of him after you hit him, yes it will take more time since now he has a bigger movement speed boost but it doesn't fix it at all.
The problem with tunneling is that some killers will still do it even if it puts them at a disadvantage, me included. If a guy teabags me hardcore and acts all cool, I will sacrifice the whole game just to tunnel him and get him dead that's how petty I am.
This "fix" only stops the tunneling in case you think about playing in the best possible way, but most killers don't really care about doing everything perfectly and maximizing their chances to get a 4k.
4 -
I play a lot of survivor, and even more killer.
Run OTR and work on your looping skills. Being tunneled isn’t the end of the world, and is a good thing if you are the strong looper on the team. Keep the killer busy while the gens get ran through.
0 -
Ok? I’m a killer main too?
1) it quite literally is anti tunneling. It gives you much more time, and much more distance from the killer (if the killer was facing/prox camping / or came back to hook and chooses to tunnel). This distance and time is a deterrent to tunnel.
2) If the killer decides to tunnel, then he’s going to tunnel. There is literally NOTHING you can do about it except be a good survivor and work on your own skills. Learn to loop well, run OTR, run deadhard. Give yourself as many second chances as you can, combined with good looping skills and you will cost the killer the game for tunneling.
They can’t fully fix tunneling because unfortunately it becomes a legit and quite possibly the ONLY strategy that can provide a killer the amount of pressure needed to win a game (against swfs / genrush team). Tunneling early on isn’t really necessary, but later on I would argue it is sometimes.
1 -
So what you are saying is the baseline borrowed time is so useless that you have to run OTR.
1 -
did I say that? If the killer is going to tunnel, he’s going to tunnel you. Might as well equip yourself to deal with it. Use the basekit speed to make distance to a strong loop, use OTR as a second chance if needed.
1 -
Imo the solution is to add a sort of "Desperation Bonus":
As soon as one survivor dies, all other survivors get a +30% repair speed bonus.
The fundamental cause for tunneling is that the best way to win right now is to make the game a 3v1 as fast as possible and there is little incentive to hook other people before.
This change will be a massive survivor buff, game will need to be rebalanced after that, but in the end, I think it will make "playing nice" more viable as well as many positive effects, for example games will no longer become unwinnable just because a teammate DC'd or suicided on hook within the first 5 minutes.
3 -
But if the baseline borrowed time solved tunneling wouldn't OTR be redundant?
0 -
It’s not supposed to be an end all to tunneling. It says in the patch notes the changes are to allow survivors to make it to a safe loop if the killer chooses to chase again. OTR is a second chance in case the killer decides to tunnel, which could very well happen.
1 -
A good tunneler will not target someone who can loop, he will usually target the weak element. That's even one of Otz's "Essential killer knowledge" advices and that guide is not even about tunneling.
"You should ignore the survivors who are really good at looping and go for less experience players who are easier targets."
That's the whole reason of tunneling being so effective in solo queue and why people are annoyed. Against tunneling, it's not your looping skill that matters, it's the looping skill of a newbie Claudette that the MMR decided would be your teammate this match.
1 -
This would only punish killers for doing their job. Even if they didn’t tunnel for a kill. This would absolutely break the balance.
0 -
Nothing will literally stop a killer who is dead set on chasing a specific person immediately after an unhook, but the new update to 10 seconds on 10% increased speed with Endurance does mean the survivor will be a lot more likely to get to a stronger tile for the resulting chase so the killer will lose some additional time in the process.
1 -
Well whatever it is suppose to do, tunneling has only increased since the recent patch. Baseline BT has already shown it hasn't made an impact, maybe it is time we try something else.
I agree that OTR is good, I run it every game, but baseline BT is a joke and an extra 5 seconds isn't going to change that.
1 -
Then that solidifies 2 things, being a good looper will help you to not be tunneled.. and it sounds like MMR is the main issue for better players.
0 -
Try to use this anti camping perk against Bubba and let me know how it goes.
0 -
Balance right now is already broken. Try to play solo queue as survivor and tell me if you manage to win more than 3/10 matches.
