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I play both survivor and killer. Prove thyself needs a heavy nerf and hyperfocus can't go live
I don't care what the streamers say about optimal play involving splitting up, prove thyself has been broken for years and the current emphasis on slowing down gens only emphasizes how difficult it is to play against.
Multiple survivors running prove thyself means that tunneling is the only way to keep gens at a reasonable speed. If there are four survivors and two of them are running prove thyself, gens pop near-instantaneously.
Proposed change: Increases your repair, healing, exit gate opening, and cleansing speed by 5% for each survivor within 10m of you. If no survivors are within 10m of you, reduce those speeds by 7%
I'm also very worried about Hyperfocus from a killer perspective. When playing as a survivor, I was managing to reduce my gen times by at least a third with a hyperfocus-centered build, and that's without a toolbox. Toolboxes result in more skill checks, which gives hyperfocus even more power.
Proposed change: Only functions with actual great skill checks, ignoring the bonus provided by Stakeout. Does not function if using a toolbox. Scoring a good skill check while you have at least 1 token of hyperfocus downgrades the skill check to a failure.
Hyperfocus is a really fun perk, and I love the idea of survivors who are really skilled at skill checks actually getting properly rewarded for that. But its current iteration is easy to abuse, and it's a drastic step backward since we JUST slowed gens down.
Comments
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Saying Prove Thyself is OP, when its only really good on pushing specific gens, not gens in general, proves to me you don't play survivor enough.
3 survivors on 3 gens at the same time can finish 3 gens in 90 seconds, assuming they all spawn next to seperate gens.
3 survivors on (1 gen+prove Thyself)*3 means that 3 gens get finished in 105 seconds. That's already a loss of 15 seconds, excluding the additional time it takes to go from gen to gen.
Prove Thyself is not an issue. Thanatophobia alone is more than enough to fully counter the increased speed of Prove Thyself.
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the main difference, is the killer has substantially more time to push people off those gens and get some regress going. On a lot of maps, 2 survivors + prove will finish a gen faster than a killer can cross the map (ormond, crow, red forest). I run prove with my buddy and we always hit gens together. We can often get 2 gens atleast cranked out before the killer even patrols past those gens.
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Yeah, but that's more on the killer not pushing you off the gen. That still means you've been working on a gen for 46 seconds.
Besides, it's not the killers job to prevent all gens from popping. It's the killers job to kill all survivors before they escape. Losing gens isn't an issue untill it's the last gen.
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I swear, people that think prove thyself should be nerfed, are the same killers running 4 gen regression perks. They get upset because they never had a chance to kick the gen xD.
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Yes obviously, gens are going to pop. But Im speaking from a 2 man - 3 man Swf.
Me and my buddy knocking out gens together while the killer is distracted with the other 2 is almost too effective. We are both very well at looping so even if he does pressure us, one of us takes chase and the other finishes the gen. Often times we bang through 3-4 gens just ourselves.
I will say it also depends on the quality of teammates we get. We are higher mmr so it usually isn’t an issue, but sometimes a new player will slip through and interrupt the progress with a 10 second chase, etc. But price is extremelyyyy strong when partnered with SWF.
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Thana is a dead perk the 2, 4 or 6% isn't even worth it. The 20% will last only seconds.
Prove thyself hasn't ever been an issue hasn't gotten any buffs in years if your finding it really problematic just start running that Legion perk discordant. Either they stop working together on gens or let the killer come and pressure 2 survivors.
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So, you are proposing a perk that gives less benefit than Leader (which gives 25% speed to actions not including repairing generators) which ALSO has a detriment for 75% of most matches? How is this anything but the literal worst perk in the game, killer or survivor?
By bringing this perk, one of the 4 perks the survivors get to bring to try to help them escape, they get to shave 2.5 seconds off a single gen if they work on it with another survivor? 50.42 seconds with your proposed Prove Thyself vs 52.94 seconds without your proposed Prove Thyself.
In exchange for this OBVIOUSLY OP buff, if they aren't near someone they now take 96.3 seconds to finish a gen alone? Plus additional time to cleanse a totem, or open a gate, or heal themselves. Honestly, who would ever bring this perk unless they were going for Adept Dwight?
If I'm doing my math wrong here, or if I'm missing something, please enlighten me.
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We are still on about Prove Thyself?
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Maybe behavior should have structured the game differently. Maybe if they made an objective other than repairing gens then I wouldn't feel forced to run 4 slowdown/regression perks.
Every killer perk is in theory supposed to ultimately prevent you from completing your objective. 90% of the objective is repairing generators, so stopping survivors from repairing generators is the top priority. If you can't repair the generators, it doesn't matter how good you are at a chase.