And yes I said this would be a meta change (and a healthy one) and likely need other changes.
0 -
I disagree, a whole 10 seconds of invincibility AND 110% movement speed will change a lot. But you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it! I just personally haven’t had an issue with being tunneled. I understand WHY killers do it sometimes (I’m a killer main), and yes it sucks; yes I have died to it; but I have also held killers for all the gens and everybody got out which is a win to me. But I know it is frustrating. The only time I truly came stand tunneling is when a double range/recharge nurse does it. 😂
0 -
It's funny that you say "THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING U CAN DO ABOUT TUNNELING" and "they can't fix tunneling", cause tunneling should and could be fixed easily.
One way to fix it is by blinding the killer when he hits a survivor that has recently been unhooked.
Give the survivor about a 30 second status effect after he's unhooked that stops when the survivor performs a conspicuous action. This will prevent killers from just waiting out the timer and will give the survivor a lot of time to work with.
That status effect gives the survivor the current BT effect and also blinds the killer in case the killer hits the survivor. In order to stop survivors from trying to tank hits for their teammate with this, make the killer be able to pick up the survivor if he's close to him, sort of like the tombstone range for Myers.
Also in order to prevent killers from abusing this and insta-picking up survivors, the killer is not able to pick up the survivor if he's 3 meters away or more from another survivor.
Voilla, tunneling got fixed.
0 -
Then that sounds like a bubba issue. You still will be able to knock gens out with a prolonged hook.
0 -
Ehh it’s pretty balanced. I probably escape 40-45% of my solo q matches (including hatch games) which is an acceptable rate.
0 -
The problem with basekit BT is the fact that it's counting on the killer to 'wait out' the 10 seconds (or 5 seconds now), same goes with OTR, they're designed to dissuade killers from going after a survivor that has just been hooked.
However, in practice, that does not work. If a killer wants to tunnel you, they'll instantly hit you off hook, therefore, doesn't matter whether you had a 5, 10 or 40 seconds BT, it is instantly cancelled and the killer now can go after you again.
I'm not sure what would be the way to counter tunneling like that.
1 -
Well I try to not tunnel and camp cause then you get entity hungers.
0 -
Not against Bubba, you have to be within 6m of hook to activate this perk. Yes, it is a bubba issue, but this is why it's hard to balance the game because there will always be a killer that will ignore or take advantage of that 'balance' (aka nurse with the new Wesker perk that got nerfed)
0 -
That's the whole point of fixing tunneling, TO MAKE THE KILLER NOT ABLE TO TUNNEL YOU ANYMORE.
You come to a discussion about how to fix something and keep screaming that there's nothing you can do about it
1 -
Increasing base Gen regression to .50 charges per second
0 -
Let me flex my concept making skills and fix camping and tunneling real quick (not really).
Here's how I'd "fix" tunneling base-kit wise:
- Every unique Hook grants you a Token up to a maximum of 4
- 2 Tokens will be lost every time you Hook the same Survivor in a row (can go into negative Tokens, but it won't go into negative regression)
- Each Token increases the amount of progress lost upon kicking a Generator by 2.5%, up to a maximum of 10% (with base-kit, it would be 12.5%)
- Upon getting unhooked, a timer of 60 seconds starts
- If the Killer grabs or picks you up while the timer is active, stun them for 3 seconds and escape their grasp
- The timer deactivates upon a Conspicuous Action and when the Exit Gates are powered
This would give Killers a reason to go for multiple Hooks and punish them for tunneling.
For camping, I'd:
- Remove Hook Grabs
- If the Killer remains within 12 Meters of the Hook after 10 seconds, the Killer's Aura will be revealed to all Survivors for as long as they remain nearby (overrides Insidious)
Killer Perks (tunneling):
Barbecue And Chili
- Each unique Hook grants you a Token, up to a maximum of 2/3/4
- Each Token grants you the Haste (10%) Status Effect at the start of a chase for 0.5/1/2 seconds
Pop Goes The Weasel
- Increases the amount of progress lost upon kicking a Generator by 1.5%/2%/2.5% (with 4 unique Hooks, that'd be 25%)
- Pop Goes The Weasel is only active when there are no hooked Survivors
For camping, Call Of Brine, Overcharge and Eruption would need reworks to have them reward 3-Genning and camping less, but I can't think of anything right now.
Survivor Perks (tunneling):
Decisive Strike
- Increases the base-kit timer by 10/15/20 seconds
- Increases the Stun duration by 1.5 seconds
Camping:
Kindred
- Kindred's Aura reveal now has a range of 16/20/24 Meters
- If the Killer was within 16/20/24 Meters of a hooked Survivor for 10 seconds, all Survivors within 16/20/24 Meters of the same hooked Survivor will be granted the Endurance Status Effect until the Survivor gets unhooked
- This effect will be disabled once the Exit Gates have been powered
That's all I can think of right now
Post edited by ThatOneDemoPlayer on0 -
The 3v1 will happen every game, unless all survivors escape, that's kind of too harsh.
Maybe if "Desperation" would give the survivors a debuff similar to object of obsession too it would make it more balanced.
In a way it's a good idea to switch up the way the game is played depending if it's a 3v1 or 2v1
They already do this in 1v1 since it becomes a whole different game, with both the survivor and the killer needing to find the hatch, it feels like a new mini game-mode.
0 -
I’m not allowed to discuss because I disagree with you? Lol it’s the game forums dawg, relax. You’re asking to give a survivor invincibility because he got unhooked. What if the survivor doesn’t do ANYTHING after being unhooked. Do they just stay invincible for the rest of the match?.. you see what I’m saying? You cannot fully get rid of tunneling. You can discourage it by things like basekit BT and speed, but you cannot do away with it.
0 -
I could get behind this!
0 -
A lot of things don't have accepted metas associated with them because players can't communicate in-game, there's no competitive rank system for a meta to trickle down from, and playstyles are often mismatched in the same lobby.
Players need to split single gens in a 3v1 and forgo teammate healing, but very rarely does that happen. A 3v1 almost always completely stalls a game and results in a 4k because players constantly cycle healing, doubling a gen they can't finish, and rescuing.
2v1s are pretty tilting when the hooked player struggles on hook for the whole timer and essentially guarantees a 4k rather than giving the teammate a chance at hatch
1 -
The issue to me is, bhvr set win conditions as escape/kill where previously the win condition was whatever we as players decided it to be. MMR needs to include more stats in it. kills/escapes are great stats to track. But they should not be the only stat tracked for matchmaking.
Camping/Tunneling amped up hard after mmr went live. clearly it's b/c bhvr set an official win condition and now the community acts surprised killers are doing what they need to do for kills over hooks.
1 -
Of course you could, I have the best ideas
0 -
I can tell you from experience most killers plan on tunneling from the start. I have had several games where I was chased for 5 gens only to get downed by NoED. I have also had games where I was tunneled for 5 gens and escaped. While some killers use tunneling strategically when it is there only option. Most killers plan on doing it from the start, because they know it is the path of least resistance. Unfortunately for them sometimes they find the best player on the team first, and end up looking like a fool.
0 -
I disagree with this. A smart killer would not tunnel someone who is good at looping. A stubborn killer (like a lot of killers) would want to tunnel you out of the game. Especially if you're in solo q and your teammates are not efficient on gens.
0 -
+30% is not that harsh imo and can be compensated with killer buffs, personally I think the number of pallets on the map should be reduced. This game needs buff to gen speed in 3v1, almost every time a 3v1 situation with 2 or more gens left is a guaranteed loss. Then you're just sitting around awkwardly hoping your teammates will die first.
The major issue with this kind of changes is that now people might not feel incentivized to help their teammates, you'll see some people think "Better let this noob die on hook since he's incompetent and that way I get the +30%".
1 -
What bugs me off about the most ways people try to "fix" it, is that they assume that the killer wants to play the game efficiently.