Idk why survivor mains whine and scream about killers running the most useful perks. Running anything other than slowdowns is making a bet that the survivors will act a certain way.
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If you and your buddy are cranking out two gens before the killer can patrol those gens in early game, you would have saved time just doing both gens separate.
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i don't care enough to do the math, my point is it should be put in the garbage because I'm tired of how much use I get out of it as survivor and how it ruins my killer games.
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Your math is wrong.
2 people on gen without prove = 52.94 seconds.
2 people on gen with prove = 45 seconds roughly. As you get a 15% increase.
3 people - 32 seconds.
4 people - 28 seconds.
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My math is with the proposed 5% from the discussed nerf. Not with current Prove Thyself.
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We gave the killer 45 seconds on each gen to push us off. Rather than a minute and a half. Point is, killer often times does not have time to break them off on some maps.
Im not saying prove needs a nerf, I don’t have an issue with it as a killer main.. just arguing that prove is indeed strong.
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Ahh my mistake!
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Eh, I think Prove Thyself is fine.
~53 seconds to two man a gen
~46 seconds to two man a gen with Prove Thyself. This give about a 7 second time save which only comes from negating the efficiency penalty. It's not a raw time save and is less efficient then doing solo gens by 1 second per gen.
For reference, a base brown toolbox with no add-ons saves around 5 seconds. Yellow is close to 7 and a commodious is around 11. Again, no add-ons.
Prove Thyself is useful for knocking out a troublesome gen or hurting a 3-gen strat. A good and useful perk but hardly OP and deserving of a nerf.
Hyperfocus could use some tuning down though.
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Then maybe, the matchmaking is off, giving you teammates that are too high MMR compared to the killer, or giving you a low MMR killer that got screwed over.
Or option 3: the killer relied heavily on camping and tunneling to reach higher mmr, and now can't handle high MMR survivors who are much better at chase.
There are few perks that I would say are amazingly balanced. Prove Thyself is one of the perks that give quite a big reward if used properly while not really punishing the opponent. There are vanilla mechanics that are much stronger than Prove Thyself to a point that highly efficient survivors rarely run Prove Thyself to get rid of gens. Grey toolboxes are better than Prove Thyself and you can get multiple in 1 match without running any perk or item.
If there is any perk that helps speed up gens that I am worried about, it's Built To Last. 2 full extra commodious toolboxes? That's much more worrying than any gen progression perk.
That's not even talking about the power of certain medkits give towards genprogression. 1 quick heal can add 20 seconds to a chase. That's 20 seconds per survivor on 3 seperate gens. That's on top of the 15 second save when Prove Thyself is being used. So a single medkit can buy 35 more seconds over a single prove thyself.
Seriously, Prove Thyself isn't that big of a deal.
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Man, Survivor's really aren't allowed to have half-decent perks.
PT is fine.
I am a little surprised Hyperfocus went through unchanged. It could probably use some fine tuning.
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If Prove Thyself is a problem for you and you want to counter it I recommend you to use Discordance, then you will know when 2 or more survivors are on the same gen.
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I'll have to see once hyperfocus comes out, but it seems like it is hard for an average survivor to get use out of. You can maybe get a groove going once you have your stacks of stake out with it, but getting great skill checks consistently in a row as the speed of the skill check increases doesn't sound like a ggez win. We'll see though, I haven't actually used the perk myself so maybe it will need to be brought back a bit, it just seemed like a high skill perk to me.
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Prove thyself is strong but balanced. No problems here.
Hyperfocus is a problem though. Even a brown toolbox with some charge add ons can allow 1 survivor to finish a gen in like 50 seconds or so with this perk.
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Prove Thyself doesn't need a nerf.
Sounds like Hyperfocus would be okay if it didn't work with toolboxes.
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I ask any killer who thinks Prove Thyself is OP, did you run Discordance, and if no why not? If PT is this vast impossible threat to overcome, why not run what essentially is its hard counter? To anyone saying because the map is too big that sounds more like a problem of maps than PT, and I would agree with that assessment.
Overall the complaint of PT to me falls flat, and it is the opposite of the problem. When survivors group up and are interrupted they lose far more gen seconds than when solo-ed gens get interrupted. The problem is when you don't know where survivors are, or know where survivors are and cannot interrupt them. When I play killer the worst feeling is 3 different gens popping within 10s of each other.
Edit: Also to address Hyperfocus I agree with the no toolbox change. Toolboxes have 5x skillcheck rate, so any problems with too many skill checks are moreso a problem with the combo.
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