Giving him bonuses for not tunneling, will not stop tunneling, as it is still better to get rid of a survivor than any small buff you get to kicking a gen or whatever.
A 3 second stun after picking up is not enough for the killer to lose that survivor. If he wants he can still go after him after the stun.
The killer literally needs to lose any sense of where the survivor went in order for tunneling to stop. That's why it's called tunneling after all, cause you know where he went and can follow him.
I believe blinding the killer solves this the best. A blind killer can't tell where the unhooked survivor went.
Now the only weird part is how do we choose to blind the killer.
We could blind the killer automatically when any unhook event happens, and make the blind last longer depending on how close the killer is to the hook and whether he's facing it or not.
We could blind the killer when he hits the unhooked survivor (letting the survivor still have the BT in it's current form), but that would be problematic in the end game, so maybe remove the blind when the gates are powered ?
We could also blind the killer while also letting him down the survivor ( but making the survivor crawl faster, recover faster, be able to recover while crawling, leave no pools of blood, and have iron will)
There's plenty of options that don't rely on the killer being a nice guy
0 -
When someone tries to bring up a solution, and you come in saying that there can't be a solution, it is not called disagreeing, it is being negative and at the same time useless to the conversation.
0 -
Very good points.
That's what I'm trying to achieve with this thread.
Bringing up ideas, discussing the ideas, and polishing the ideas in order to make them viable.
A fix for what you just said would be to only activate the +30% if a survivor got hooked 3 times, or Mori-ed. Now, letting someone just die won't give you the bonus
1 -
Tunneling will always exist, no matter what and however much you try to stop it.
The only way to fully stop tunneling is by removing Hooks
0 -
How will tunneling still happen if the Killer gets blinded ?
0 -
Killers (and Survivors) have something called ears that they can use to track Survivors, even while blinded
0 -
Because I’m challenging your point?😂 I’m not being negative, I’m being realistic.
0 -
This would be abused. So now the survivor is invincible to being downed, but can force a body block and blind the killer so he can’t chase anybody else? Do you realize how abusable that is?
0 -
Not if the blind lasts longer, or if the survivor makes no grunt sounds after he gets hit.
See ? If you thought a bit about it, you could have came out with a solution to your problem which was the sounds.
0 -
You're not challenging any point my dude.
Coming out in a thread with people that try to find solutions, and providing no solutions yourself, and no arguments about how the solutions provided by others don't work doesn't mean you're challenging something.
You're just being hard-headed
0 -
god im just imagining the body blocking survivors blocking a doorway or gap so I can't walk through to chase the unhooker, and I get blinded after hitting them, losing the two people.
would possibly throw my monitor out the window
1 -
I literally provided solutions for all your problems on a post in the first page of this thread, but I guess you didn't bother to read.
See? You don't try to find solutions, you try to find problems, without providing any way to fix to them. That's such a negative way to think.
But here it is for you again :
" Give the survivor about a 30 second status effect after he's unhooked that stops when the survivor performs a conspicuous action. This will prevent killers from just waiting out the timer and will give the survivor a lot of time to work with.
That status effect gives the survivor the current BT effect and also blinds the killer in case the killer hits the survivor. In order to stop survivors from trying to tank hits for their teammate with this, make the killer be able to pick up the survivor if he's close to him, sort of like the tombstone range for Myers.
Also in order to prevent killers from abusing this and insta-picking up survivors, the killer is not able to pick up the survivor if he's 3 meters away or more from another survivor. "
To this I would also add that in order for the Killer not to be able to insta-pick up someone as soon as he gets unhooked and abuse this you could disable the pick-up feature in the first 2 seconds after someone gets unhooked.
Now I believe any problem is pretty much fixed.
0 -
check the post above
0 -
If you thought about it, you'd realize I don't want the base-kit DS, nor the DS Perk, to let the Survivor walk free with no counterplay after getting tunneled.
You could just use a Flashlight and blind the Killer after stunning them if you want free escapes after getting tunneled
0
